Coronavirus: COVID-19

[mr.WHO]

I think that with already vacinated significant portion of the population, it would be good idea to start allow pople to choose their vacine:
1) The peculiar side affects or dangers are often for only one vacine and not for others.
2) AZ and J&J are "classic" vacines - if for some reason, people do not trust mRNA vacines.


To my suprise and this in unitended, in Poland you're already able to choose between:
1) If you officially register you get randomly selected vacine (most probably the two doze ones as J&J is almost exclusive for fast vacination points)
2) If you live in big city or on vacation, there are mobile vacination point, where you can get J&J without pre-registering


I myself got J&J, but it's due to lazyness - J&J was single dose and it took me like 20 minutes to get all paperwork process, while in normal registration, it had two weeks wait time for first doze and month wait between dozes.
Now you can pretty much register for a next day, but I still think J&J is more convinient and fast (You're fully protected before the time you would get a 2nd doze with 2 doze vacine).

Edit: Seems like EU just orderd 200 milion Novavax vacine, so soon there will be another option for "classic" vacine.

[Chips]

Every week there are stories in the media of yet another "fit, young, healthy adult wishes they'd believed in covid and taken the vaccine as they die in hospital". I don't think I'm ever going to understand those people... (some do believe in covid, just didn't think they'd get it. Or if they did, they'd be okay).

Then again at age 17 I did 100 miles an hour on the motorway in a rusty Ford Orion diesel - which vibrated as if it were mid-earthquake past 95mph and the dash shook violently at 100. Not once did i think "if anything goes wrong i'm dead", just slowed down a bit. Car was a death trap.

Usually I don't think that people making bad decisions imply that they're necessarily stupid. Incredibly intelligent people make bad decisions all the time.

But given the volume of evidence - media coverage, stories of those dying years before "their time" (as they say), and all because they didn't get vaccinated despite having the chance, the continued refusal to get vaccinated is baffling. Face palm moments every single time you have to read about another one, especially leaving behind children/partners who have to soldier on without them. For the sake of what?

sensu strictu

[BaronVerde]

Yep, rolleyes

I used the term to make clear I referred to Darwin's contribution to our view of evolution by introducing natural selection, while he at the same time was not aware of for instance genes and inheritance a la Mendel. Though Darwin observed and described ratios similiar to Mendel, I believe he didn't know of Mendels work, at least not when he published his seminal "On the Origin of Species". And anyway, biological evolution has become such a huge apparatus including geology, geography, chemisry, biology, genetics, math and statistics, that I deemed it necessary to point out that Darwin and Darwinism (sensu stricto ) is just a small step for a human to make when trying to understand biological evolution.

It is also, if I am not mistaken, the case specifically in 'murrica that "Darwinism" is frequently instrumentalized and has some eschatological connotation to it, like a belief, or some such ... One more reason to make clear "I mean natural selection a la Darwin, 1859".

------------------

Read today a random news item that intelligence people have hacked Chinese lab data and are now trying to find something to hang around the Chinese necks, but that they lack capable scientists to correctly interpret the data. <opinon> Bloody intelligence derps, should rather be helpful finding solutions than searching for culprits </opinion>.

Whatever

[Tamina]

Got my second shot two days ago. I am a bit late to the party but if you want a specific vaccine here, then you have to make an appointment and I wanted Biontech. For the same reason most Brits are probably going for AstraZeneca in England, blindly guessing.

First shot: Pain in the arm
Second shot: Nothing

The vaccination center was almost empty, though. Which is kind of sad to see. Seems like Germany is going to settle for a ~60-70% vaccination rate as well from my very little experience. Politicians said there will be no forced vaccination - we will see about that.

[fiksal]

my next challenge is what we advice to our relatives, that live in Russia, about the Russian vaccines.

does the risk behind the questionably tested (or rather untested) vaccine make sense?

[BaronVerde]

I would say most definitely 'yes, it does make sense to take the Russian vaccine'. It may be not as effective as some of the others, but I think it also used elsewhere around the world and was even taken into consideration by the western Europeans.

So, if your relatives haven't already been vaccinated and they have no other choice, they should definitely take that one.

