Cyberpunk 2077

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Sat, 19. Dec 20, 16:33

chew-ie wrote:
Fri, 18. Dec 20, 09:22
Yeah, it is getting ridiculous. The devs are on it, gave a roadmap of the upcoming fixes and yet people are still bitching around. Can't get behind the motivation other then that it is a pure and simple hate train.
Its not ridiculous, I think you underestimate just how badly it runs on the PS4. Its so bad that CDPR prevented reviewers from talking about it before the game came out.

I really like the game and hopefully the new patch helps my performance issues (have a 6 core AMD cpu) so I can get back to it but they've behaved very scummy, especially toward the consoles. No excusing it really. If it was EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda nobody would be jumping to defend them.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 19. Dec 20, 18:11

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 16:33
If it was EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda nobody would be jumping to defend them.
Some people just wanna see shit burn and those types are worse than whatever corporate dill wad rushing out a game for profits.

Honestly, it's pretty sad seeing some people act like their life is ruined because a damn video game didn't meet their expectations, especially when they are being presented with every opportunity to get their money back.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by chew-ie » Sat, 19. Dec 20, 19:06

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 16:33
chew-ie wrote:
Fri, 18. Dec 20, 09:22
Yeah, it is getting ridiculous. The devs are on it, gave a roadmap of the upcoming fixes and yet people are still bitching around. Can't get behind the motivation other then that it is a pure and simple hate train.
Its not ridiculous, I think you underestimate just how badly it runs on the PS4. Its so bad that CDPR prevented reviewers from talking about it before the game came out.
I know about it - a buddy of mine is playing it on PS4. (I wrote about that a few posts earlier) Doesn't change the fact that everything is on the table now and they will fix the game. Also everybody is getting a _FREE_ update for next-gen consoles (a promise no one talks about). I doubt that the majority PS4 owners stick to their old hardware for the next 8 years.

Might sound harsh (I'm no native speaker) but what I really like to point out: Yes, the management lied (as they always do - it's the very reason you work in sales) and this is indeed a big fail. But all the hate around this game is just blown out of proportion. The failed last-gen console audience is not the majority, there are a lot of people enjoying the game (mostly those playing on PC) and the game is not "totally broken" / "a bug fest" or whatever hyperbole the people come up with in order to underline their "arguments". So while I sympathize with them being lied to I can't stand this talk about "the game being unplayable" (as it is _not_ unplayable - I played through it without problems and I am on my second run).

Everybody is entitled to be disappointed (I am too - as some aspects of the game I'd liked to be more fleshed out - like the car customization) but I really see no point to make a new Mass Effect Andromeda out of this situation (letting the vocal minority bitching around for months until the game is shelved & DLCs are canceled). Nobody could want that.
Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 16:33
I really like the game and hopefully the new patch helps my performance issues (have a 6 core AMD cpu) so I can get back to it but they've behaved very scummy, especially toward the consoles. No excusing it really.
Agreed - and I really believe they will deliver, if given a chance. Right now all kinds of people look to do more damage then the situation is worth - I hope they'll fail.
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 18:11
Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 16:33
If it was EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda nobody would be jumping to defend them.
Some people just wanna see shit burn and those types are worse than whatever corporate dill wad rushing out a game for profits.

Honestly, it's pretty sad seeing some people act like their life is ruined because a damn video game didn't meet their expectations, especially when they are being presented with every opportunity to get their money back.
Agreed. It feels like this:

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 19. Dec 20, 19:25

chew-ie wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 19:06
The failed last-gen console audience is not the majority, there are a lot of people enjoying the game (mostly those playing on PC) and the game is not "totally broken" / "a bug fest" or whatever hyperbole the people come up with in order to underline their "arguments".
Here's something too that's not considered. The OG PS4 and Xbox One are running the same OS as their UHD counterparts (PS4 Pro and Xbox One X). Those systems are ancient by any modern standards (I'm not even counting the PS5 or Series X due to such a limited availability). From all accounts, the game is playable on the One X and barely playable on the PS4 Pro. How much would they have to strip out to make it playable on the OG systems? How would that impact play on the UHD systems?

