Trump

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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Wed, 3. Mar 21, 15:14

hmm yeah, it does look very like an upside down version of the "Odal" symbol. I'll feed that back into the other conversation.

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Re: Trump

Post by matthewfarmery » Wed, 3. Mar 21, 15:36

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 11720.html

So the golden statue was made in china, not Mexico. I wonder what Trump would have said at the time if he knew?
=

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 3. Mar 21, 16:11

fiksal wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 14:14
So what are the odds that accidental SS symbol at the Republican convention is accidental?


I don't have experience building floor spaces so I can't comment on how easy it is to create one by mistake
It was no more accidental than Stephen Miller's 4 years at the WH was accidental. Remember, Nazis are "very fine people" and it's republicans that wave Nazi flags.

I really don't think anyone should be surprised anymore by seeing white supremacy symbolism at republican conventions. They're just a klan rally with a higher budget and production values. What you should be, though, is angry that nearly half of the political power in this country has embraced fascism and fearmongering while promoting racism and sexism and calling that patriotic.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, "This country needs an enema".
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Wed, 3. Mar 21, 18:48

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 16:11
fiksal wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 14:14
So what are the odds that accidental SS symbol at the Republican convention is accidental?


I don't have experience building floor spaces so I can't comment on how easy it is to create one by mistake
It was no more accidental than Stephen Miller's 4 years at the WH was accidental. Remember, Nazis are "very fine people" and it's republicans that wave Nazi flags.

I really don't think anyone should be surprised anymore by seeing white supremacy symbolism at republican conventions. They're just a klan rally with a higher budget and production values. What you should be, though, is angry that nearly half of the political power in this country has embraced fascism and fearmongering while promoting racism and sexism and calling that patriotic.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, "This country needs an enema".

I dont really want to fall into conspiracy, but this one is a tough one.
The symbol is not very obscure or unknown. Granted I had to google to make sure it was indeed used by SS, but for a half a hundred of people involved in the construction of that stage to claim ignorance is something else.

Also, until now I figured Republicans + CPAC are not necessarily Trump supporters, nor Trump supporters are willfully neo nazis, however... between all the Senators, Trump speech, and this right here seems to mean I am way off with my assumption and giving them way too much slack.


Oh and yes, it is a 'disease'
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Re: Trump

Post by Teladi CEO » Wed, 3. Mar 21, 20:30

fiksal wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 18:48
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 16:11
fiksal wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 14:14
So what are the odds that accidental SS symbol at the Republican convention is accidental?


I don't have experience building floor spaces so I can't comment on how easy it is to create one by mistake
It was no more accidental than Stephen Miller's 4 years at the WH was accidental. Remember, Nazis are "very fine people" and it's republicans that wave Nazi flags.

I really don't think anyone should be surprised anymore by seeing white supremacy symbolism at republican conventions. They're just a klan rally with a higher budget and production values. What you should be, though, is angry that nearly half of the political power in this country has embraced fascism and fearmongering while promoting racism and sexism and calling that patriotic.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, "This country needs an enema".

I dont really want to fall into conspiracy, but this one is a tough one.
The symbol is not very obscure or unknown. Granted I had to google to make sure it was indeed used by SS, but for a half a hundred of people involved in the construction of that stage to claim ignorance is something else.

Also, until now I figured Republicans + CPAC are not necessarily Trump supporters, nor Trump supporters are willfully neo nazis, however... between all the Senators, Trump speech, and this right here seems to mean I am way off with my assumption and giving them way too much slack.


Oh and yes, it is a 'disease'
I think this symbol it more well known than most people realize, I showed it to my family and all of their mouths were agape. However, the symbol does appear in other cultures, when we did a Native American language and symbol class, a symbol for fish looked strikingly similar. So a slim chance that it was meant to be innocent.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 3. Mar 21, 20:48

Teladi CEO wrote:
Wed, 3. Mar 21, 20:30
I think this symbol it more well known than most people realize, I showed it to my family and all of their mouths were agape. However, the symbol does appear in other cultures, when we did a Native American language and symbol class, a symbol for fish looked strikingly similar. So a slim chance that it was meant to be innocent.
Well, sure. Swastikas appear in other cultures and have no direct relationship to Nazi Germany. But, consider the people we're talking about here, the ideals they espouse, their target audience, and their actions over the last 250 years. A symbol of white supremacy is not out of place for that crowd.
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Re: Trump

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 09:17

Ladies and gents, are we really talking about swastikas as a "symbol of white supremacy"? Just that? Because it's not just that. It's the signature on a page written in blood talking about genocide. It's far worse than it looks. It's not about white supremacy, it's about millions of deaths and a war ended just because its last days were so frightening nobody wanted to go on with their atrocities.
It's not just "owning black slaves is my right", because after them it's going to be latinos, than middle eastern people, chinese and snow mexican (canadian). That's what that symbol means, it's not about supremacy, it's about annihilation. Stop them, whatever it takes.