[CBJ]

For the same reason most Brits are probably going for AstraZeneca in England, blindly guessing.

Most Brits don't get to choose which vaccine they get. In fact for those in groups that are eligible for multiple types, you don't even generally know which one you're getting until you're standing in the queue.

[fiksal]

I would say most definitely 'yes, it does make sense to take the Russian vaccine'. It may be not as effective as some of the others, but I think it also used elsewhere around the world and was even taken into consideration by the western Europeans.

So, if your relatives haven't already been vaccinated and they have no other choice, they should definitely take that one.

most people over there are worried about how safe it is, in short term and in long term.

I also wonder how effective it is, but that's secondary

[BaronVerde]

@fiksal, If you're talking about the 'Sputnik' dubbed vaccine, I think one can find quite a lot of independet information, including studies about it's effectiveness/efficacy/whatever and known existing side effects. I doubt it is a total black box.

[fiksal]

@fiksal, If you're talking about the 'Sputnik' dubbed vaccine, I think one can find quite a lot of independet information, including studies about it's effectiveness/efficacy/whatever and known existing side effects. I doubt it is a total black box.

yep it's about Sputnik.

Most info I got is from government sources that aren't trusted in Russia.

I had some from publications in international papers. Perhaps I missed some independent conclusions.

I will try to look again

[Tamina]

Sometimes I can't follow if Russians (in general) do or do not trust their government now.

For the same reason most Brits are probably going for AstraZeneca in England, blindly guessing.

Most Brits don't get to choose which vaccine they get. In fact for those in groups that are eligible for multiple types, you don't even generally know which one you're getting until you're standing in the queue.

You don't really get to choose here as well. The government's website tells you which vaccination you get directly after making an appointment. You can also just go there anytime without one, but then you won't know until you are standing in the queue.

Some vaccination centers offer only a subset of all authorized vaccines, or even just one. You can indirectly influence it by choosing your center of choice that way. Or you can cancel and reschedule an appointment until you get your preferred vaccine My family doctor gave me a choice but the waiting list was veeery long.

I just did not want to get J&J, and when I got an appointment for Biontech I waited for that one instead of going there immeadiatly.

[Incubi]

I was concerned about how fast the vaccine came out, and there was so much crap about it that it was difficult to separate the bs from the truth. My main concern was the possible long term effects. So we continued wearing mask and social distancing and watched and waited. CDC was too quick to say that people who are vaccinated do not need to wear mask and people took advantage of it. And in my area everyone was only to quick to pretend that covid-19 is over. So it became a race to find the truth about the vaccines and get vaccinated or get covid. All it took to finally get to us is for my sons girlfriends moms boyfriend to get it. I took too long researching vaccines and Covid-19 got to me before I could decide.

I think that I have decided on the pfizer and as soon as I am better and given the ok, Ill be getting it.

[mr.WHO]

Anyone heard there is Kappa variant, from Colombia?
Soon we will run out of the Alphabet.


I really think that people will explode when there will be a variant resistant to vacine (and there will be, eventually) and everything would need to be start again.

[Alan Phipps]

There is a very profound lesson in Incubi's post above about the harm and loss directly caused by the misinformation going around about Covid and vaccines. Time to prevaricate really is not available.

The moral of that story is to get your information from reputable sources, cross-check it yourself with other reputable sources if necessary, and speak to your doctor or other healthcare provider if still in doubt. Time is of the essence in protecting yourself, your family and the general community; the disease will find chinks in any non-clinical isolation routines (and even in the clinical ones considering that my brother contracted his Covid while in hospital).

I am not at all saying that there is absolutely no possibility of potential longer term effects from vaccines, but we already know about longer and shorter term effects from catching Covid.

[BaronVerde]

I am entirely with you, @AlanPhipps. Only verified, reviewed information adds to our knowledge. I ignore initial news items, if they are not based on a reviewed publication or reflect a widely accepted view.

Anyone heard there is Kappa variant, from Colombia?

The WHO has a list of named SARS-CoV-2 lineages, ordered by level of concern or interest:
https://www.who.int/en/activities/track ... -variants/

The Kappa variant is listed as a "Variant of Interest" ("Fascinating!" ).