From all appearances, this game was designed to take advantage of modern hardware. Microsoft and Sony are not going to have a game that's only playable on their UHD systems. Stripping out core elements of the game to make it compatible with old hardware is gonna end up making it a shit show on the old systems, even if it is stable. Both Microsoft and Sony have set some unrealistic barriers in barring game releases for only modern platforms. This is a perfect example of why this was a bad idea because now CDPR is going to be forced to work backwards to get this game running on the old systems.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Tycow » Sat, 19. Dec 20, 20:48

Hotfix 1.05 incoming!

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.p ... .11056190/

Interestingly, under a section called 'PC Specific' they list:

[AMD SMT] Optimized default core/thread utilization for 4-core and 6-core AMD Ryzen(tm) processors. 8-core, 12-core and 16-core processors remain unchanged and behaving as intended. This change was implemented in cooperation with AMD and based on tests on both sides indicating that performance improvement occurs only on CPUs with 6 cores and less.

So the fix I posted a few pages back was a legit issue; that would explain why some saw an improvement and other AMD users with more cores didn't. I did see an improvement (having a Ryzen 5 3600X six core CPU) - glad it's officially fixed now. :)

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 10:27

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 15:28
matthewfarmery wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 13:27
If that is to be believed, then the devs / management got special treatment. And that the Devs and or management did lie to Sony and others on the state of the last gen versions. From a very high standing studio, now reduced to nothing but poor standing. I suspect the studio rep will not recover for some time.
Well, there was a big conference held yesterday with the CDPR devs and board members and some of the public. The board members took the hit on the debacle. Devs even called them out directly and the lead dev even said "we told you the game wasn't ready". One even said "It's ironic that we developed a game about corporate exploitation and you used us the way you did."

It's likely we'll see some or all of their board replaced. Their stocks dropped where it was at the end of 2019, loosing almost half their value over night. Share holders are likely to file a lawsuit, for whatever that's worth.

Despite Mr. Who's desires, CDPR ain't going anywhere. If game companies failed over one bad launch, then Ego, EA, Bethesda, Bioware, 2K, and many others would have long been history. He just likes to see people suffer. He sounds like an angry child that's jealous he can't enjoy something other people are. All the problems with the game are technical issues, not loot box and forced advertising BS. They'll be sorted in due time, life will continue on for Mr. Who and the rest of the whiners.
I would point out, that EA is a publisher, so is 2K. So they can publisher many games. So if one flops, they can move on. The problem is, for a dev studio, they generally can only afford to release one game at a time. (unless they can afford to do more then one) So a bad apple like chyberpunk will hurt the devs bad. And from past experiences, it doesn't take much to end a studio. (look at Runic games, and their torchlight games. They then went on to release Hob, after that, the studio got closed down.

sometimes, a bad decision can cost a studio dear, especially if they make a bad choice.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 11:48

matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 10:27
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 15:28
matthewfarmery wrote:
Sat, 19. Dec 20, 13:27
If that is to be believed, then the devs / management got special treatment. And that the Devs and or management did lie to Sony and others on the state of the last gen versions. From a very high standing studio, now reduced to nothing but poor standing. I suspect the studio rep will not recover for some time.
Well, there was a big conference held yesterday with the CDPR devs and board members and some of the public. The board members took the hit on the debacle. Devs even called them out directly and the lead dev even said "we told you the game wasn't ready". One even said "It's ironic that we developed a game about corporate exploitation and you used us the way you did."

It's likely we'll see some or all of their board replaced. Their stocks dropped where it was at the end of 2019, loosing almost half their value over night. Share holders are likely to file a lawsuit, for whatever that's worth.

Despite Mr. Who's desires, CDPR ain't going anywhere. If game companies failed over one bad launch, then Ego, EA, Bethesda, Bioware, 2K, and many others would have long been history. He just likes to see people suffer. He sounds like an angry child that's jealous he can't enjoy something other people are. All the problems with the game are technical issues, not loot box and forced advertising BS. They'll be sorted in due time, life will continue on for Mr. Who and the rest of the whiners.
I would point out, that EA is a publisher, so is 2K. So they can publisher many games. So if one flops, they can move on. The problem is, for a dev studio, they generally can only afford to release one game at a time. (unless they can afford to do more then one) So a bad apple like chyberpunk will hurt the devs bad. And from past experiences, it doesn't take much to end a studio. (look at Runic games, and their torchlight games. They then went on to release Hob, after that, the studio got closed down.

sometimes, a bad decision can cost a studio dear, especially if they make a bad choice.
Orly? So ego didn’t recover after the rebirth launch? They just caved to the bitching and moaning and didn’t go on to fix the bugs or release X4 and expansions?

