Coronavirus: COVID-19

Anything not relating to the X-Universe games (general tech talk, other games...) belongs here. Please read the rules before posting.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

BaronVerde
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed, 16. Dec 20, 21:26
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 17:56

@vertogo7 I wasn't referring to you personally, no need to get angry. The case was someobody postpones a vaccination against public advice, until it was too late, and yet still they postpone.

Here, the nurses that do the vaccinations don't ask, and there has not been a single case of any illness whatever from vaccinations, but 11 people have died so far, 4 of them during the current wave, 1 of them (an 87 year old lady) fully vaccinated. The rest is currently what has been dubbed "pandemic of the unvaccinated". What I say is, and I repeat: unvaccinated spread the virus mostly among themselves, but also back to the vaccinated. That makes their behaviour increasingly irresponsible. Are there any specific objections against that ? Bring 'em on :-)

I never said "don't ask a doctor", all I do is reiterate public and published knowledge. If you do actually have a condition that prohibits vaccination, than that is a completely different case and by all means, you must ask your doctor, I am in no position to question this and I don't !

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

Vertigo 7
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri, 14. Jan 11, 17:30
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 18:28

My point is that no one should follow medical advice because "so and so said I should". Your physicians should always ALWAYS be consulted for anything that impacts your health. That's their job, to provide the best possible information as it relates to you and the condition of your body and recommend a course of action. They're the ones that understand your health and are in the best possible position to determine if there's any risks to your health. Even if their recommendations match some rando from the internet, rando from the internet is not your doctor, if they're even a medical practitioner at all, and your doctor is the one that should be making that call.

Do I wanna see people vaccinated? Absolutely. But I also am not gonna shove that down people's throats. Why? I'm not a doctor, much less their doctor. I'll say "go talk to your doctor about getting vaccinated" and that's all I'll say.

Chances are, however, these hillbillies haven't even spoken to their doctor. Demon sperm doctor told the orange one a year ago that they didn't need to be vaccinated so they made their mind up then. Jewish space laser congressperson met with the hillbillies in Alabama a day or two ago and practically told them to shoot health care workers that come knock on their door. If these are the people you're trying to reach, you're wasting your time.

Now, if you wanna talk about isolating them from the rest of us, that's a discussion I'll be all for having.
The Future is Progressive!
rebellionpac.com
Fight white supremacy, fight corporate influence, fight for the rights of all peoples!

BaronVerde
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed, 16. Dec 20, 21:26
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:24

A, we're not that far apart :-) Yep, when people endanger their fellows, don't see reason, shield themselves with excuses or demand personal freedom on the expense of that of other's, should they be pushed by society ? If so, how gentle shall the push be ?

This is heftily discussed, partly with religious vigour.

In my opinion, in a first step they should be pushed, not necessarily be forced. For instance excluded from certain events, pay more into some public health fund or personal health insurance, be tagged and traced so that in case of new infections people can be warned, or isolated when in contact. I mean, if they have cellphones they can be traced anyway, with varying accuracy, so where's the problem ? The unvaccinated do cause bodily (they are more infectuous) and mental (I'm quite personally missing my good night beer down in the harbour bar since quite some time now, and that's a pain in the neck and no mistake) damage and they restrict the freedom of others (mine) and cause deaths (the elder lady here that died from an outbreak despite being vaccinated and had hoped to live some more).

I might be a little apodictic, but really, and that's an opinion, who's not vaccinated by now either didn't get the right turn intellectually or has no access to vaccines, the latter being more excusable than the first. </opinion>

You may all beat me up now for that insolence :-)
Last edited by BaronVerde on Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:29, edited 2 times in total.

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

User avatar
felter
Posts: 6961
Joined: Sat, 9. Nov 02, 18:13
xr

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by felter » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:28

So I was looking at the numbers for the UK today, and it says 104 deaths and -26 people in hospital then I thought the people in hospital number is a little bit misleading, it looks good but when you think on it, those 104 dead are no longer in hospital, the actual number would be 78 new patients in hospital. For it to really be good, the number of deaths has to be lower than the number of people in hospital. Just a random thought on how things aren't always what they may appear.

