Please cancel any planned rewards for the current MTS beta

[Nrith]

Alright. I expect to get a lot of new friends with this topic. Obviously in a purely non sarcastic way whatsoever. But please bear with me and here me out for a minute.

Dear devs, I do intend to ask you according to the topic to cancel each and every planned final reward, assuming there'd even be one. The reasoning is actually pretty simple. As stated in various other threads, the common opinion of the MTS beta appears to be rather negative overall. Apparently lots of players are stuck with inactive teams and lost their optimism to successfully conclude the Season. Legit, granted... Remarks about just leaving the game open to send ventures every once in a while or even to automate the process increase. I get the impression the focus shifted to progressing through the Operations as a kind of chore instead of something fun to do while playing the actual game and this conclusion means the whole project already failed, in my personal opinion.

Still, it's a beta. It's purpose should be to test things out and have people willingly participate to support the development. Again, that's only my opinion, including everything following up so I'll refrain from stressing this out once more.

By completely removing final rewards and of course communicating this decision, you could release those people feeling pressured to compete further for the imaginary-worth-it-whatever. I'm pretty sure there'll still be couple of players left despite less than optimal team compositions who'd still proceed just out of curiosity or because they're currently having fun nontheless.

(Another possibility could be to just state "everyone who participated will receive reward X either way, thanks for joining!" or something like that. But I can hardly mention that now since it would totally undermine the topics impact.)

To my fellow players, before starting to flame and blame me now, please let me get a little headstart to find somewhere safe to hide. Let's say about three weeks? Or maybe only two? Pretty please?

[grapedog]

a real issue for me is it being tied into one save game.

i used one save for the first two operations. i was team leader at the end of the first operation, and in 2nd place at the end of the second operation. The save I was using was an older save, and not much to be done with it. So I switched saves. I lost all my team points, for no good reason. And ended up getting put back onto the same team. Now my team does have 4-5 active members, since restarting at zero I'm already back to halfway up the team and I'm not as active as I was in the first two operations.

It needs to be easier to swap saves, without losing your position or your points. I don't understand the reason for it. if I can keep my inventory, and I get put back onto the same team, why am I not keeping all the points I earned?

Also, 60 days I just a really long time for a game like this for consistent work.

[Nrith]

Fully agree with you there. I even made the same experience with team leadership(s) and starting a new save (see this thread).

I regard this as technical aspect which needs to be evaluated throughout the beta. And hopefully improved. I don't see any reason either why my multiverse progress should be tied to my save game, especially since we're literally talking about multiverse here. Kinda ironic. Then again the saveslotissue ain't tied to the Operations or missions mechanics and thus ain't related to grinding progress through sheer stubbornness only to receive some kind of fictional reward in the end. That shouldn't be the incentive at all, neither for the beta nor for a released MTS version.

[Starlight_Corporation]

While I get the feeling, who not try the opposite (as you stated in the bracket)? Give everyone who participated the same rewards. This way folks who got disillusioned by the beta and/or teams still get something for the time invested.

And yus it is a public beta, we knew there would be issues & stuff, it is part of why it is being tested, to see what works & what doesn't. I can see why they tried it the way they did, as the current Venture mission system is similar to what several MMO's do (Star Trek online with bridge officers & fleet ships and World of Warcraft with the war table thing), but imo it works there because you're expected to log in daily already (it is an MMO), but in X4 it doesn't mix well with how it works as it is single player. Lack of very long Venture assignments play into it as well.
Part of why the team aspect fails too imo, think in an MMO it would be a neat feature, but in X4 it just worsens the experience (especially with losing points when swapping teams/saves). Might work if people could know each other during gameplay. Think it would be best to expand the team chat feature to the whole side (Coalition chat instead of team chat)

That said, I do enjoy the visiting ships (of both sides), so hope that is a feature that will remain in future Ventures.

[Axeface]

you could release those people feeling pressured to compete further for the imaginary-worth-it-whatever.

