New PC

[BaronVerde]

Yep, in the beginning of my life with Linux I kept lively data like /var on a a different partition as well. just because I found a fancy long list of partitions, well, fancy

Ok. It is ordered, thanks for your help !

Since I live behind customs barriers it may take 4 weeks and need additional paperwork. I look forward to how this turns out.

[BaronVerde]

Guys, do you use or recommend dust filters for the intake fans ?

My PCs allways stand on the floor and thus are full of aeolian sediments aka dust. Every now and then I open the cases and cause some uproar among the dust, but leave the sticky fine grained stuff. Now the new case comes with glass doors so there's at least optical inconvenience with the dust.

I see dust filters exist and come in all complexity and price levels, and I could watch hours long yt videos, but that's not so effective

Any experience, do they help, and more important don't the impact airflow too much ? Do they tend to get clogged ?

[CBJ]

I'm pretty sure a dust filter will impede the airflow a fair bit less than a thick layer of dust all over your PC's internals. It's also easier, and less risky, to clean regularly. Personally I would always use filters where possible.

[BaronVerde]

Additional filters, that is. My question was imprecise.

Well yeah, but dust on the parts doesn't hamper airflow through the case. All the cases have some sort of net or perforated shroud in front of the intakes that holds back the coarser clasts so to say, it is the fine stuff that gets through and precipitates inside.

Am just thinking, if I had more suction fans than intake, than there'd be a slight acceleration inside and possibly less opportunity for dust to stay in, right ?

Oh well, looks like I am overthinking this ...

[Vertigo 7]

no, dust in the case doesn't impede airflow but it does trap heat on the ICs it settles on and will cause other issues if left to accumulate. In turn, the dust filters trap most of the dust and provide you an easy method to clean off without having to disassemble your PC or move it to the garage to get the air compressor after it.

[jlehtone]

Am just thinking, if I had more suction fans than intake, than there'd be a slight acceleration inside and possibly less opportunity for dust to stay in, right ?

There are debates about what is better.

One view is that if you have more exhaust than intake, then air will enter via all openings of the case. Likewise, if you have more intake than exhaust, then air enters via those fans that have dust filters, so dust from incoming air is more likely to hit the filter.

Furthermore, turbulent air might be more effective at taking heat than air that flows straight through, i.e. if true, supports the "more intake" setup.

If you have layer of dust on your components, it will be insulating transfer of heat.


Which case did you choose? Does it have easy to clean filters?

There are third party filters, like DEMCiflex, for cases that do not have filters of their own.

[Tamina]

This is the reference I am using for this question if I EVER come around building my own PC ^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLX54ounENY Correct me if this is wrong or if there is a better one

[BaronVerde]

Which case did you choose? Does it have easy to clean filters?

There are third party filters, like DEMCiflex, for cases that do not have filters of their own.

They offered me this one box: https://www.nox-xtreme.com/en/chassis/h ... ck-edition. I didn't have much of a choice from a local supplier, that's why I dropped the 'no lights' specification.

Reading the hints here I do tend to additional filtering, but I will wait until I see everything before me.

Thanks, @Tamina, will have a look at the video.

Edit: To summarize, and someone interrupt me if I am wrong :
In order to have flow through the case we need some fans suck in, some fans blow out. Flow through the case inevitably trivially means dust inside, so we want to protect the intake fans with filters, specifically the ones on the bottom if the case is standing on the floor. Further details depend on the case and setup.

[Tamina]

Yeah but surprisingly the one with only intakes has more dust than the one with fans going out only.
Like I would have imagined the overpressure causing the dust not being able to settle while the underpressure is sucking dust in through all unfiltered gaps.. but apparently it is the other way around ^^

[BaronVerde]

@jlehtone wrote:

Furthermore, turbulent air might be more effective at taking heat than air that flows straight through, i.e. if true, supports the "more intake" setup.

That's interesting. I know from architecture that it is the laminar flow that cools pretty effectively by removing heat, while turbulent flow can collect heat better from a surface ... but only to a degree because it's the delta between surface and air temperature that determines the amount of heat taken up. So, if local turbulence remains too long, it becomes very ineffective. A physics guy would probably find a more fancy description with advection, convection, transport and all that

That's also why I believe that only one direction (in XOR out) is not the right way to go if the premise is to remove heat from the box. It may be an approach to reduce dust simply because the volume of air pumped through the box (and thuis the amount of particles in supension) is much less compared to a setup designed for throughput.

Yes, while apparently 'keep dust out' and 'cool the interior' are mutually exclusive requirements, I would now also assume the best(tm) way is to have a slight overpressure, so that intakes can be filtered and all the other openings have mostly outflow. That reduces dust in the first place while guaranteeing a constant flow, and that what still settles will be removed manually every now or rather then. A slight temperature rise from the compression is probably negligible. Thi is more of a question than assertion, though.

[jlehtone]

Did LTT do any video when they did set up those boxes a year earlier about the cooling efficiency of the three modes?

