New PC

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jlehtone
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Re: New PC

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 13:33

Did LTT do any video when they did set up those boxes a year earlier about the cooling efficiency of the three modes?
BaronVerde wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 00:59
In order to have flow through the case we need some fans suck in, some fans blow out. Flow through the case inevitably trivially means dust inside, so we want to protect the intake fans with filters, specifically the ones on the bottom if the case is standing on the floor. Further details depend on the case and setup.
So it seems.

I have had something under the case to provide more airspace. This example has small blocks (even though it isn't on floor): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yg3dsM ... sp=sharing

Frankly, pictures of cases directly on fluffy carpet give a bad feeling.


The Nox Hummer Nexus has filters on top and side with magnets. Easy to take out and clean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_MwH6Zn3k
Filter at bottom does not look as easy: https://api.nox-xtreme.com/thumbnails/p ... ack_15.png

The front is closed with front fans drawing air from side slits of the front. There seems to be no filters or good place for one.

Fractal Define in my photo has a front door. There is front filter. With door closed the air flows from side slits just like in Hummer Nexus. The cooling improves, if the door is open (at slight cost of quietness.).

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Re: New PC

Post by BaronVerde » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 13:43

Ah, cool (pun), that's what was meant when they said "magnetic". I already thought they confused magnetic and electrostatic, because I couldn't imagine how magnets attract dust. I mean other than from lying around :-)

The unfiltered intakes of the Nox aren't that optimal ... beginner's mistake :roll: But I can still stuff a cut out filter mat in the openings and fit the fans individually with filters.

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Re: New PC

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 14:58

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 23. Jul 21, 21:45
I'm pretty sure a dust filter will impede the airflow a fair bit less than a thick layer of dust all over your PC's internals. It's also easier, and less risky, to clean regularly. Personally I would always use filters where possible.
Prior to Christmas, I bought my first computer which came with magnetic dust filters, one on the top where the CPU radiator is, and a second at the front, sat on the inside of 2x240mm fans. - I can't begin to tell you how good they are, and just how easy to clean. - After seven months, the inside of my PC looks pristine, I mean not even one visible speck of dust, and all I have to do is remove and wipe down the two filters every few weeks, a job that takes a couple of minutes max.

Despite having a 3070, 3 internal drives and another expansion card on my (full size) MoBo, I see internal resting temperatures all-but identical to ambient. I do have a case maxed out with additional fans, but I'd never dream of having a case that wasn't clad in dust filters now.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Tamina
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Re: New PC

Post by Tamina » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 15:26

BaronVerde wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 13:01
That's interesting. I know from architecture that it is the laminar flow that cools pretty effectively by removing heat, while turbulent flow can collect heat better from a surface ...
Real laminar flow is insulating, terrible for heat transfer. I guess in architecture the goal is to exchange air in a room and not to cool furniture. That said, you will never ever reach laminar flow in a PC case. It is hard enough to create in dedicated wind tunnels that were built just for this :)

Maybe intake fans behind a filter are bad because they are literally sucking the dust through the filters, with all their force. I wonder if it is better to have bulged filters with a bigger surface area to compensate for that, while at the same time mitigating friction at the filters.
Last edited by Tamina on Sat, 24. Jul 21, 16:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New PC

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 16:02

I find that doing a bit more frequent housework (eg vacuuming and dusting) in the room where the PC is does absolute wonders for reducing the numbers of dust bunnies both inside and outside the PC. Not eating at the PC and even not scratching your head too much while working (difficult with some apps, I know) is great for that too! (Close proximity of hairy pets to computers is probably a bad idea too.) :D
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Re: New PC

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 17:12

Tamina wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 15:26
Maybe intake fans behind a filter are bad because they are literally sucking the dust through the filters, with all their force. I wonder if it is better to have bulged filters with a bigger surface area to compensate for that, while at the same time mitigating friction at the filters.
I had Fractal Define R3, where front filter is held with screws; more laborious to take out for cleaning. The fans were right behind filter.
I tried to use Gentle Typhoon fans. Alas, they were "thicker" (than Fractal's) and thus their center did scrub the filter. Not ok.

I did end up moving fans behind the drive cage (and attach with zip ties). The fans did draw air (hopefully) through filter and through the drive cage. There were thus over 12 cm between filter and fan. A downside was that there were then 25 mm less space for graphics card; had to choose from short ones.

