Brexit

[RegisterMe]

Insane views.

./shakes head in dismay

[CBJ]

I didn't listen to the whole thing, but the random segments I did listen to were utterly depressing. Not, I hasten to add, because of the opinions expressed, but because of the utter inability of those expressing them to provide any coherent basis in evidence or fact for those opinions, or indeed any acknowledgement that evidence or facts were in any way important.

[felter]

It is pretty good though, shows the mentality of some people and how they just can't accept actual facts they just make them up as they go along. I also didn't manage to listen to it all, I got up to the point where Farage was on the radio as soon as I hear his voice my brain shuts down and for some unknown reason I have to go and have a milkshake.

[fiksal]

Obviously when you call radio you have to prepare even a little. But to rant on radio, that's just dumb.

[Bishop149]

I didn't listen to the whole thing, but the random segments I did listen to were utterly depressing. Not, I hasten to add, because of the opinions expressed, but because of the utter inability of those expressing them to provide any coherent basis in evidence or fact for those opinions, or indeed any acknowledgement that evidence or facts were in any way important.

I do think the "What are you most looking forward to about Brexit?" is probably the best question to reveal quite how ridiculous the whole process is.
Most of the answers to this question I've heard are misinformed, but regardless of this ALL the answers are some vague principle that won't actually materially affect the respondent's life one jot even if it did EXACTLY what they think it will.

As someone on the other side of the argument my answer to the inverse of the question: "What are you most fearful of about Brexit?" would be as follows
- My 2yo child not being able to get his life sustaining epilepsy medication.
See the difference?

[Alan Phipps]

@ Bishop: I totally understand where you are coming from, but Brexit is a proposed change to an existing and known situation.

People already know what it is like to be in the EU, hence wanting to leave it means that they must strongly believe that being out will give them some personal lifestyle improvement over remaining in. It is their own perceived improvements or situational remedies that they individually should be able to articulate sensibly, otherwise why would they want to change things?

It should be (have been) up to professional 'subject-matter experts' to advise on behalf of the whole UK of the likely disadvantages and penalties associated with the change of situation because those are likely to be complex, deeply technical or plain experience-based guesses.

[felter]

@ Bishop: I totally understand where you are coming from, but Brexit is a proposed change to an existing and known situation.

People already know what it is like to be in the EU, hence wanting to leave it means that they must strongly believe that being out will give them some personal lifestyle improvement over remaining in. It is their own perceived improvements or situational remedies that they individually should be able to articulate sensibly, otherwise why would they want to change things?

It should be (have been) up to professional 'subject-matter experts' to advise on behalf of the whole UK of the likely disadvantages and penalties associated with the change of situation because those are likely to be complex, deeply technical or plain experience-based guesses.

I have to disagree not with all of what you said but the:

People already know what it is like to be in the EU

They know that they are in the EU and that is it, they think they know what it's like to be in the EU and they blame the EU for all of the bad things that are happening around them, or to their city/town/village. For example I remember an argument where the pro leaver was arguing that their town will be better off after they leave the EU because, their town will have extra money to spend on the likes of repairing the pot holes and improving schools, they were blaming everything that was going wrong in their area on the EU and none of it had anything to do with the EU, it was all down to their local council and UK Government cut backs. It should be fun when we leave and none of what they expect to change doesn't change things will actually will get worse. That's the thing they were/have been listening to the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage and believing the lies they spout and that is what they think living in the EU is, they/we will not know what it is like until we leave, then who will they blame. The only truthful thing Farage has said is, it will get worse before it gets better and I'm out of here and moving to America as soon as Brexit happens.

[Ketraar]

I think, and sorry if this hurts some ones feelings, its related with a sense that the UK should be above most and I have this feeling that some people think that being in the EU means the UK is not the top dog and as such is a bad thing. As one chap said, they will put up with all sorts of nonsense if only they get out of the EU making UK great again.

I'm possibly putting many under the same blanket and there are sure many who have other reasons why they would rather not be part of the EU, but most people that are interviewed (my only sample I'm afraid) tend to be of the above described type. The fact that they still need to somewhat hide it and are somewhat aware that holding this view is (for now) wrong, makes me hopeful for the future.