Also, as Mr. Who pointed out, CDPR owns GOG. They're still making money even if Cyberpunk doesn't turn a profit. As I said, they're not going anywhere.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:34

I know that CDPR owns GOG, that will be their saving grace. But if they didn't, then who knows? Also it depends if the studio has deep pockets, or if they are tied to a publisher that holds their future. I think in the case of Egosoft, don't they self publish their games now? If the studio was still financially tied tied to a publisher, (and remember a publisher will only give back some of the profits, if the game does better then expected. (but might depend on what deal the publisher has with a studio)

All i'm saying is, there could be a few reasons for a studio to go under. Even if CDPR isn't going anyway, this bad launch will still hurt their profits, and trust with consumers. And considering it has taken 8 plus years for cyberpunk to be released, can CDPR afford to wait another 8 years to release another game? Especailly with so much backlash over their last one?

I think the management of CDPR really needs to consider carefully the studio's future.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:56

matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:34
I know that CDPR owns GOG, that will be their saving grace. But if they didn't, then who knows? Also it depends if the studio has deep pockets, or if they are tied to a publisher that holds their future. I think in the case of Egosoft, don't they self publish their games now? If the studio was still financially tied tied to a publisher, (and remember a publisher will only give back some of the profits, if the game does better then expected. (but might depend on what deal the publisher has with a studio)

All i'm saying is, there could be a few reasons for a studio to go under. Even if CDPR isn't going anyway, this bad launch will still hurt their profits, and trust with consumers. And considering it has taken 8 plus years for cyberpunk to be released, can CDPR afford to wait another 8 years to release another game? Especailly with so much backlash over their last one?

I think the management of CDPR really needs to consider carefully the studio's future.
Erm... development on Cyberpunk didn't start until after the Blood and Wine expansion was finished for Witcher 3 in 2016. It was nothing more than an idea up to that point with a concept teaser trailer. 4 years for development is pretty normal for big titles.

If they were just gonna throw in the towel and surrender to all the monkeys acting like their life is ruined, they wouldn't be putting out patches. They're still planning expansions. They're not going anywhere. FFS it's just a game.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 14:37

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:56
matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:34
I know that CDPR owns GOG, that will be their saving grace. But if they didn't, then who knows? Also it depends if the studio has deep pockets, or if they are tied to a publisher that holds their future. I think in the case of Egosoft, don't they self publish their games now? If the studio was still financially tied tied to a publisher, (and remember a publisher will only give back some of the profits, if the game does better then expected. (but might depend on what deal the publisher has with a studio)

All i'm saying is, there could be a few reasons for a studio to go under. Even if CDPR isn't going anyway, this bad launch will still hurt their profits, and trust with consumers. And considering it has taken 8 plus years for cyberpunk to be released, can CDPR afford to wait another 8 years to release another game? Especailly with so much backlash over their last one?

I think the management of CDPR really needs to consider carefully the studio's future.
Erm... development on Cyberpunk didn't start until after the Blood and Wine expansion was finished for Witcher 3 in 2016. It was nothing more than an idea up to that point with a concept teaser trailer. 4 years for development is pretty normal for big titles.

If they were just gonna throw in the towel and surrender to all the monkeys acting like their life is ruined, they wouldn't be putting out patches. They're still planning expansions. They're not going anywhere. FFS it's just a game.

Sorry but you are wrong, the development started roughly in 2011, so about 9 years.

from google.
Though the game was likely in development a bit before this, so we'd guess 2011 as the likely earliest year development started. That's roughly 9 years of development time for Cyberpunk 2077. And there you have it! Nearly a decade is a long time to work on something, we hope it pays off for CD Projekt Red!
From what I understand is, a small team was working on cyberpunk around the time of the witcher 3, and only when it was close to finished, did the witcher team then move onto cyberpunk.

Edit from another source
How Long Has Cyberpunk 2077 Been in Development?