Was that better or worse for cooling and/or dust? Did not measure. I do agree with Alan that frequent housework is a key.
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BaronVerde
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Re: New PC

Post by BaronVerde » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 18:10

Danger with filters inside of the box is that they partly just turn around the inside air instead of getting fresh one from outside. Drive cages tend to be somehwat holey, and getting the fan airtight behind it I can imagine isn't easy.

Anyway, I have ordered 3 filters for the intake fans.

Of course I allways take my housekeeping chores serious ! Well, almost. I mean mostly. When I find the time ...

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Re: New PC

Post by Tamina » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 18:28

Alan Phipps wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 16:02
I find that doing a bit more frequent housework (eg vacuuming and dusting) in the room where the PC is does absolute wonders for reducing the numbers of dust bunnies both inside and outside the PC.
Good advice. We should all get an Alan :D Are you Roomba compatible? :D

That said, a vacuum bot with HEPA filters does wonders as well but I think having an optimal fan combination to reduce maintenance is always a good idea ^^

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Re: New PC

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 18:33

"We should all get an Alan" I think I have a new fan. <I'll get my coat.>
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Re: New PC

Post by BaronVerde » Sat, 24. Jul 21, 19:46

Tamina wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 18:28
... reduce maintenance is always a good idea ^^
Precisely ! 8)
Alan Phipps wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 18:33
I have a new fan.
An intake fan, to be precise :-)

... on second thought, cleaning up is always exhausting ...

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Re: New PC

Post by Gavrushka » Sun, 25. Jul 21, 09:15

Tamina wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 18:28
Alan Phipps wrote:
Sat, 24. Jul 21, 16:02
I find that doing a bit more frequent housework (eg vacuuming and dusting) in the room where the PC is does absolute wonders for reducing the numbers of dust bunnies both inside and outside the PC.
Good advice. We should all get an Alan :D Are you Roomba compatible? :D

That said, a vacuum bot with HEPA filters does wonders as well but I think having an optimal fan combination to reduce maintenance is always a good idea ^^
I'm a full time carer for someone with a badly compromised immune system, and part of creating a safer environment involves a pair of heavy duty air purifiers with HEPA filters. - Even though I have a similar vacuum cleaner, which I employ every other day, you'd be horrified by just how much crap the purifiers pull out of the air, with the prefilter for larger dust particles being the most visual indication. - I never really considered it previously, but I am sure the purifiers* go a long way to improving the pristine condition of my PC's innards.


*I run a pair of heavy duty Levoit purifiers, costing around £150 each, with filters costing a further £40.00, which are good for around 6 months if you remove the fluff/dust/hair build up on the prefilter each week. - Bonus is the filters even catch pollen so yay for allergy sufferers! (The pair are good for houses up to 200 square meters floor area with standard height ceilings.)
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: New PC

Post by BaronVerde » Sun, 8. Aug 21, 14:00

So, yesterday I picked everything up at the transportista's place and started assembling it. First of all, it was mentioned above that the case did not have filters on the front, but it actually does. Maybe a new series.

The only time I had to activate additional cerebral functionality (more than just turning a screwdriver) was the asembly of the processor cooler. To anyone like me trying this the first time, it is wise to do a dry assembly first to actually understand what's going on. Since there's considerable force involved and the parts are designed to fit different sockets and procesoor types when used this or that way, it might be that missing washers or plates facing the wrong side can lead to physical damage.

Now there are much less cables involved than before, they are all black and shrouded behind metal. It is a fine sight to behold :-)

Guys, question again: What monitor to choose ? Am thinking of 27", 1440p, 16:9, high contrast. What to expect of built in loudspeakers ? Probably less than from dedicated noiseproduction devices. Are there monitors with built in loudspeakers and aditional subwoofers ?

Cheers

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Re: New PC

Post by CBJ » Sun, 8. Aug 21, 14:20

BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 8. Aug 21, 14:00
Am thinking of 27", 1440p, 16:9, high contrast.
This is what I'd recommend, yes.
BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 8. Aug 21, 14:00
What to expect of built in loudspeakers ? Probably less than from dedicated noiseproduction devices. Are there monitors with built in loudspeakers and aditional subwoofers ?
I wouldn't bother with built in speakers. Get a sound bar if you don't want, or have space for, separate speakers, then you can upgrade that separately from the monitor as required.

