Coronavirus: COVID-19

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red assassin
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by red assassin » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 21:36

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3
Yes, it works, and potentially better than two doses of the same vaccine. The aim is to get your immune system to respond to Covid, so there are some fairly obvious advantages to a mixed vaccine dose - less chance of generating an immune response to the adenovirus used as a delivery vector by some vaccines, more likelihood that you build an immune response that's robust to mutations by training your immune system on slightly different triggers, etc. All of these vaccines ultimately work by delivering the SARS-CoV2 spike protein in some form, so it's unsurprising that this works.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Tamina » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 22:11

So there are more side effects but no actual evidence that is is more effective to mix them long term?

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by red assassin » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 22:45

These studies are too small to measure efficacy, much less compare it against other vaccination strategies; they're mostly about ensuring that it's safe and the immune response generated looks as expected. Which it is and it does, which is good, as quite a few people are getting mixed vaccinations for various reasons, and it's likely that a third booster dose may be needed at some point which may also be a different vaccine. Comparing effectiveness of a mixed strategy against individual vaccines will require very large numbers of people.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 23:48

Mixing vaccines has become common practice. There are no safety concerns, apart from somewhat more frequently mild symptoms like feverishness.

Single-dose vaccines are also going to hit the market soon(tm).

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Ketraar » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 01:40

red assassin wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 21:36
what he said
Thanks for the explanation, my surprise came from the fact that, when the AZ one was not available in high quantities, and we moved to use other ones (mostly Pfizer at the time), a stock was kept to ensure people who had taken the AZ as first shot could take the second from the same version. Even though not explicitly stated it gave the impression that mixing versions would not be a good thing.
BaronVerde wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 23:48
Single-dose vaccines are also going to hit the market soon(tm).
Single dose J&J one is already available here for several weeks, though still not as wide spread as others.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 10:22

I got J&J in first week of May - rather convinient as you only need to bother with single dose.

It might be that many people who are still hesitant, would be more keen to single-dose vacine.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by clakclak » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 15:42

Ketraar wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 20:02
clakclak wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 18:30
I am fully vaccinated (Astra shot 1; Moderna shot 2) and had side effects both times.
:o First person I hear having different brands of vaccines between shots.

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Everyone I know who got their first shot with Astra got something else for shot two.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 16:25

clakclak wrote:
Wed, 9. Jun 21, 15:42
Everyone I know who got their first shot with Astra got something else for shot two.
Not me, I was AZ for both.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by red assassin » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 16:31

The UK is still recommending that people who got AZ for their first dose get AZ for their second too. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... accination
As of 26 May 2021, of the 348 suspected cases reported to the MHRA following the AZ vaccine, 18 suspected cases have been reported after the second dose all in those aged 50 or older. None of these cases have been confirmed. The JCVI concluded that there continue to be no safety concerns following the second dose of vaccine. As the number of second doses administered has increased, the much lower rate of reported cases and absence of confirmed cases after the second dose is reassuring.

The JCVI advises that those who have received their first dose of the AZ vaccine should continue to be offered the second dose unless they have developed this specific syndrome of thrombosis and thrombocytopenia following the first dose or have had an anaphylactic reaction. The COVID-19 green book chapter has further information on contraindications to COVID-19 vaccines.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Chips » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 17:41

Heard on the news this morning that out of the 59 or so people in Hospital in Manchester with Covid, 5 had received both doses of vaccine, 10 had received one dose, and the remaining 44 had no vaccine at all (but were younger, so spend less time in hospital too which may mean numbers appear lower).

Just goes to show those thinking vaccine = utterly safe to go back to normal life as protected from covid - not necessarily... However, obviously also shows that hospital admissions are far lower (nothing about actual infection rates) and can only hope that it means the R number drops to the "it'll not spread but fizzle out", which is what they really want to open up afaik?

