Coronavirus: COVID-19

[Vertigo 7]

I dunno about that. The WHO has globally eradicated small pox and RPV, and apparently are on the verge of eradicating polio within the next couple of years. It's a bit early to say Covid can't be eradicated.

Problem is, without US funding, and if a certain someone remains in office, then I think the WHO will not survive. But if he does get booted, and the order gets reversed, then maybe. But still, there are super viruses already out there. Even if some viruses might get removed, plenty will stick around. The black death in itself proves how resilient a virus is. It never went away. Even though for a long time, evidence wasn't there to say that it had simply vanished. And those bones that were found in mass graves in London, gave people the evidence to say, that the virus remained to this day.
[...]

Can "we" at least stop saying that the bubonic plague is a virus? Seriously, a quick check on the wiki (or any biology book on the topic) would tell you it's a bacterium, hence the antibiotics being effective.

quite so. Also, the bubonic plague doesn't spread like a virus. There have only been 1006 confirmed or probable cases of the plague in the US since 1900, according to CDC data. Globally, 1000-2000 cases annually, according to WHO data. This is very much an apples and asparagus comparison. WHO isn't focused on eradicating that disease because its no where near the threat posed by things like Polio where vaccines have already been developed.

[felter]

I would say the majority of scientists have been pretty much spot on with what they have said about the virus and their advice, while they have updated what they have had to say as it has gone on. The problem is more in the way of the governments not listening to the scientists, not going to mention any of them but two governments do really come to mind.

The WHO is not going to go away, even if the US were to stop it's funding. What would happen is that they would shut down all of their US offices and move on. Right now I would suspect China would take over a larger role and pay more, just to give the US the middle finger and I wouldn't be surprised of China became their new headquarters. If Trump really wants to make America so called great again, pulling out of the WHO is not going to help, it would do the exact opposite.

[Vertigo 7]

I would say the majority of scientists have been pretty much spot on with what they have said about the virus and their advice, while they have updated what they have had to say as it has gone on. The problem is more in the way of the governments not listening to the scientists, not going to mention any of them but two governments do really come to mind.

The WHO is not going to go away, even if the US were to stop it's funding. What would happen is that they would shut down all of their US offices and move on. Right now I would suspect China would take over a larger role and pay more, just to give the US the middle finger and I wouldn't be surprised of China became their new headquarters. If Trump really wants to make America so called great again, pulling out of the WHO is not going to help, it would do the exact opposite.

There's a bit more to it than that. The US provides more of the funding to the WHO in voluntary contributions than any other nation. The WHO does a lot in research but also does, literally, door to door vaccinations in undeveloped nations and just the logistics alone of accomplishing that is a lot of their operating budget. Without US funding, things like the Polio global eradication are in jeopardy. But of course, Trump is so arrogant that he said the US will pick up the global responsibilities. But what country would want the US to show up in their borders under the pretense of medical intervention?

[Ketraar]

The US provides more of the funding to the WHO in voluntary contributions than any other nation.

If you took that info as me from John Oliver than you also know its US' fault that its the case as they imposed a freeze in contributions, even though I dont quite understand why.

MFG

Ketraar

[Vertigo 7]

The US provides more of the funding to the WHO in voluntary contributions than any other nation.

If you took that info as me from John Oliver than you also know its US' fault that its the case as they imposed a freeze in contributions, even though I dont quite understand why.

MFG

Ketraar

Cuz Trump.

Seriously. He setup the WHO to be some kind of scapegoat so he could try to dodge blame for his failure to respond to Covid. So he shit talked them and sent them official notice that we would be pulling out next year - just one more thing on the ballot with serious global implications.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

The US provides more of the funding to the WHO in voluntary contributions than any other nation.

If you took that info as me from John Oliver than you also know its US' fault that its the case as they imposed a freeze in contributions, even though I dont quite understand why.

MFG

Ketraar

Cuz Trump.