Based on what we can work out, we’d guess about 9 years.

We don’t know precisely how long the game has been in development for, and it matters when you count development starts.

Here’s how we get to the number we did, though fair warning it is a rough estimate.

The first trailer was released in 2013, so it’s at least 7 years, but the game would need to be developed a little to produce a meaningful trailer.

A team was supposedly working on the game in 2012 according to a CD Projekt Red Conference, that makes 8 years.
https://www.gfinityesports.com/article/ ... delay-news
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 14:54

matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 14:37
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:56
matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 13:34
I know that CDPR owns GOG, that will be their saving grace. But if they didn't, then who knows? Also it depends if the studio has deep pockets, or if they are tied to a publisher that holds their future. I think in the case of Egosoft, don't they self publish their games now? If the studio was still financially tied tied to a publisher, (and remember a publisher will only give back some of the profits, if the game does better then expected. (but might depend on what deal the publisher has with a studio)

All i'm saying is, there could be a few reasons for a studio to go under. Even if CDPR isn't going anyway, this bad launch will still hurt their profits, and trust with consumers. And considering it has taken 8 plus years for cyberpunk to be released, can CDPR afford to wait another 8 years to release another game? Especailly with so much backlash over their last one?

I think the management of CDPR really needs to consider carefully the studio's future.
Erm... development on Cyberpunk didn't start until after the Blood and Wine expansion was finished for Witcher 3 in 2016. It was nothing more than an idea up to that point with a concept teaser trailer. 4 years for development is pretty normal for big titles.

If they were just gonna throw in the towel and surrender to all the monkeys acting like their life is ruined, they wouldn't be putting out patches. They're still planning expansions. They're not going anywhere. FFS it's just a game.

Sorry but you are wrong, the development started roughly in 2011, so about 9 years.

from google.
Though the game was likely in development a bit before this, so we'd guess 2011 as the likely earliest year development started. That's roughly 9 years of development time for Cyberpunk 2077. And there you have it! Nearly a decade is a long time to work on something, we hope it pays off for CD Projekt Red!
From what I understand is, a small team was working on cyberpunk around the time of the witcher 3, and only when it was close to finished, did the witcher team then move onto cyberpunk.

Edit from another source
How Long Has Cyberpunk 2077 Been in Development?

Based on what we can work out, we’d guess about 9 years.

We don’t know precisely how long the game has been in development for, and it matters when you count development starts.

Here’s how we get to the number we did, though fair warning it is a rough estimate.

The first trailer was released in 2013, so it’s at least 7 years, but the game would need to be developed a little to produce a meaningful trailer.

A team was supposedly working on the game in 2012 according to a CD Projekt Red Conference, that makes 8 years.
https://www.gfinityesports.com/article/ ... delay-news
Sorry, but you're very wrong. Just because they made a trailer 30 years ago, doesn't mean they started work on coding the game. I don't care what some numbnuts on the web guesses but their own staff said they didn't start work on it till after they finished the last Witcher expansion. FMV trailer != anything to do with the actual function or appearance of the game. It might as well have been stick figures flipping each other off for all it was worth. How many FMV sequences for Warcraft and Starcraft bear actual resemblance to the in game graphics and animations? Not a damn one of them. Hell, I doubt they even rendered that trailer themselves. They probably paid someone else to do it.

No coders sat down and started working on this game prior to 2016, period.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 15:01

There were two dev teams, Team black was working on cyberpunk, and team red on the witcher.
From Late 2011 to Mid 2016, Cyberpunk 2077 was being developed by Team BLACK, which includes Mike Pondsmith. Team RED was busy working on Witcher 3 and its expansions. As of now, Team RED is working on Cyberpunk 2077, including Mike Pondsmith while Team BLACK is busy working on Gwent.
So I guess there probably was some coding done, but it was only when team red moved onto the cyberpunk game, did development really start. But details still seems to be sketchy at best. But still, there is pre production stage, which probably does cover what Team black was doing.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 15:24

matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 15:01
There were two dev teams, Team black was working on cyberpunk, and team red on the witcher.
From Late 2011 to Mid 2016, Cyberpunk 2077 was being developed by Team BLACK, which includes Mike Pondsmith. Team RED was busy working on Witcher 3 and its expansions. As of now, Team RED is working on Cyberpunk 2077, including Mike Pondsmith while Team BLACK is busy working on Gwent.
So I guess there probably was some coding done, but it was only when team red moved onto the cyberpunk game, did development really start. But details still seems to be sketchy at best. But still, there is pre production stage, which probably does cover what Team black was doing.
Yes, there was pre-production. That began in 2016.
As soon as we concluded work on Blood and Wine, we were able to go on full speed ahead with CP2077's pre-production
https://d2skuhm0vrry40.cloudfront.net/2 ... bersps.png
Dude, sorry, they didn't write a lick of code, model characters, anything to start moving from conception to production until then. They didn't even have the engine ready. And after doing some digging, I was right, they hired Platige Image to create their teaser trailer.

Again, it was nothing more than a concept. Pondsmith was nothing more than a consultant who helped storyboard the idea. I have no idea where you got the "team black" stuff from but its not in any of their documentation I've been able to find.

Anywho, I'm done arguing over this. It's a pointless digression and is irrelevant to today's goings on. In fact, I'm gonna go hop back in and continue on with my 2nd play through.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 15:40

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/12/cyber ... -timeline/
Those plans obviously include Cyberpunk 2077, CD Projekt Red’s next big game, which was announced in May 2012. I had a look up upstairs at Cyberpunk development when I visited in 2013, but I wasn’t allowed this time. There were around 50 people on the team back then so I imagine pre-production and planning are been done, but beyond that I don’t know. All work done on the RedEngine for The Witcher will be mutually beneficial, and the experience the studio gained likewise.
So pre production started around 2013, that was about 50 people, so Team black.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:06

mmm yes, more guess work by bloggers that contradicts what the devs have said. Yep, totally checks out.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:11

It doesn't matter if it was in development for 4 years, 9 years or 20 years. Fact is it was released in a bad state and too early either way.
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:14

Aparently you cannot play this game too much, because if save file exceds 8 mb it become corrupted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If6RgU14hb0

I feel lucky that I decided not to buy C2077 untill I beat Witcher 3.

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:28

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:11
It doesn't matter if it was in development for 4 years, 9 years or 20 years. Fact is it was released in a bad state and too early either way.
And it's also a fact that they've acknowledged that and they're gonna fix it. People can hate on em all they want to, but they're gonna keep going. They're offering refunds, they're correcting the issues. Seriously, what more can they possibly do? Should they throw their hands up and dwell on their failure and close up shop to make the Mr. Whos of the world happy? Or should they keep on moving forward? It's not like Mr Who, or anyone else that's delighting in this unfortunate circumstance is offering any kind of solution. So should we listen to those dip shits or give CDPR a chance to sort the game out?
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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by chew-ie » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 19:30

mr.WHO wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:14
Aparently you cannot play this game too much, because if save file exceds 8 mb it become corrupted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If6RgU14hb0

I feel lucky that I decided not to buy C2077 untill I beat Witcher 3.
This only affects those who are excessively abuse crafting mechanics in order to make quick bucks. (we are talking about 10000s of crafted items here). If you play thoroughly (making quests, following story line, having fun) for ~100h you won't hit that limit. My endgame save is 5 MB.

Should be addressed though as it sounds like a nasty & unnecessary bug. (the dev fixing that will most certainly facepalm :D )

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 20. Dec 20, 19:49

chew-ie wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 19:30
mr.WHO wrote:
Sun, 20. Dec 20, 18:14
Aparently you cannot play this game too much, because if save file exceds 8 mb it become corrupted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If6RgU14hb0

I feel lucky that I decided not to buy C2077 untill I beat Witcher 3.
This only affects those who are excessively abuse crafting mechanics in order to make quick bucks. (we are talking about 10000s of crafted items here). If you play thoroughly (making quests, following story line, having fun) for ~100h you won't hit that limit. My endgame save is 5 MB.

Should be addressed though as it sounds like a nasty & unnecessary bug. (the dev fixing that will most certainly facepalm :D )
I dunno. Depends on how much data is actually needed to track a save. It's a bigger facepalm, though, to trash talk the game when dude doesn't even have it. Like I said, just an asshole that likes to see shit burn.
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