Isnt the unfortunate truth that these systems are designed specifically, in any game that has them, to do this exactly? There is no reason for a system to run in real time in a game other than to make people feel compelled, for the sake of the reward alone, to return to the game (FOMO). Usually these systems have 0 gameplay attached to them (WOW, dragon age) - at least there has been an attempt here in X4 to make it somewhat more built into the game with missions you actually play (not just a click) and it also attempts to use these mechanics which are usually purely predatory to foster some kind of community spirit. But honestly I dont think it is going to work very well because of the fundamental intention of these systems. I've also come to realise that having the system in my game completely ruins my experience, so personally I am absolutely only doing it (with a throwaway save I dont actually play) for the reward and only do more than the bare minimum out of some feeling of responsibility to the team, which is also not healthy either imo.

[EGO_Aut]

The beta is an interesting experiment, I've been surprised at times by the ships and missions that have come. Highlights were diplomat ship escort and and laser tower Gatecamp. For this I was rewarded with a Yasur almost every day, and bugged mission rewards, unfortunately I noticed it too late.

More interaction with other players would be great, how about introducing shared multiverse missions? A countdown involving multiple ships of a team would be cool.

The missions reward and duration should be improved, the first season also lasts forever. Everybody should get the same at the end, winners and loosers. Mission Rewards should be good enough to play the multiverse experiment.

I know that an implementation is not easy for ES. But a multiplayer in which a second person could help would be desirable. Even if only limited to one (Xenon) sector to avoid synchronizing NPC traffic......dreams

[Ormac]

Yeah Operation 2 seemed the most interesting set of missions. Operation 3 with the measuring of timers just seem to say we're a server based game now. Had been wondering about continuing my online save into offline at the end of the beta. It's been my testing game enviornment. But I'm going to have to revert to the backup at the start of MTS.

[Nrith]

Thanks for your opinons, everyone! I do agree with a lot of your statements too. Especially ..

you could release those people feeling pressured to compete further for the imaginary-worth-it-whatever.

Isnt the unfortunate truth that these systems are designed specifically, in any game that has them, to do this exactly?

.. yes, you're right! However I rather think that would be suitable for a working, tested and player-acknowledged release version of the MTS. At least I don't see any need for a beta to bait (and frustrate) players for testing and helping to improve the feature first and foremost. Sure, a little something as thank you would be nice either way. Just not under competitional conditions.


I'm also curious how the MTS is going to proceed after the Seasons end. Would really miss all those lovely mod-part-deliv.. uh.. I mean Visitors. Of course.

[RoverTX]

I would go as far as to say not only remove the teams, but also the whole coalition system. On top of that define a phase not by time but by target total of all players output.

Then phase rewards are granted to everyone and everyone who signs up in the future.

If you want to build a community that isn’t toxic the system should be fully collaborative and without FOMO.

In effect make ventures like an online shared research.

[fade7]

nah its fine the way it is for the most part ... they are not going to change the whole system to pander to a few casuals who are crying about not getting any rewards when they are not contributing that much to the system anyway.

the players with the most points and teams with the most points should get the lion's share of the rewards as was stated at the beginning.

however i am against players using multiple venture docks getting the same share of rewards as those with only 1.

if a player is using multiple venture docks then their points should be divided by their venture docks .. otherwise its just simply pay to win .. but dont reveal this is how it will work until the beta is finishing .. so that way they cant refund .. lol =) .. BOOM

in the end its hard to make a proper judgement when we have no idea what the reward is .. or how it will be distributed. but the best players and the best teams should get the best rewards ... the competitive aspect is the best part IMO.

this is a Multiversal War ..... not a pre-school gold star equality debate.

[fade7]

there does need to be some way to boot inactive players from a team though ... a player who logged on once to get their free Yasur and then never played after that is dead weight to any team they are on ... or people that are inactive for a full operation should be able to get kicked by a team leader. if they are not active then there should be no remorse for removing them .. they are dead weight .. and dead weight shouldnt get a say in anything..

if its a active team member that went on vacation or something then thats fine as long as he communicates with the team leader ... still though the team leader should have power over other team members who are doing little to nothing as to wether or not they are able to stay on the team. if they were contributing in any meaninful way they wouldnt get booted anyway.