Seriously. He setup the WHO to be some kind of scapegoat so he could try to dodge blame for his failure to respond to Covid. So he shit talked them and sent them official notice that we would be pulling out next year - just one more thing on the ballot with serious global implications.

"Next year". Everything he wants to do he's doing "next year". Just promises (for his voting base, threatens for everybody else), because the truth is he's not going to do facts.

WHO, like any human rights related organization (FAO, UNICEF, anyone...), gets (should get, I don't know and am not going to search for the actual numbers) its contributions from each nation based on its wealth, so that's just logical USA gives the largest share. That's how "the biggest country in the world" actually helps the world, not "exporting democracy", throwing bombs or overthrowing governments. But people like Trump doesn't care, their agenda, what makes them happy, isn't something like "all the world should be better", but "the world should be worse than us".

[Vertigo 7]

If you took that info as me from John Oliver than you also know its US' fault that its the case as they imposed a freeze in contributions, even though I dont quite understand why.

MFG

Ketraar

Cuz Trump.

Seriously. He setup the WHO to be some kind of scapegoat so he could try to dodge blame for his failure to respond to Covid. So he shit talked them and sent them official notice that we would be pulling out next year - just one more thing on the ballot with serious global implications.

"Next year". Everything he wants to do he's doing "next year". Just promises (for his voting base, threatens for everybody else), because the truth is he's not going to do facts.

WHO, like any human rights related organization (FAO, UNICEF, anyone...), gets (should get, I don't know and am not going to search for the actual numbers) its contributions from each nation based on its wealth, so that's just logical USA gives the largest share. That's how "the biggest country in the world" actually helps the world, not "exporting democracy", throwing bombs or overthrowing governments. But people like Trump doesn't care, their agenda, what makes them happy, isn't something like "all the world should be better", but "the world should be worse than us".

It's not that. There's a stipulation in the agreement for WHO membership for the US that the US has to provide written notice of their intent to leave the WHO 1 year out.

And yes, it does make sense that if we have the money to spare, we contribute more. But it's not a requirement. There is a membership due that every nation pays. Anything beyond that is a donation with a rider attached stipulating how the contribution can be used. China, for example, only pays their dues and nothing beyond.

[matthewfarmery]

White House chief of staff says 'we're not going to control pandemic', after Pence staffers test positive – live

And Pence has also been tested positive.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... irus-covid

the federal government was not focusing on trying to control the pandemic.

“We’re not going to control the pandemic,” he told Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union. “We are going to control the fact that we get a vaccine, therapeutics and other mitigation.”

Yeah and how many Americans will have access to that? I really question that statement for what it's worth. Even then, a cure is still a bit away. And might still not be suitable for everyone.

In truth, if they aren't going to try and control this, Then things will get worse as long as he remains in office. Man, what a corrupt and heartless thing to say.

[matthewfarmery]

So interesting to read your opinions and stories from abroad. Living in Germany things are getting hard now. Second wave incoming

Really sorry to hear that. sadly, quite a few cities in the UK are going to get the full lockdown treatment. And in Wales, there are even greater restrictions on what you can and can not buy.

All in all, its not going to get better, anytime soon. And yes, other countries like France is also getting hard hit. Only country that seems to be ignoring things is the US, and we all know the reason for that.

[euclid]

We had a last meeting with friends on Friday before the lockdown here in Wales started. The Corona virus was the center of our conversation. Some interesting points about the origin of the virus came up. If the virus was indeed transferred from animals (a bat I believe) to humans, why did that not happen sooner? If it is a part of evolution, will we have to expect more of those animal-human transmissions? If it is not due to "normal" evolution, could it be a (re-)action of the self-regulating capabilities of earth's ecologic system?

Of course we did not find any satisfactory answer but agreed that the situation is a rather long-term problem.