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 19:13

@ Chips: The problem with your last paragraph is that it is not so much the national R number that is important here but more the local R numbers in the current infection hotspots. The reported delta variant infection rate trends in those suggest that their local R numbers are indeed above one and that the transmission rates in those localitities are growing in an unstable manner.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 19:28

As has been stated a bazillion times, no vaccination whatsoever offers 100% protection, not COVID or any other sickness. A vaccination helps the immune system to cope with what it has to expect when catching a sickness, it isn't caught by surprise. A small percentage of vaccinated people can still get sick, even with the necessity to be hospitalized. But a small number will not be a challenge to the health care system any more. On the other hand, as soon as a greater number of people are vaccinated, for the rest it is get vaccinated, too, or get sick sooner or later.

I did a very brief search and didn't see any official link stating that vaccinated people were hospitalized in numbers because of COVID in Manchester, or elsewhere. As can be expected there are ofc isolated cases all over the world. Is there an official news item ? Any source ?

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by red assassin » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 19:41

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-20761057
This article states:
of the 12,383 cases of the Delta variant, 464 went on to present at emergency care and 126 people were admitted to hospital, the Health Secretary said. Of these 126 people, 83 were unvaccinated, 28 had received one dose and just three had received both doses of the vaccine.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Tamina » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:08

May I ask what happened to the other 12 people of these 126?

However 3 out of >100 people seems reasonably safe. And falls right into the numbers of the studies proclaiming an effectiveness of >95%.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BaronVerde » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:42

Thank you, yes, that puts in relation.

Stay safe and healthy :-)

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Cpt.Jericho » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:46

Tamina wrote:
Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:08
May I ask what happened to the other 12 people of these 126?

However 3 out of >100 people seems reasonably safe. And falls right into the numbers of the studies proclaiming an effectiveness of >95%.
Those 3 would be the number if all had been fully vaccinated. But they aren't.
Around here the rate was - last time I bothered - at about 20%s having had both shots. In my book this means 3 out of 20 out of those > 100.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by red assassin » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:49

Tamina wrote:
Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:08
May I ask what happened to the other 12 people of these 126?

However 3 out of >100 people seems reasonably safe. And falls right into the numbers of the studies proclaiming an effectiveness of >95%.
Don't know. Possibly not known, possibly edge cases like "received vaccine yesterday", possibly an error in one or more of the figures.

You can't generally calculate the effectiveness from just these figures, you also need to know how many people are vaccinated. (Since you're comparing the case rate in vaccinated vs vaccinated populations - if one of the populations is bigger, the proportions will be off.) However, as about 50% of the UK's adult population are fully vaccinated for covid right now, your effectiveness estimate is probably pretty much right. (Although the population hasn't been 50% vaccinated at random; the most vulnerable half of the population has been vaccinated, which would make the vaccine effectiveness look lower than it really is.)
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by felter » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 20:50

The thing with all of that is that there is no actual mention of time scale, is that for the last day, the last week, the last month all he says is recent which could mean anything. Another thing is Hancock has been shown to be a liar and is not adverse to manipulating what he is saying to make them look good, not that there is anyone in the current government that is not known for that mind you, so that is not a personal dig at him alone. Anyway the numbers are all rising in all fields, from deaths, to hospitalisation, to new infections, the last is currently rising pretty rapidly. The other thing of note worthiness is that everything is currently looking nearly the exact same as when they ended the first lockdown. Also I keep saying this, but the vaccine is not a cure, while it helps in the control of the virus it does not stop it and while the virus is still prevalent somewhere else this is not over. All it takes is one mutation and we are back to square one. I know Boris the clown wants everything to go back to normal but that is not going to happen anytime soon, no matter how many fingers are crossed.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Tamina » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 21:08

I was counting in that about 40% of all people in GB are fully vaccinated and the effectiveness is calculated "sick-vacc / sick-not-vacc" not "sick-vacc / vacc" when both parties are equally populated.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by red assassin » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 21:14

Those figures are for all confirmed delta variant cases. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... a-suggests Note that not all cases are sequenced so that's not the actual total number of delta cases, it's just to give a picture of the outcomes for known delta cases vs other variants. The majority of cases in the UK are delta variant at this point.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
For further context, for the whole of the UK, there are currently 1024 Covid patients in hospital, with about 120 new patients being admitted per day. Numbers for both of these are rising slightly.
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