They are also saying that 75% of the UK population has had their second jab, who is this 25%, it can't be many adults as most under 17 haven't been jabbed at all so when you remove them from the number it goes down quite a bit and if the numbers are pretty low how come so many are getting infected, the numbers just don't add up. :gruebel:
Florida Man Makes Announcement.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.

BaronVerde
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed, 16. Dec 20, 21:26
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:39

There are 25 health workers here who have rejected the vaccine. They will be put in positions where they pose the least danger, to their patients and colleagues as well as to themselves. So, in this case, society and the specific environment can handle the numbers.

The hospital chief is cited with:
We know that it does not prevent infection 100%, but it does prevent future complications. It is unacceptable that a person who is committed to science should voluntarily refuse vaccination, causing harm not only to themselves but also to the people they serve.
"it" meaning putting them where they cause least damage.

Source:
https://eltime.es/isla-bonita/34845-coe ... ibles.html
Last edited by BaronVerde on Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:49, edited 4 times in total.

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 51743
Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by CBJ » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:45

felter wrote:
Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:28
They are also saying that 75% of the UK population has had their second jab, who is this 25%, it can't be many adults as most under 17 haven't been jabbed at all so when you remove them from the number it goes down quite a bit and if the numbers are pretty low how come so many are getting infected, the numbers just don't add up. :gruebel:
The numbers add up fine if you read what they actually say. It quite clearly states here that it's 75% of people adults, i.e. people over the age of 18. Those under the age of 18 aren't counted in that figure at all, which admittedly makes less sense now that they have started offering jabs to 16 and 17 year olds. Bear in mind, however, that if they changed that metric, you'd be complaining that they had moved the goalposts. :P

Mailo
Posts: 1901
Joined: Wed, 5. May 04, 01:10
x3

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Mailo » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 21:08

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:45
felter wrote:
Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:28
They are also saying that 75% of the UK population has had their second jab, who is this 25%, it can't be many adults as most under 17 haven't been jabbed at all so when you remove them from the number it goes down quite a bit and if the numbers are pretty low how come so many are getting infected, the numbers just don't add up. :gruebel:
The numbers add up fine if you read what they actually say. It quite clearly states here that it's 75% of people adults, i.e. people over the age of 18. Those under the age of 18 aren't counted in that figure at all, which admittedly makes less sense now that they have started offering jabs to 16 and 17 year olds. Bear in mind, however, that if they changed that metric, you'd be complaining that they had moved the goalposts. :P
Keep in mind the UK is pretty much the only country that calculates percentages like this (adults only), probably to keep up the fiction that it is leading vaccination rates in Europe due to Brexit, when it is actually currently currently in 9th place both for people fully vaccinated and for people who got at least one dose, 6th place for doses per capita, and a whopping 31st place for jabs per day. (Source: The Guardian, which got their data from here).
Switching to calculating it for everyone instead of for adults only would be the as much "goal post moving" as switching to the metric system would be :P

Pretty much related to this, why is it that it is just fine for an MP to blatantly lie in Parliament in the UK, but if other MPs call out the lie, they are ejected from the session?
As a personal service to all who try to keep up with my professional work:
[ external image ]

My script: Shiploot v1.04 ... loot shipwrecks, collect different loot parts and upgrade your ships!
Mein Skript: Schiffswracks looten v1.04 ... Durchsuche Schiffswracks, sammle Lootteile und verbessere Deine Schiffe!

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 51743
Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by CBJ » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 21:55

Mailo wrote:
Wed, 11. Aug 21, 21:08
Switching to calculating it for everyone instead of for adults only would be the as much "goal post moving" as switching to the metric system would be :P
I didn't say it was moving the goalposts; I said that felter would be complaining that they were moving the goalposts. You needed to have read the thread history to understand why I said that. ;) And, um, we do use the metric system for most things.
Mailo wrote:
Wed, 11. Aug 21, 21:08
Pretty much related to this, why is it that it is just fine for an MP to blatantly lie in Parliament in the UK, but if other MPs call out the lie, they are ejected from the session?
Not really on topic, but it's called parliamentary privilege, and it's not uncommon. Again, I'm not saying it's right; just explaining how it came about. Given that it's politicians we're talking about, I doubt it makes any difference to the amount of lying that goes on. :)

User avatar
felter
Posts: 6961
Joined: Sat, 9. Nov 02, 18:13
xr

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by felter » Thu, 12. Aug 21, 00:07

CBJ there is no need to being so aggressive with me about it, as it was more of a question on my behalf than anything else as I had read it as 75% of the UK population, which just didn't make any sense.
Florida Man Makes Announcement.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.