Cheers Euclid

[Vertigo 7]

We had a last meeting with friends on Friday before the lockdown here in Wales started. The Corona virus was the center of our conversation. Some interesting points about the origin of the virus came up. If the virus was indeed transferred from animals (a bat I believe) to humans, why did that not happen sooner? If it is a part of evolution, will we have to expect more of those animal-human transmissions? If it is not due to "normal" evolution, could it be a (re-)action of the self-regulating capabilities of earth's ecologic system?

Of course we did not find any satisfactory answer but agreed that the situation is a rather long-term problem.

Cheers Euclid

Oh, for sure this isn't going to be the last pandemic we will face. To rational people, its not a question of if, but when. As to why this didn't happen sooner, it's anyone's guess but I'd bet on coincidence IF this truly wasn't engineered. But reading over this, it doesn't sound like bats or pangolins are 100% confirmed to be the origin of the virus since neither have an exact nucleotide match to the virus found in humans. It's even suggested that the wet market in Wuhan was not the origin of the spread of Covid, rather it came from elsewhere and was amplified there, which would explain the 14 cases in December that had no direct or indirect contact with the wet market.

[felter]

They are 99.9% sure the virus did not originate from bats, they suspect and think the originating species was the Pangolin. They also guestimate that their will be a pandemic around once every 100 years, now seeing as the last big one was in 1917, that makes it just over 100 years, so we were due for this to happen.

Interspecies transmissions are pretty rare, as a virus from one species generally cannot survive on another species, not just that nowadays, especially most of us do not ever come into contact with wild animals. Most animals we do come into contact with are either pets or farmed and they are generally in good health, meaning even less chance of cross species contamination. Another thing is the cross over can sometimes only happen when a human consumes the meat of a contaminated species, which also generally doesn't happen as we get our meats from a butchers where they normally only sell fresh healthy meat, but not all the time.

Also it does happen more often than you may think, it just gets stoped before it can get out of hand. Bird Flu is probably the biggest that happens quite regularly and it is probably the virus they thought was going to be the next pandemic.

[RegisterMe]

We had a last meeting with friends on Friday before the lockdown here in Wales started. The Corona virus was the center of our conversation. Some interesting points about the origin of the virus came up. If the virus was indeed transferred from animals (a bat I believe) to humans, why did that not happen sooner? If it is a part of evolution, will we have to expect more of those animal-human transmissions? If it is not due to "normal" evolution, could it be a (re-)action of the self-regulating capabilities of earth's ecologic system?

Of course we did not find any satisfactory answer but agreed that the situation is a rather long-term problem.

Cheers Euclid

The transfer of disease from animals to humans has a name - zoonosis. It's been an active field of study for decades. Though perhaps not as well funded as it should have been! Many countries, and organisations, the most obvious of which (to me anyway) are the US, the UK, the CDC, the WHO etc, have had programmes in place monitoring and responding to zoonotic incidents, again, for years. Think SARS, MERS, Ebola etc. Again, shame about the funding .

The principal answer to both your questions about why "it" didn't happen sooner, and will we have to expect more of "them", is that the frequency of such incidents is in large part down to human encroachment on habitats that previously did not have people running around in them. So.... increased commercial agriculture, increased logging and mining in remote areas, increased habitation / urbanisation in previously untouched areas etc, in short, anything that increases the incidence of human - "new" wildlife contact increases the chances of a zoonotic incident.

There's some good books on the subject.

EDIT: HIV, rabies, Zika....

[Golden_Gonads]

White House chief of staff says 'we're not going to control pandemic', after Pence staffers test positive – live

And Pence has also been tested positive.

... Pence tested negative.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Italy closed everything after 6pm. Restaurants, gyms, beauty centers are the ones closing, and are the ones which spent a lot to respect the rules in past months. I'm not sure it's been the right decision, honestly, as the biggest infection areas are schools and mass transit, not restaurants. Six months to build resilience and nothing has been done, I'm ashamed.

[matthewfarmery]

White House chief of staff says 'we're not going to control pandemic', after Pence staffers test positive – live

And Pence has also been tested positive.

... Pence tested negative.

Your right, it was his aids that were tested positive.

