W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

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Vertigo 7
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 21:53

this is freaking cool... so simple, why didn't they do this sooner? can't tell you how many times this would have come in handy...

https://i.imgur.com/1WzpBWL.png

So far, everything is going smoothly. Only thing that doesn't seem to be working correctly is pinning things to the start menu, but likely a bug, though the "All apps" and searching by name still work as expected. Still, so far everything I've thrown at it thus far is working just as it did in 10 and the migration was no headache at all... just a few reboots, login, done.

Anywho, gonna let it bake for a short while and i'll be back with my experiences with this first round of the insider release.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by red assassin » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 21:53
this is freaking cool... so simple, why didn't they do this sooner? can't tell you how many times this would have come in handy...

https://i.imgur.com/1WzpBWL.png
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:54

red assassin wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 21:53
this is freaking cool... so simple, why didn't they do this sooner? can't tell you how many times this would have come in handy...

https://i.imgur.com/1WzpBWL.png
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
Wow, you're right. Wasn't even aware they released that... but still glad it's being included and default for W11...

as far as 3rd party terminals, I knew they were out there but I've never looked into them since the stock terminals got the job done. Oh well, new for me and I'm sure i'll make use of it.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 05:19

So after the first good bit of the day dinking around with this, I've not run into anything show stopping. All the games I have recently played still run just fine, including X4. My VPN and MFA stuff still works as do all of my work related client apps, and virtualizations. So business as usual.

Some things will take some getting used to, which I'll detail below, but overall, it's Windows and they're not reinventing the wheel so if you're familiar with Windows 10, 11 likely won't be a shock to migrate to.

Bear in mind, this is based on the first dev preview release so the final GA release could be different.

Some things that have notably changed:

File explorer - gone are the copy/paste shortcuts from the right click menu. Instead they've been moved to the top bar and into a static menu if you right click and then click "show more options", which will bring up the same right click menu that's present in Windows 10. Along with that, the ribbon has been removed completely and the top portion of file explorer is dedicated completely to file management and sorting options.
Image

If you don't use keyboard shortcuts for copy/paste and such, I can see having quick access to them at the top of file explorer enabling you to perform those tasks slightly faster, but you will have to retrain yourself to use them.

The Start menu - There's plenty of pictures of the start menu out there and there's not a whole lot you can do to it, other than move the taskbar alignment to the left or center, which does move the start menu with it. The bug I mentioned in a previous post about not being able to pin items did resolve itself after a reboot so I can pin w/e I want to it. Tbh, I did get rather used to grouping apps in the start menu in Windows 10 and I had a layout I liked. I'm fine with the smaller icons in Windows 11 start menu, but perhaps there's an opportunity to optionally use grouping with the pinned stuff on the start menu.

The start menu doesn't grow if you pin a bunch of stuff to it. It seems to have a static height/width relative to the position of the start button. Instead, if you add a bunch of stuff it'll create additional pages to scroll through. Though pinning everything you install is likely unnecessary as there is still the "all apps" sub menu that lists everything alphabetically as it is in Windows 10.

Settings - lotta changes to settings but they've made it less cumbersome to navigate and have more logically grouped things together. Not gonna go over much of this in detail since most folks won't likely be spending a lot of time in there, but I will say it's snappy and easier to find what you're looking for.

Snapping - this is a feature I was looking forward to and I gotta say it's pretty neat. Hover your mouse over the maximize button on any app and it'll bring up predefined layouts that will fit whichever monitor dimensions you're using the app on and will highlight each section of the divided up window to pick an app to fit to it. But it doesn't stop there. Each of the horizontal and vertical boundaries created can be moused over and drug to dynamically resize apps on either side of it to meet your needs. As was mentioned in the unveiling announcement, all of those apps you've snapped are grouped together in the task bar so if you minimize any or all of them, you can hover over any of those applications and the grouping will be there next to the preview thumbnail and can restore them all back to the way you had them positioned.


For now, in conclusion, my experience has been fine thus far, minus one bug where the taskbar icons aren't populating on my other monitors despite that being enabled. I'll peruse the android app offerings in the coming days, if there's any in there I might be interested in running, just to see how that plays out. Everything seems stable, however, and feels faster... not that Windows 10 was at all slow for me, and it does look a bit nicer, to me at any rate. I'll be interested to see where this goes over the next few months.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 07:21

red assassin wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
Never heard of that before, so I just went and installed it. Interesting little tool. Vertigo, in Windows 11 is that what you get when you right-click the Start button instead of the Powershell option that's there in W10?

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 07:31

pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 07:21
red assassin wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
Never heard of that before, so I just went and installed it. Interesting little tool. Vertigo, in Windows 11 is that what you get when you right-click the Start button instead of the Powershell option that's there in W10?
yeah, windows terminal and windows terminal (admin)
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 30. Jun 21, 00:52

They fixed HDR! I just flipped it on for the first time in forever and it's clean, even with just text and SDR content. I'm gonna leave it on from now on...
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 09:28

Kinda interesting YT video why you shouldn't install Win11 if you do not meet requirements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6lu6IzIo8

IMO there is no pressure since Win10 will still be fully supported till October 2025 (and probably partially way beyond that, just like Win7 was).