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Re: Trump

Post by pjknibbs » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 13:13

It's worth noting that the swastika was a religious symbol *long* before a certain A. Hitler co-opted it for his own purposes--pretty sure that Hindus in particular still revere it for its original meaning and don't worry about the modern connotations.

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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 14:07

pjknibbs wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 13:13
It's worth noting that the swastika was a religious symbol *long* before a certain A. Hitler co-opted it for his own purposes--pretty sure that Hindus in particular still revere it for its original meaning and don't worry about the modern connotations.
I think/hope we all know that.

Right above this we were taking about the modified Odal rune, which differs from an original. Nazis also changed the swastika as well; the two are drawn differently enough, with different colors even.

And of course context matters for both of these.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 4. Mar 21, 15:14

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Thu, 4. Mar 21, 09:17
Ladies and gents, are we really talking about swastikas as a "symbol of white supremacy"? Just that? Because it's not just that. It's the signature on a page written in blood talking about genocide. It's far worse than it looks. It's not about white supremacy, it's about millions of deaths and a war ended just because its last days were so frightening nobody wanted to go on with their atrocities.
It's not just "owning black slaves is my right", because after them it's going to be latinos, than middle eastern people, chinese and snow mexican (canadian). That's what that symbol means, it's not about supremacy, it's about annihilation. Stop them, whatever it takes.
No no no. I merely mentioned that as an example of a thing with alternative meaning depending on the person(s) involved. The main topic of my point is the symbolism used by Trump's cultists and the GOP and how unsurprising it is.

I don't think any of us have any doubts or need a refresher on why emulating Nazis is bad. As near as I can tell, none of us active in this discussion are republicans.
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Re: Trump

Post by matthewfarmery » Sat, 6. Mar 21, 17:45

The plot thickens

Contact found between Proud Boys member and Trump White House associate before Capitol riots, report says

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... ments-area

I bet a lot of money Trump will have full knowledge of this. So its starting to look like the capital rioters were indeed pre planned. I hope the FBI will get the names of those in involved. And hopefully tie this to trump. But yeah, the plot thickens. This probably could be far more serious then the watergate scandal? I guess time will tell.
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Re: Trump

Post by Tahtohnkah » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50

Hi! (new to the game) I was perusing the titles on the forum list and found this thread, and I must say I'm quite impressed; from the first post to the last. I'd like to kick-in at the end (which might be a beginning) to offer some tips, as it were. Firstly, I was raised in Alabama. My first day of school there were riot police in helmets with shields at the building entrance - yes; integration. Being from there I know several fourth-generation Klan members. And, believe me, they are proud members indeed. I've listened to bigotry spoken as common sense most of my life from people who don't seem to give a tinker's damn about "other people's" morality. AND, I've come to understand what is meant by liberal is "anyone who doesn't agree with me." There's no need to cut these people any slack. They don't want it. They aren't embarrassed in the least by their vision of "society."

I've heard people say for forty years "Trump ought to be president" and "Trump would make a good president." Along with that I've heard, "I wish I was Donald Trump." In the mind's eye of the deep south, Donald is successful. (And rasselin' is real!) SO, I wasn't surprised to see (after rejecting a slate of six of their own party leaders) the Republicans call Donald in to bail them out. It was told to me several times, "I don't care what kind of person he is. We only need him to sign a few things." The main issue is and always will be with these folks - Roe vs Wade. The Senate and House are now filled with one-issue ignorants elected for one reason; they'll vote to overturn Roe vs Wade. It doesn't matter if their only qualification was pest control (Tom Delay), they got the Christian Right vote. That tips the scales from roughly 33% rightwing to 51 to 54 percent...making these elections neck and neck.

Of course, the racists jumped on the bandwagon. Don's daddy was Klan. Don is known (he did the WWE circuit) as "on the right side" of this. And, none of what transpired came as much of a surprise. That he didn't do more damage while he was in wasn't a surprise, either, as he never really wanted the job, and did as little at the office as he could get away with. (FORE!) Now the racists are encouraged, and think they're organized, they'll be vocal and visible for some time to come. However, they've always been there. Passing the Civil Rights Act didn't make them suddenly disappear. Going "ew" whenever one spoke, didn't either.