[matthewfarmery]

We had a last meeting with friends on Friday before the lockdown here in Wales started. The Corona virus was the center of our conversation. Some interesting points about the origin of the virus came up. If the virus was indeed transferred from animals (a bat I believe) to humans, why did that not happen sooner? If it is a part of evolution, will we have to expect more of those animal-human transmissions? If it is not due to "normal" evolution, could it be a (re-)action of the self-regulating capabilities of earth's ecologic system?

Of course we did not find any satisfactory answer but agreed that the situation is a rather long-term problem.

Cheers Euclid

The transfer of disease from animals to humans has a name - zoonosis. It's been an active field of study for decades. Though perhaps not as well funded as it should have been! Many countries, and organisations, the most obvious of which (to me anyway) are the US, the UK, the CDC, the WHO etc, have had programmes in place monitoring and responding to zoonotic incidents, again, for years. Think SARS, MERS, Ebola etc. Again, shame about the funding .

The principal answer to both your questions about why "it" didn't happen sooner, and will we have to expect more of "them", is that the frequency of such incidents is in large part down to human encroachment on habitats that previously did not have people running around in them. So.... increased commercial agriculture, increased logging and mining in remote areas, increased habitation / urbanisation in previously untouched areas etc, in short, anything that increases the incidence of human - "new" wildlife contact increases the chances of a zoonotic incident.

There's some good books on the subject.

EDIT: HIV, rabies, Zika....

But there is another factor, china has been eating many sorts of animals, the way that they are hosed and caged are generally not very clean, they been wiping many species of animals, fishes right of the map. In fact, some species you can nearly declare extinct. yet there is no way to stop them. They use many of these animals for medicines, even though there is no proof that they work. they Hunt the minke whale for example,
the list just goes on. If this was passed from animals to humans, then I say, this could be a way for animals and the planet to get their own back. After all, we haven't looked after this planet very well. And sooner or later, it might not support us at all that well in return. While you can also blame logging, farming, climate change, hunting etc,

In the end, This was bound to happen at some point. for me, I take this virus as another warning for us humans to change our ways, before its too late to do anything.

[CBJ]

they Hunt the minke whale for example

Er, I'm pretty sure that's Japan.

[matthewfarmery]

they Hunt the minke whale for example

Er, I'm pretty sure that's Japan.

Sorry my mistake, you are right. I thought it was china, still, both countries have a lot to answer for when it comes to capturing and killing animals. Especailly for their so called medicines and what not.

[Mightysword]

Also it does happen more often than you may think, it just gets stoped before it can get out of hand. Bird Flu is probably the biggest that happens quite regularly and it is probably the virus they thought was going to be the next pandemic.

I would like to point out something about this point - I don't think human-animal transmission is a rare thing at all in the context of our history as a whole. The length of time where we human learn how to build our cities and live off our farms and domestic animal is fairly short comparing to the length our species live in the middle of nature and live off hunting/foraging. So I do consider events like this is part of natural evolution, we human just learnt how to insulate ourselves from it but we're not immune to it. (Think about like forest fires).

What makes it especially bad these days is because globalization. Thousands years ago most of the time it may wipe out half a village, or even a village or two and quietly go away. (I mention most of the time to exclude a few special "events" that some may bring up). These days it can spread throughout the entire world in a month. In hindsight, I think the biggest problem wasn't the fact it happened, but the responses to it. First, the reason it is so bad comparing to the more recent outbreak because the timing couldn't be any worse: right before lunar new year. By the time it was acknowledge, it was too late and and a global spread was inevitable.

And secondly come the experience on how to deal with it itself. Most of the world got caught with its pants down both from the lack of experience and ulterior motives, in the end I think the most damaging to global response is that the majority didn't know how to take it seriously both from government and general population. It's not a wonder why countries around China deal with it very effectively, because they know the drill. It shows that you can deal with these things as they happen, I can only hope the rest of the world had learnt the same lesson as those countries.