Personally, I plan to update from Win10 to Win11 in spring, to let them iron any bugs and issues for a few months, just in case (again, no pressure, no FOMO, plus in case something would actually go wrong I don't have to go find the fixer in ****** atumn weather :D ).

Edit:
One of Win11 reviewes that poped-up in my YT feed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnlqKXijyY4

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 19:00

BTW, aparently the free upgrade from Win10 to Win11 will be available till mid 2022.

Still, who knows?
The same was suppose to be from Win7/8 upgrade to Win10, yet it was possible to do free update for very very long (or still is? I updated my old Laptop Win7 to Win10 like two years ago).

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by felter » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 23:32

Can you move the task bar to the left-hand side with the start button in the top left-hand corner, like the way I have it right now?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 03:16

not that I can see but I much prefer desktop width real-estate to height anyway so it doesn't bother me.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by alt3rn1ty » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 14:40

felter wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 23:32
Can you move the task bar to the left-hand side with the start button in the top left-hand corner, like the way I have it right now?
I have seen mention that it can now be moved to the top, but moving it to the side is still not an option, and any movement was only enabled by using a registry hack which was not recommended yet.
But there have been a lot of complaints via Windows Feedback Hub (circa 6000 or more so far), the more they get the more likely it will be that MS rethink this UI restriction.
Personally I wish for the same ability because vertical space is more important for me than horizontal space, so I will be giving feedback. Windows update has already let me know my machine is compatible for Win 11 so will adopt it when its ready.

I like that they have removed a lot of the crap that Windows 10 pushed on us, I'll be going for a clean install to get rid of the old cruft, and there is a youtube video showing side by side games performance comparison of Win 10 v Win 11, there really isn't much difference (news reports elsewhere were giving scare stories, just like recently fuel shortage panic buying in the UK was fuelled by news reports and not really necessary, the panic based on the news reports caused the problem).

Not really looking forward to a thousand and one more security foobars necessitating many windows updates again .. But thats Microsoft for you these days.
So much for Windows 10 being the last ever Windows, they just cant help trying to reinvent the wheel pushing old rope with a new coat of paint to keep sales to enterprise cash cows going :lol:
Fingers crossed they put more of the floating billions of cash into Security programmers and start getting it right, instead of the new ideas club injecting many new bugs. We can only but dream.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by felter » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:35

I moved the taskbar to the side several years ago as it was interfering with a programme I was using at the time, and I actually prefer it there. It actually doesn't matter though, as my computer is incompatible with win 11, but it runs everything I throw at it, so I see no reason to spend a thousand pounds just to run win 11. Anyway, I already know what my next computer is going to be, and it will definitely not run Win 11, a Raspberry Pi 4 Model B 4 GB version with an Argon ONE M.2 Raspberry Pi 4 Case with an Argon IR Remote, so I can create a new media player. :)
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Ezarkal » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43

felter wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:35
It actually doesn't matter though, as my computer is incompatible with win 11, but it runs everything I throw at it, so I see no reason to spend a thousand pounds just to run win 11.
I hear you there! I built my (once upon a time) monster a decade ago, and only had to update a few parts over the years to keep up.
It's starting to struggle a bit here and there, but beyond the loading times everything runs smoothly, so why change? :D
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Terre » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 08:59

Not sure if this has already been posted.
A link to keep an eye on, it does not cover the Intel and AMD CPU memory and cache issues.

Windows 11 known issues and notifications
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... ws-11-21H2

Windows® 11 Performance Variation in Certain Applications on Compatible AMD Processors
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-400
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 14:02

Terre wrote:
Fri, 8. Oct 21, 08:59
Not sure if this has already been posted.
A link to keep an eye on, it does not cover the Intel and AMD CPU memory and cache issues.

Windows 11 known issues and notifications
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... ws-11-21H2

Windows® 11 Performance Variation in Certain Applications on Compatible AMD Processors
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-400
No mention of Intel cache issues in either of those links. Not immediately seeing any mention of any issues with Intel CPUs and Windows 11 either from a general web search and I've not seen any performance issues on either of my intel devices.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 18:48

I read that, too. Windows has performance problems with newer AMD Zen 3 processors, specifically the ones with more cores (>=8).

:lol:
Windows only runs on a few platforms (if at all) anyway, and they don't even get that done correctly. Still in beta, eh ?

But, well, I run something reliable, why bother, just can't resist the urge to scoff :twisted:

:mrgreen:

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 18:53

Yes yes, I'm quite sure every development branch of the tinker toy OS has never once ever failed to run properly on certain hardware ever in the course of their code revisions.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 19:20

According to:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-and-M ... 990.0.html

a Windows fix for the cache latency problem is on the way.

Worth noting:
It is good to see both Microsoft and AMD finally acknowledging this problem. Windows 11 is a requirement to ensure proper scheduling with Intel's upcoming Alder Lake processors, so AMD processors taking a performance hit puts them at an unfair disadvantage in comparative benchmarks.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Terre » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 19:49

I can no longer find the mention of any issues affecting Intel, so maybe the article changed.
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