What America has never done, and apparently a lot of European countries come to find out, is structurally address the racism in its midst. It's a topic that's been taboo for centuries now. Maybe it's unpleasant. Maybe one never knows when one's speaking to a racist. You find it in your family. You find it among your neighbors. People you happen to be sitting next to on a bus, or while awaiting jury duty...yes, of course...all could be militant racists who might become ANGRY if you should point it out to be a major fault. (I'm reminded of a political cartoon I once saw, of an Irish thug, holding a meek little Irish businessman up in the air by the front of his shirt. Caption: Are you Catholic or Protestant? Of course...you tell ME first, then I'll tell YOU?)

So...they've always been with us. Will they always be with us? Is there a way for a modern, sophisticated society to use the assets and strengths of that modernity to winnow away, or ween out such primitive and brutish sensibilities? While we're at it, won't sexism (on both sides) and the backward notion that rich people are successful (the myth that gave us President Don) and therefore better, be included in this...attempt to further evolve ourselves? Or, am I right in assuming when I hear people say we've evolved as far as we can...they actually MEAN it?

ALL that aside. Let me congratulate you on your civilized and unusually well-informed discussion that has run the life of this debacle. After all, communication with one another is all we really have to work with. No?

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Re: Trump

Post by Rug » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 10:27

Fantastic post tahtohnkah.

Clear and calm.

Look forward to hearing more from you.

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Re: Trump

Post by clakclak » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 17:53

Tahtohnkah wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50
[...]

ALL that aside. Let me congratulate you on your civilized and unusually well-informed discussion that has run the life of this debacle. After all, communication with one another is all we really have to work with. No?
I pride myself on being exceptionally ill-informed no matter the topic, thank you very much. :lol: As for the rest of the people here, half of them are at an age where the nurse no longer cuts their bread in the morning, because quite frankly blending it is easier and faster and if we are being honest they lost their sense of taste at some point after the great permian extinction, but slightly before the dinosaurs decided to nuke themselve once the realised they had angered Cthulhu. So it is hardly suprising these people know a lot about let's say religion, because many of them knew Buddah and Jesus personally, or engeneering, as I think it was BugMeister who figured out how to use fire back in the day.

As we are speaking of gods allready, the vengeful mods will surely strike me down if I do not get back on topic quickly and I don't want any of these old geezers to tell me to get off their lawn again, so here is a Reuters special report about Trump appointed judges apperently deporting people they should not have been deporting, which I guess by now is about as suprising as MrBadger's affinity for old east german cameras. He claims to be a collector but I have a theory that he is actually a former MI6 agent trying to destroy all evidence of his past life.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 18:42

Tahtohnkah wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50
Hi! (new to the game) I was perusing the titles on the forum list and found this thread, and I must say I'm quite impressed; from the first post to the last. I'd like to kick-in at the end (which might be a beginning) to offer some tips, as it were. Firstly, I was raised in Alabama. My first day of school there were riot police in helmets with shields at the building entrance - yes; integration. Being from there I know several fourth-generation Klan members. And, believe me, they are proud members indeed. I've listened to bigotry spoken as common sense most of my life from people who don't seem to give a tinker's damn about "other people's" morality. AND, I've come to understand what is meant by liberal is "anyone who doesn't agree with me." There's no need to cut these people any slack. They don't want it. They aren't embarrassed in the least by their vision of "society."
Seems you and I are in the same boat, the SS Red Neck. Our experiences with the local denizens appear to have been virtually identical, though I didn't have riot police at my schools. However, my family took part in the "great white flight" from Jefferson Co, and Birmingham, and have slowly pushed further and further away any time the collective skin tone gradient moves a few shades darker than white in their neighborhoods.

And I've been saying the same thing for months, in so many words. Kick em in the teeth, that's all they'll understand. There is no compromise with them. They've long since abandoned any rational ideology in politics and only take their queues from the daily cartoon shows on Faux News. There's no longer any platform of theirs that doesn't involve some or multiple forms of bigotry and the so called "party of morals" was perhaps the biggest con of the 20'th century.

In the words of one of their own mascots, "you can't fix stupid".
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 18:59

Tahtohnkah wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50
Hi! (new to the game) I was perusing the titles on the forum list and found this thread
Hey, welcome!

I am not sure our discussions in this thread had been particularly clean. But I think most of us are doing our best.

Tahtohnkah wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50
Firstly, I was raised in Alabama. My first day of school there were riot police in helmets with shields at the building entrance - yes; integration. Being from there I know several fourth-generation Klan members. And, believe me, they are proud members indeed. I've listened to bigotry spoken as common sense most of my life from people who don't seem to give a tinker's damn about "other people's" morality. AND, I've come to understand what is meant by liberal is "anyone who doesn't agree with me." There's no need to cut these people any slack. They don't want it. They aren't embarrassed in the least by their vision of "society."
That! is a hell of an experience.