MFG

Ketraar

[RegisterMe]

Ooopsie. Wrong country, wrong thread .

[Ketraar]

Ooopsie. Wrong country, wrong thread .

Well to be fair at this point its hard to make a distinction...

MFG

Ketraar

[Alan Phipps]

@ felter: I think we are agreeing more than you think. My opinion is that pro-leavers should each be able to say what they think they will gain by leaving - then it is up to experts and other knowledgeable people to explain whether what they expect or hope for is achievable by leaving and whether there are counterbalancing losses or penalties.

In summary:

1. Pro-leavers should be able to state the hoped-for advantages to themselves of leaving. Pro-remainers basically either accept the status quo or seek to effect change from within.
2. Experts should be honestly advising the pro-leavers whether those advantages are achievable by leaving and what the other disadvantages of leaving are that may affect them.

Sure, being uninformed, misinformed or deliberately misled is never a good basis for people making decisions (leavers or remainers).

[BugMeister]

Uxbridge constituent states her opinion of Boris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6jesg5MYOs

[RegisterMe]

Uxbridge constituent states her opinion of Boris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6jesg5MYOs

Quality

[CBJ]

So, Boris has finally come clean and admitted that he's going for no deal. He's finished played around, pretending to try and come up with a solution to the Irish border issue so that he can claim (presumably to his supporters, since nobody else is going to be fooled) that he tried and that the EU are the ones who are being unreasonable. Next up, barely keeping up the pretence of abiding by the law, while actually working hard to ensure that the extension he's legally required to request won't be granted. It's not like any of this is really much of a surprise, but it's quite brazen by UK political standards.

[felter]

What gets me is that they keep making out that the EU are to blame, and that it is the EU that will loose out with a no deal and not us, that is total BS. The Uk leaving without a deal will matter next to nothing to the EU, they will not be the ones that will loose out, it's not them that will have to pay 40-85% more for the basic things like food, it's not them that is going to be short of medication, it is us the UK that is going to loose out on everything, we need them more than they need us.

[Ketraar]

To be fair, its not quite as one-sided as you make out to be though. Losing a trade partner of the size of the UK will hurt many in the EU. Yes the UK will have it harder, but there will be people hurt on the EU side as well. But I dont think this should be a point of contest, which one will hurt more, is a rather idiotic metric to use tbh, since if there is ANYONE that will suffer from this its a bad thing regardless on which side of the border they are.

MFG

Ketraar

[pjknibbs]

So, Boris has finally come clean and admitted that he's going for no deal. He's finished played around, pretending to try and come up with a solution to the Irish border issue so that he can claim (presumably to his supporters, since nobody else is going to be fooled) that he tried and that the EU are the ones who are being unreasonable.

Odd, I didn't think I could dislike the man more, but apparently it *is* possible.

[RegisterMe]

So, Boris has finally come clean and admitted that he's going for no deal. He's finished played around, pretending to try and come up with a solution to the Irish border issue so that he can claim (presumably to his supporters, since nobody else is going to be fooled) that he tried and that the EU are the ones who are being unreasonable. Next up, barely keeping up the pretence of abiding by the law, while actually working hard to ensure that the extension he's legally required to request won't be granted. It's not like any of this is really much of a surprise, but it's quite brazen by UK political standards.

While I agree with you in that I think that's what he was aiming for all along I haven't actually seen anything that states that Johnson has said he's going for no deal. Have you got a link? Especially if it explains how he's going to get round parliament?

[Tamina]

I wonder how much of an impact this is going to have though. The old trading treaty with the EU stays until they have an agreement. So Britain is going to leave but not leave, isn't it?
I also wonder if I have to start stashing Cathedral City cheddar cheese in my basement, now. Just realized this is a British product.

[RegisterMe]

I also wonder if I have to start stashing Cathedral City cheddar cheese in my basement, now. Just realized this is a British product.

Try this, if you can get your hands on it. It's the best cheddar you will ever eat. It's not cheap, but bloody hell is it good, so well worth it if you deserve a treat .