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Re: New PC

Post by red assassin » Sun, 8. Aug 21, 14:58

I use a 34" 1440p curved ultrawide (specifically, this one: https://www.lg.com/hk_en/monitor/lg-34GN850-B) which is phenomenal, but failing that a 27" 1440p is what I'd pick as well. And yes, any built-in speakers on a monitor are going to be atrocious.
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Re: New PC

Post by AjRyder » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 07:56

Gavrushka wrote:
Thu, 10. Dec 20, 11:04
I can tell you the I7 10700K is absolutely superb. (I had a new PC delivered 2 days ago.)

There's a great site for comparing components and builds, userbenchmarks, and it'll let you see how the Ryzen compares against the I7, and likewise for different graphic cards and RAM modules.
The only trouble with this website is this... The reviews are biased it is fanboy-based. Which does not give you a fair comparison of the processors. It is just someone going ooooo get this processor because I have it and it is really good...
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Re: New PC

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 08:51

AjRyder wrote:
Tue, 10. Aug 21, 07:56
The only trouble with this website is this... The reviews are biased it is fanboy-based. Which does not give you a fair comparison of the processors. It is just someone going ooooo get this processor because I have it and it is really good...
So ignore the reviews and just look at the raw performance numbers?

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Re: New PC

Post by BaronVerde » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 10:03

Depends on the use case, but yes, I'd say in principle it is best ignored. The site seems to be an aggregate of PCs and configurations all out there and we can never know which configurations are behind the bars shown. I mean, it is not just the processor that defines a pc's performance. One would probably need a controlled environment and comparable build to determine which processor likes which tasks the most. But I am not an expert and I may be wrong !

For instance, my new build (with a Ryzen 7 5800X) does a basic scene in little path-tracer ~6 times faster than my old one (with an I7 6700). Or, it boots in 2-3 seconds. That's certainly not just the processor (wider threading, more cache, generally more instructions per cycle), there is also faster ram (3600Mhz compared to 2800), nvme disks pcie3 compared to good old SATA 7000rpm turntables, and of course a proud owner generally inclined to accept anything that meets their overblown expectations :-) (fanboy alarm going off)

-------------

I realized in my new PC that the fans of the AIO cooler are as loud as my vaccuum cleaner when there's calculation going on. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but nevertheless, I'll have to change them.

Saw an RX6700XT vga for 1200,- yesterday, and an RX6900XT for 1800,-. MSRP are 500,- and 650,- I think, so that's still a "thanks, but no thanks", I want an RX6800XT anyway. Hopefully it gets better towards the end of the year ...

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Re: New PC

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 12:40

BaronVerde wrote:
Tue, 10. Aug 21, 10:03
Depends on the use case, but yes, I'd say in principle it is best ignored. The site seems to be an aggregate of PCs and configurations all out there and we can never know which configurations are behind the bars shown.
Yeah, but given enough configurations, those errors will even out, so in a direct comparison between two processors the site gives a pretty good idea, IMHO. I wouldn't make it the only site I use for a buying decision, but it's certainly one data point worth looking at.

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Re: New PC

Post by Tamina » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 13:21

When AMD got comparable numbers to Intel, the website owner changed the rating-calculations so that Intel stayed on top (lowered Multithreading weight). When Ryzen got better in Singlethreading than Intel, the calculations were changed again, in a way that the flagship of AMD was worse then an older Intel i3 on that site.

When media reported about this, they went full victim mode and blamed an allgedly conspiracy on their social media, insulted reviewers and media. And in the aftermath they got banned on every reputable reviewer site, including the Intel subreddit https://amp.reddit.com/r/intel/comments ... om_rintel/

The remains of this story can be still seen on the About page
https://www.userbenchmark.com/page/about
The site is completely anonymous btw.. Nobody knows who those so called "Scientists and Engineers" are.

It is probably better to keep a distance from this website if you want to have a productive discussion.

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Re: New PC

Post by BaronVerde » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 14:21

Guys, I realized that when I saturate all cores with heavy calculation cpu temperature jumps to 87°C. It actually jumps like in a few seconds, I would assume that there's some damping due to the cooler.

Is that healthy ?
Did I possibly make a mistake assembling the cooler ?

It's blazingly fast tho ...

Edit: Looks like it is a common observation and AMD waves temps up to 95°C for the 5800X aside ... (third party info, no official link found)

'nother Edit: Ok, it was the overclocking. I found a BIOS setting that limits the processor to its nominal frequeny and now temperature stays well around 55°C.

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