Afghanistan

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BaronVerde
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by BaronVerde » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 18:34

I see.

Sure, there's a lot of clearing and processing, and I find there should be, as open and unbiased as possible.

I am inclined to trust the WP and NY Times to be able to judge the quality of their sources, and both aren't known for spreading misinformation. The third "writeup" I linked is certainly biased, they even say so. Maybe we get a more detailed statement from those who executed the strike.

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As for Afghanistan, besides all the harassment that's going on from the Taliban to the population, it also seems to sink in that they need foreign collaboration to keep the country running. That might enable some external influence, speculatively to the better.

But if I knew the future I wouldn't hang around here :roll:

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Vertigo 7
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 19:56

BaronVerde wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 17:55
I want to add, if someone uses humans as shields, there is still the other one that pulls the trigger. Even in cheap Hollywood movies the good guys retreat (or switch the phasers to stun :-)) when innocents are involved.
You do get that if "the good guys retreat" the bad guys carry out their mission and kill even more innocent people than may be killed as an unintentional consequence otherwise, right? Life isn't a movie.
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clakclak
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by clakclak » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 11:24

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 19:56
BaronVerde wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 17:55
I want to add, if someone uses humans as shields, there is still the other one that pulls the trigger. Even in cheap Hollywood movies the good guys retreat (or switch the phasers to stun :-)) when innocents are involved.
You do get that if "the good guys retreat" the bad guys carry out their mission and kill even more innocent people than may be killed as an unintentional consequence otherwise, right? Life isn't a movie.
Life isn't a movie, thus thinking in "good" and "bad" guys is to simple. There is more context here. Ali, the 16 year old who works for the Taliban to put food on the table for his mother and siblings after his father died is not the same person as Akhundzada and certainly not as bad a human.

An average American soldier doing his job is no Erik Prince making a large profit as long as the war continues.

At the end of the day, the moral question of military interventions is rarely ever as easily answered as it was during World War 2.

BaronVerde
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by BaronVerde » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 18:58

There's a third independent report questioning the military version:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/14/asia ... index.html
I personally am deeply convinced that as long as there is such rhetoric "to hunt people down and make them pay", there can hardly be peace. Somebody must put the gun back into the holster, verbally and quite literally.


Right in that area habitable space is shrinking due to climate change, those people are running into real problems and war mongering does not ease their lifes. For all good that the protective forces have done in the past, it has ended abruptly and there's danger of humanitarian catastrophe now.

I may be wrong and happy to discuss without getting personal. Has the OP abandoned the thread ?

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felter
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by felter » Wed, 15. Sep 21, 03:20

There is supposed to be a lot of in house fighting amongst the Taliban, there are even reports that their current leader has died recently. It seems to be that a lot of them are not happy with who is in their new Government, while a lot of them are not happy because that they are not in the new Government, with both sides saying we beat the Americans. Also, a lot of the ones who are in the Government are on international terrorist wanted lists, and are wanted in America for terror related crimes. What the Americans should do, is when the Taliban government do meet up, they should drop a few missiles down their throats and take them all out in one single action, solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.
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pjknibbs
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 15. Sep 21, 07:46

felter wrote:
Wed, 15. Sep 21, 03:20
What the Americans should do, is when the Taliban government do meet up, they should drop a few missiles down their throats and take them all out in one single action, solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.
Yeah, because there are no possible negative consequences to launching a surprise attack on the official government of a country you're not at war with. Nosirree, can't see anything going wrong with that at all. :roll:

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felter
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by felter » Thu, 16. Sep 21, 00:04

pjknibbs wrote:
Wed, 15. Sep 21, 07:46
felter wrote:
Wed, 15. Sep 21, 03:20
What the Americans should do, is when the Taliban government do meet up, they should drop a few missiles down their throats and take them all out in one single action, solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.
Yeah, because there are no possible negative consequences to launching a surprise attack on the official government of a country you're not at war with. Nosirree, can't see anything going wrong with that at all. :roll:
When did anyone actually recognize the Taliban or any of the outlaw terrorists that consist of that so-called Government as an official Government, not just that no one has ever said they were at war with them or even for the matter that no one has ever said they weren't. Also, it is done all the time by Governments, including both America and the UK when the target is known Terrorists, so why is it any different this time. Then you also have to ask what will the consequences be by not doing it, if you leave terrorists to do whatever they want, eventually it will lead to another 911.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by pjknibbs » Thu, 16. Sep 21, 06:48

You do realise that removing the existing power structure without any clear idea of what to replace it with is exactly what caused the current mess in the first place? You want to spend another 20 years in Afghanistan and lose another 2000+ US troops? Because doing what you just said is exactly how that happens.

BaronVerde
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by BaronVerde » Thu, 16. Sep 21, 08:05

pjknibbs wrote:
Thu, 16. Sep 21, 06:48
You do realise that removing the existing power structure without any clear idea of what to replace it with is exactly what caused the current mess in the first place?
This is my opinion, too.

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