User avatar
fiksal
Posts: 16569
Joined: Tue, 2. May 06, 17:05
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by fiksal » Thu, 12. Aug 21, 04:50

Tamina wrote:
Sun, 8. Aug 21, 19:35
Sometimes I can't follow if Russians (in general) do or do not trust their government now.
Simple answer they do not.


Long answer:

But, they (lots of people) also don't trust "the west", as it's always out to destroy them.

Every thing government pushed onto people is always looked at from a point of "what's in it for them".

In case of Covid, doesn't help that the government simultaneously took multiple contradictory points.
- Covid is not real or not gonna be an issue
- It is real, but still not an issue
- US numbers are fake
- US manufactured the virus that's killing everyone
- Russia made the vaccine first, and it's most effective
- The west conspired to block Russian vaccine
- Businesses must close for 2 weeks out of their own pocket to stop the virus
- Masks aren't necessary
- Everyone must take Sputnik vaccine or else!
- Hospitals aren't allowed to report Covid numbers
- Hospitals don't actually do Covid tests much anyways

and so on.

as the result people basically don't care, or hide.

some people wait for vaccine by Vector lab, which isn't affiliated with Moscow.


if you want to have one take away, a lot of things like this are done via a stick rather than a carrot, and sticks are usually given to morons. science is done elsewhere and it's at odds with nationalism
Gimli wrote:Let the Orcs come as thick as summer-moths round a candle!

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 51743
Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by CBJ » Fri, 20. Aug 21, 17:35

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 11. Aug 21, 19:45
Those under the age of 18 aren't counted in that figure at all, which admittedly makes less sense now that they have started offering jabs to 16 and 17 year olds.
As a quick update on this, as of yesterday the metric was updated to make it the percentage of everyone over the age of 16. I assume that if and when they start offering jabs to younger age groups here, they will adjust it again accordingly.

User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 8549
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 25. Aug 21, 15:35

I read recently that India created first DNA vacine for COVID:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57774294

Aparently this is the very first DNA vacine approved for human use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_vaccine


My very first though after months of hearing "mRNA is safe, it's not DNA" - hmm, what can go wrong, especially that it's an India.

User avatar
Terre
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 10483
Joined: Mon, 19. Dec 05, 21:23
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Terre » Wed, 25. Aug 21, 19:52

mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 25. Aug 21, 15:35
My very first though after months of hearing "mRNA is safe, it's not DNA" - hmm, what can go wrong, especially that it's an India.
That third arm may come in handy.
Open Rights Group - Is your site being blocked
Electronic Frontier Foundation - Online Censorship
The Linux Foundation - Let’s Encrypt
Check if your Email account has been pwned

BaronVerde
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed, 16. Dec 20, 21:26
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Fri, 27. Aug 21, 13:50

Almost 50% of COVID patients released from hospital report long covid smptoms after 1 year, like general fatigue, muscle weakness, headaches, shortness of breath. Some symptoms actually increae and worsen over time.

Press note:
https://time.com/6093164/long-covid-19-largest-study/

Study, to be published:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 4/fulltext

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

Redvers Ganderpoke
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue, 11. Sep 07, 12:38

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Fri, 27. Aug 21, 15:53

Daughter (17) had first jab yesterday. She's managed to avoid covid so far anyway (quite a few of her friends have had it).
A flower?