I am really interested in so to speak first hand experience of that history. For me that's a text book history, as my beginning of being an American came quite a bit after all that.
Care to run a separate Topic with this?


Tahtohnkah wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50
So...they've always been with us. Will they always be with us? Is there a way for a modern, sophisticated society to use the assets and strengths of that modernity to winnow away, or ween out such primitive and brutish sensibilities? While we're at it, won't sexism (on both sides) and the backward notion that rich people are successful (the myth that gave us President Don) and therefore better, be included in this...attempt to further evolve ourselves? Or, am I right in assuming when I hear people say we've evolved as far as we can...they actually MEAN it?

ALL that aside. Let me congratulate you on your civilized and unusually well-informed discussion that has run the life of this debacle. After all, communication with one another is all we really have to work with. No?
Maybe that's as far as "they" want to be, but the progress is inevitable, because change is inevitable whether anyone likes it or not. As profitable as it might be to exploit people and put them down into lower class citizens, history shows, that at some point heads roll of guillotines. And if not that dramatic, then it's simply not an efficient system. A more efficient system where everyone is given maximum freedom and opportunity. That is at least my, maybe optimistic, observation.


Communication and information is a big one indeed. So is early education.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 20:47

Tahtohnkah wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 00:50
Hi! (new to the game) I was perusing the titles on the forum list and found this thread, and I must say I'm quite impressed; from the first post to the last. I'd like to kick-in at the end (which might be a beginning) to offer some tips, as it were. Firstly, I was raised in Alabama. My first day of school there were riot police in helmets with shields at the building entrance - yes; integration. Being from there I know several fourth-generation Klan members. And, believe me, they are proud members indeed. I've listened to bigotry spoken as common sense most of my life from people who don't seem to give a tinker's damn about "other people's" morality. AND, I've come to understand what is meant by liberal is "anyone who doesn't agree with me." There's no need to cut these people any slack. They don't want it. They aren't embarrassed in the least by their vision of "society."
Well, to be honest, whilst most of us have tried to stay polite and constructive, we haven't always managed that, myself included. Thanks go to the mods for keeping us on the relatively straight and narrow.

Anyway, I'm a Brit, but I have just come off the back of reading a biography of Frederick Douglass, a history of the Civil War, and a biography of Grant. To borrow an overly used phrase, history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes (and echoes). One of the things I find most distressing about the last four years was how much of what we saw we previously saw during the Democrat (as was) / South attempts to overturn and dismantle the never completed work of "Reconstruction".

Outright racism; hyperbole and deliberate lies in the press; active and deliberate voter suppression; gerrymandering; the conflux of race, money, power and "white" religion; the prevalence of Klanners (then) and "militias" (now); utter corruption in government (cronyism, patronage, contract awards, title or position); culture wars (ie shorthand for "I feel my culture, which I believe to be the culture of this nation, to be threatened"); the use of law enforcement to keep the black population down.

The list goes on. It's an outrage, and a tragedy :(.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 21:15

I say we go Starship Troopers and pick and choose who are allowed to breed and weed out these family lines that profess to white superiority. It should be fairly easy to spot them, they'll be the family trees with just a few, if any, branches.
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Re: Trump

Post by Teladi CEO » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 21:39

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 21:15
I say we go Starship Troopers and pick and choose who are allowed to breed and weed out these family lines that profess to white superiority. It should be fairly easy to spot them, they'll be the family trees with just a few, if any, branches.
That sounds very fascist, I’ve read Starship troopers, I don’t think it was promoting that.

Well...that means because of my cousin I ain’t having kids.
We don’t know what paradise is like, but probably it’s blue magenta, flecked with pink. But even if it’s green and red-checked we should make the most of it. -Boron saying

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 8. Mar 21, 21:48

Teladi CEO wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 21:39
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 8. Mar 21, 21:15
I say we go Starship Troopers and pick and choose who are allowed to breed and weed out these family lines that profess to white superiority. It should be fairly easy to spot them, they'll be the family trees with just a few, if any, branches.
That sounds very fascist, I’ve read Starship troopers, I don’t think it was promoting that.

Well...that means because of my cousin I ain’t having kids.
lol they did. Only citizens could have kids and citizenship wasn't a guarantee. Probably is a bit on the fascist side but we're talking about Nazis, so... should we care if they don't like it?
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