For a new lineage it'll take some time to fully analyse, document and publish it, and some more time and observation to judge if it should be included in the above watch-list.

New variants are more likely to emerge as long as people reject or don't have access to vaccinations, or as long as the virus spreads and evolves.

[mr.WHO]

Am I the only one who feels strange seeing people complaining about mask when you have plenty of politicians, left, right nad center, who only wear mask in front of cameras?
Like that posin in G7 when they just put masks for the photo and then immediately went back to no mask at all.

Or politicians and celebrities berating people for not adhering to lockdown, but the casually throwing a huge birthday party (Obama wasn't first in that manner)?
As far as I know, the only person who might be punished for it, would be California governor, but according to polls, he has a fair chance to survive the recall.

[Vertigo 7]

Dunno. Probably. I doubt there's many here that are obsessed enough with politicians that aren't in their country to watch them when they're not on camera.

[Incubi]

There is a very profound lesson in Incubi's post above about the harm and loss directly caused by the misinformation going around about Covid and vaccines. Time to prevaricate really is not available.

The moral of that story is to get your information from reputable sources, cross-check it yourself with other reputable sources if necessary, and speak to your doctor or other healthcare provider if still in doubt. Time is of the essence in protecting yourself, your family and the general community; the disease will find chinks in any non-clinical isolation routines (and even in the clinical ones considering that my brother contracted his Covid while in hospital).

I am not at all saying that there is absolutely no possibility of potential longer term effects from vaccines, but we already know about longer and shorter term effects from catching Covid.

That. The vast amount of misinformation is very dangerous. I wasn't trying to avoid a vaccine, I was trying to see when and if it was safe to take it. And all the misinformation made that very difficult to do. Combined with being used to a pattern of caution that kept me and my family safe for over a year and a half, I figured I had time to wait and see. So that is where my responsibility comes in.

The one bit of information that held me back for the last month was finding the truth behind the blood clotting. Apparently the pfizer does not have this issue. But I did not find that out until I was infected. It really should not be this hard to find real information. I am an over weight and fifty years old so a blood clotting side effect was of a notable concern. I am embarrassed to say I did just find it in the CDC and I thought I was thorough about reading it. Also on me even it was layers deep in the site. But I am not letting bs polarity politics and misleading media off the hook.

All that said my children all seem to be ok with two of them already patched up and just waiting the quarantine out. I am in a lot of pain but my fever is gone and my breathing is normal. As soon as I am clear I am getting us all the pfizer

[BaronVerde]

The unvaccinated (for whatever reason) are a danger not only for themselves but also for others, including vaccinated, and they are the reason why the virus ist still spreading and evolving. Any hesitation, if it is other than for a lack of vaccine, is unreasonable. Apart from misinformation, there is no data available that justifies it, after 100s of millions of responsible people have been vaccinated and tons of studies are out there. Clotting isn't an excuse any more, it has never really been one not get vaccinated. Never ! Its chance is magnitudes lower than dying from covid, even more so since people are informed of the symptoms.

People find excuses because of something they heard somewhere about adverse effects and hesitate to vaccinate themselves, even keep their family from doing so, against all science and reason, until they catch COVID and spread it further inside the own family and possibly outside, giving the virus more opportunities. That is not responsible behaviour.

Get vaccinated you unvaccinated, you're endangering me !

[Tamina]

The one bit of information that held me back for the last month was finding the truth behind the blood clotting. Apparently the pfizer does not have this issue. But I did not find that out until I was infected. It really should not be this hard to find real information.

Trying to find a way from within a forest is more difficult than looking at it from the outside. Finding up-to-date information is super difficult while they are happening. There is no shame in that.

But I am not letting bs polarity politics and misleading media off the hook.

Yes. It is not just Fake News that make it harder, but also Yellow Papers and even reputable News outlets rather tend to got for sensationalism than journalism. I.e. I remember when media managed to make it a crisis when two people, who had allergic reactions to other vaccines before, got an allergic reaction. Even though, the approval papers specifically included side effects like allergic reactions, and how those numbers were nothing out of the ordinary.