Cpt.Jericho
Posts: 4503
Joined: Mon, 17. Jul 06, 15:44
x3tc

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Cpt.Jericho » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 00:16

BaronVerde wrote:
Fri, 27. Aug 21, 13:50
Almost 50% of COVID patients released from hospital report long covid smptoms after 1 year, like general fatigue, muscle weakness, headaches, shortness of breath. Some symptoms actually increae and worsen over time.
The study is about less than 1300 people being discharged between Jan. to May 2020 in China. And of those about 50% report said long term symptoms.
What I couldn't find was the number of total covid patients in that area and period to put those 50% of less than 1300 into any context considering the risk of actually getting long covid.
Winner of 350 Mil class of X-Verse Fleet Fest Italiano
Boycotting Steam since 2003

BaronVerde
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed, 16. Dec 20, 21:26
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 01:11

Cpt.Jericho wrote:
Sat, 28. Aug 21, 00:16
The study is about less than 1300 people being discharged between Jan. to May 2020 in China. And of those about 50% report said long term symptoms.
What I couldn't find was the number of total covid patients in that area and period to put those 50% of less than 1300 into any context considering the risk of actually getting long covid.
The number is the sample size, people released from a specific Wuhan hospital (not all over China) who were willing to participate in the study and show up for two visits and be selected for for a physical examination to determine the severity of certain symptoms, e.g. lung function, endurance, physical strength, as well as partcipate in questionnaires. Of these, ~50% have long covid symptoms with varying degree.

The study does not say anything about absolute numbers of COVID cases in the Wuhan area, nor does it claim that these are all of the patients that were released from the hospital. It says 2469 COVID-19 patients were released in total in the time frame. It doesn't put released patients in relation to those that isolated at home and recovered without being hospitalized, or those parts of the population that didn't fall sick with COVID at all. But it describes in detail number and severity of long covid symptoms in the sample, and the differences to the control group after 12 months.

Using patients from a single hospital and locality reduces bias that might be introduced from varying quality of treatment, and possibly bias from social stratification (speculation mine).
The primary aim of this study was to comprehensively compare health consequences of COVID-19 patients who have been discharged from hospital between 6 months and 12 months after symptom onset. The secondary aim was to determine whether COVID-19 survivors had returned to a baseline health status 1 year after symptom onset compared with non-COVID-19 controls.
----------------

Out of memory, the risk of having long covid after falling sick was mentioned in other places before, and said to be ~15% of all COVID cases. But that general number doesn't include a detailed view on age, risk groups, any preconditions, etc. One would have to look that up elsewhere ...

And of course people being released from hospital after a COVID treatment are certainly in a worse shape than the average cases that never got hospitalized, no question.

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

Cpt.Jericho
Posts: 4503
Joined: Mon, 17. Jul 06, 15:44
x3tc

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Cpt.Jericho » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 01:48

BaronVerde wrote:
Sat, 28. Aug 21, 01:11
The study does not say anything about absolute numbers of COVID cases in the Wuhan area, nor does it claim that these are all of the patients that were released from the hospital.[...]
Then why did you say that almost 50% of released patients suffer from long covid?
baronVerde wrote: Almost 50% of COVID patients released from hospital report long covid smptoms after 1 year, like general fatigue, muscle weakness, headaches, shortness of breath. Some symptoms actually increae and worsen over time.
If i didn't knew any better, I would call that fearmongering.
Winner of 350 Mil class of X-Verse Fleet Fest Italiano
Boycotting Steam since 2003

BaronVerde
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed, 16. Dec 20, 21:26
x4

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 02:31

Cpt.Jericho wrote:
Sat, 28. Aug 21, 01:48
Then why did you say that almost 50% of released patients suffer from long covid?
Trivially, because the absolute number of COVID cases is not equal to the number of patients released from a COVID-treatment in hospital, the latter being far less than the former and their cases more severe than the population average. Thought that was intuitively clear and not in need of specific mention ...

The study says they are the first with such a large sample and control group, being statistically more relevant than similar work published before. We'll probably read more about long covid (COVID-19 hasn't been around for that long yet) as time goes by.

Code: Select all

  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

Cpt.Jericho
Posts: 4503
Joined: Mon, 17. Jul 06, 15:44
x3tc

Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Cpt.Jericho » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 02:54

The absolute number of cases is not trivial when you're trying risk assessment.
Winner of 350 Mil class of X-Verse Fleet Fest Italiano
Boycotting Steam since 2003

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic English”