[grapedog]

nah its fine the way it is for the most part ... they are not going to change the whole system to pander to a few casuals who are crying about not getting any rewards when they are not contributing that much to the system anyway.

You say that now... but what about in a year, or two years... how many people are going to be playing ventures enough to fill up teams on both coalitions, or to maintain teams.




Leave coalitions alone but get rid of teams. Put more focus on the missions players actually manually have to do, to contribute to operations. Leave the sending of ships off on venture missions as bonuses, but not the main drivers of contributions. Also, don't tie it to a specific save game.

[dtpsprt]

.....................................

Leave coalitions alone but get rid of teams. Put more focus on the missions players actually manually have to do, to contribute to operations. Leave the sending of ships off on venture missions as bonuses, but not the main drivers of contributions. Also, don't tie it to a specific save game.

Since it is totally impossible to have the same ships with the same configuration and the same crew regarding composition, experience and names in two save games, then they'll have to be tied to the same save game. This means that the player will be "tied" to the save until the season is over if the rewards at the end of the season are transferable or for "life" if not!!!

A bit of advise... stick to "normal" Ventures if you want or like their rewards...

[madaei]

Looks like they followed your request.

No reward for Operation 3 whatsoever. really?
Or is it just me? Am i blind?

madaei

[KalisaFox]

didnt seem to get any rewards as well, are we suppose to for activity at each operation level? only joined this last operation

[DopeEx]

I got nothing as well, very disappointing.

[Hammerhirsch]

yeah no rewards in op 3, this all turns out to be a huge waste of time for me xD

[KalisaFox]

at least participating has been a huge reward for me as i started this last operation with a new game, so been able to capture allot of great ships, farm allot of exceptional mods, and train a ton of level 5 pilots, service crew and marines, but was still surprised there was nothing at the end of operation, figured there would be skins at least.

[Mr. Personal]

Alright. I expect to get a lot of new friends with this topic. Obviously in a purely non sarcastic way whatsoever. But please bear with me and here me out for a minute.

Dear devs, I do intend to ask you according to the topic to cancel each and every planned final reward, assuming there'd even be one. The reasoning is actually pretty simple. As stated in various other threads, the common opinion of the MTS beta appears to be rather negative overall. Apparently lots of players are stuck with inactive teams and lost their optimism to successfully conclude the Season. Legit, granted... Remarks about just leaving the game open to send ventures every once in a while or even to automate the process increase. I get the impression the focus shifted to progressing through the Operations as a kind of chore instead of something fun to do while playing the actual game and this conclusion means the whole project already failed, in my personal opinion.

Still, it's a beta. It's purpose should be to test things out and have people willingly participate to support the development. Again, that's only my opinion, including everything following up so I'll refrain from stressing this out once more.

By completely removing final rewards and of course communicating this decision, you could release those people feeling pressured to compete further for the imaginary-worth-it-whatever. I'm pretty sure there'll still be couple of players left despite less than optimal team compositions who'd still proceed just out of curiosity or because they're currently having fun nontheless.

(Another possibility could be to just state "everyone who participated will receive reward X either way, thanks for joining!" or something like that. But I can hardly mention that now since it would totally undermine the topics impact.)

To my fellow players, before starting to flame and blame me now, please let me get a little headstart to find somewhere safe to hide. Let's say about three weeks? Or maybe only two? Pretty please?

You would lose nothing if everyone would get their reward if there were even one.

[RedFlashyKitten]

As stated in various other threads, the common opinion of the MTS beta appears to be rather negative overall.

I mean I would ask you for a source on that claim, but we both know you neither considered the inherent bias of forums nor did you consider your own bias. Its okay if you dont like it, but stop claiming that "everyone shares my opinion". Its intellectually dishonest.