In order to have flow through the case we need some fans suck in, some fans blow out. Flow through the case inevitably trivially means dust inside, so we want to protect the intake fans with filters, specifically the ones on the bottom if the case is standing on the floor. Further details depend on the case and setup.

So it seems.

I have had something under the case to provide more airspace. This example has small blocks (even though it isn't on floor): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yg3dsM ... sp=sharing

Frankly, pictures of cases directly on fluffy carpet give a bad feeling.


The Nox Hummer Nexus has filters on top and side with magnets. Easy to take out and clean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_MwH6Zn3k
Filter at bottom does not look as easy: https://api.nox-xtreme.com/thumbnails/p ... ack_15.png

The front is closed with front fans drawing air from side slits of the front. There seems to be no filters or good place for one.

Fractal Define in my photo has a front door. There is front filter. With door closed the air flows from side slits just like in Hummer Nexus. The cooling improves, if the door is open (at slight cost of quietness.).

[BaronVerde]

Ah, cool (pun), that's what was meant when they said "magnetic". I already thought they confused magnetic and electrostatic, because I couldn't imagine how magnets attract dust. I mean other than from lying around

The unfiltered intakes of the Nox aren't that optimal ... beginner's mistake But I can still stuff a cut out filter mat in the openings and fit the fans individually with filters.

[Gavrushka]

I'm pretty sure a dust filter will impede the airflow a fair bit less than a thick layer of dust all over your PC's internals. It's also easier, and less risky, to clean regularly. Personally I would always use filters where possible.

Prior to Christmas, I bought my first computer which came with magnetic dust filters, one on the top where the CPU radiator is, and a second at the front, sat on the inside of 2x240mm fans. - I can't begin to tell you how good they are, and just how easy to clean. - After seven months, the inside of my PC looks pristine, I mean not even one visible speck of dust, and all I have to do is remove and wipe down the two filters every few weeks, a job that takes a couple of minutes max.

Despite having a 3070, 3 internal drives and another expansion card on my (full size) MoBo, I see internal resting temperatures all-but identical to ambient. I do have a case maxed out with additional fans, but I'd never dream of having a case that wasn't clad in dust filters now.

[Tamina]

That's interesting. I know from architecture that it is the laminar flow that cools pretty effectively by removing heat, while turbulent flow can collect heat better from a surface ...

Real laminar flow is insulating, terrible for heat transfer. I guess in architecture the goal is to exchange air in a room and not to cool furniture. That said, you will never ever reach laminar flow in a PC case. It is hard enough to create in dedicated wind tunnels that were built just for this

Maybe intake fans behind a filter are bad because they are literally sucking the dust through the filters, with all their force. I wonder if it is better to have bulged filters with a bigger surface area to compensate for that, while at the same time mitigating friction at the filters.

[Alan Phipps]

I find that doing a bit more frequent housework (eg vacuuming and dusting) in the room where the PC is does absolute wonders for reducing the numbers of dust bunnies both inside and outside the PC. Not eating at the PC and even not scratching your head too much while working (difficult with some apps, I know) is great for that too! (Close proximity of hairy pets to computers is probably a bad idea too.)

[jlehtone]

Maybe intake fans behind a filter are bad because they are literally sucking the dust through the filters, with all their force. I wonder if it is better to have bulged filters with a bigger surface area to compensate for that, while at the same time mitigating friction at the filters.

I had Fractal Define R3, where front filter is held with screws; more laborious to take out for cleaning. The fans were right behind filter.
I tried to use Gentle Typhoon fans. Alas, they were "thicker" (than Fractal's) and thus their center did scrub the filter. Not ok.

I did end up moving fans behind the drive cage (and attach with zip ties). The fans did draw air (hopefully) through filter and through the drive cage. There were thus over 12 cm between filter and fan. A downside was that there were then 25 mm less space for graphics card; had to choose from short ones.

Was that better or worse for cooling and/or dust? Did not measure. I do agree with Alan that frequent housework is a key.

[BaronVerde]

Danger with filters inside of the box is that they partly just turn around the inside air instead of getting fresh one from outside. Drive cages tend to be somehwat holey, and getting the fan airtight behind it I can imagine isn't easy.

Anyway, I have ordered 3 filters for the intake fans.

Of course I allways take my housekeeping chores serious ! Well, almost. I mean mostly. When I find the time ...

[Tamina]

I find that doing a bit more frequent housework (eg vacuuming and dusting) in the room where the PC is does absolute wonders for reducing the numbers of dust bunnies both inside and outside the PC.

Good advice. We should all get an Alan Are you Roomba compatible?

That said, a vacuum bot with HEPA filters does wonders as well but I think having an optimal fan combination to reduce maintenance is always a good idea ^^

[Alan Phipps]

"We should all get an Alan" I think I have a new fan. <I'll get my coat.>

[BaronVerde]

... reduce maintenance is always a good idea ^^

Precisely !

I have a new fan.

An intake fan, to be precise

... on second thought, cleaning up is always exhausting ...