X3TC - Fun with Equipment Docks and Trade Stations

[Morkonan]

Yes, about these.. things - Equipment Docks and Trade Stations.

I'm trying to use them. It's not that I don't understand them, I'm just trying to use their limited abilities, at face value, in my game. It's sort of a Roleplaying thing. I would like to incorporate Equipment Docks and Trade Stations in my Fleet Logistics and my Trade economy.

I can do the latter fairly easily, using a system of Trade Stations to move items through the galaxy to where they are most desirable. So, that's fine. I can also store infinityx1 fighters in Taledi or Argon Trade Stations and that's sort of useful, I suppose.

However, Equipment docks... I need some help, here. I can easily set them up to buy desired equipment and then funnel it into a TL, if I wish and then reverse the process when I am outfitting ships.

But, what else can I do with them? How can I maximize their utility. Admittedly, they're not really that useful aside from storing fighters or having a docking spot for TL and capital class ships. But, what am I missing? What can I do with them? What would be "fun" to set up?

What have you done with Equipment Docks and/or Trade Stations that was innovative, useful, interesting or fun?

Help me figure out what to do with them without modding them. (I'll mod them later, if I have to, in order to get some practical use out of a game asset.)

[Coreblimey]

I do nothing with them that you haven't already mentioned. I find that they are what they are. Just storage or landing depots.
I did have some fun (in a stomach churning 'fun' way) with my fighters docked at a trading station. I had approx. 200 Spytfires docked. When a large group of pirates entered the sector I thought I would send them all out to attack them. Using the 'all docked m3/4/5 command' to send them out, about 1/2 only made a few metres. Expecting the station to send them out in small groups so that they could get clear safely before the next group came out, imagine my horror when all 200 came flying out together!
Although I wasn't in sector at the time, I'm sure I could here them splatting into the station and each other!

Needless to say I never used that method for launching my fighters again!

[Catra]

I do nothing with them that you haven't already mentioned. I find that they are what they are. Just storage or landing depots.
I did have some fun (in a stomach churning 'fun' way) with my fighters docked at a trading station. I had approx. 200 Spytfires docked. When a large group of pirates entered the sector I thought I would send them all out to attack them. Using the 'all docked m3/4/5 command' to send them out, about 1/2 only made a few metres. Expecting the station to send them out in small groups so that they could get clear safely before the next group came out, imagine my horror when all 200 came flying out together!
Although I wasn't in sector at the time, I'm sure I could here them splatting into the station and each other!

Needless to say I never used that method for launching my fighters again!

fighters get launched fewly and slowly when you are in sector.


now, as for EQdocks:

keeping tabs(by way of using the "owned ships" menu) on my capital and corvette forces in a given area, kinda like a command centre. this also keeps my property screen tidy as i can hide all the ships that are tied to a EQdock.

also use them as a sort of heavy firebase. when a ships homebase comes under attack they will launch and kill the target and patrol around their homebase for a while. have 2 set up in grand exchange(incase the xenon decide to head east, which they usually don't), 1 in zyarths dominion 1 in merchant haven 2 in menelaus paradide (they're right in front of the south gate, instead of inbetween) haven't seen a single xenon or pirate in the surrounding area since.


i do the same thing with A/T trade stations:

since they can keep an unlimited fighter swarm docked, they can lockdown a sector fairly easily. throw in a few corvettes for tanking and the base can pretty much hold the sector indefinitely. if you use ammo / missiles then make sure to leave a dock slot open for supplies.

[TTD]

All of the above.
Even used EDQs as trade stations for residual income.

Strategically placed , they can attract NPCs to supply missiles and suchlike.
I do this with the Hub too.

They are always useful if they have max e-cells with a small freighter to resupply.Ideal for those emergency resupplies for Capital ships.

Also , some scripts let you research EQ or even claim the sector the EQ is in.

[Eisenkalle]

Never bought an EQ.
I dock my capitals at several Shipyards.
But only four at a time, so there is some space left for NPCs and myself.

The tradingstation is not that bad at all.
At least the Argon and Teladi tradingstations with their fighter bay(s).
You can set the tradingstations up to expand your markets.
Add several experienced CAGs and some CLS2 (for the supply) and you can bridge sector gaps for certain goods.
Food/minerals/etc. are good to sell via this method.
Another idea is to get your hands on weapons and missiles.
I do not like producing weapons/missiles by myself.
If you stay with your RPG, this is the way you should use the tradingstations.
On a sidenote, I clone weapons/missiles now, because it is faster.

[Coreblimey]

In AP Boron EQs can hold unlimited fighters (at least I think they can as they have internal fighter docks). This makes the trading station redundant and saves you a few million credits.

[Coreblimey]

I dock my capitals at several Shipyards.
But only four at a time, so there is some space left for NPCs and myself.

This method can sometimes be very frustrating. I used to use this method myself but often found that the spare capital landing spot was occupied by those useless Arenas & Casino TLs. I swear one of these days I'm going to board one of these blighters (only to find that it will pop up again much too soon).

[Triaxx2]

If you're using a fighter swarm, ALWAYS use Teladi Stations. ALWAYS. Argon stations launch out the same channel other fighters enter, and will turn and smash straight into the walls. Teladi exit out the rear of the station and have no walls.

[Eisenkalle]

I dock my capitals at several Shipyards.
But only four at a time, so there is some space left for NPCs and myself.

This method can sometimes be very frustrating. I used to use this method myself but often found that the spare capital landing spot was occupied by those useless Arenas & Casino TLs. I swear one of these days I'm going to board one of these blighters (only to find that it will pop up again much too soon).

Haha.

Yeah these are quite annoying.
Also the smaller ships docking at the regular docking ports and you are sitting in an M6 and don't get clearance.

[Morkonan]

Hmm...

So, it appears that Equipment docks just don't get much love in X3TC. Trading stations (Tel/Arg) have the advantage of unlimited fighter bays, so that surely helps with defensive needs. (Plus, it's a good place to store all those unique fighters and cast-offs that you tend to collect before you standardize your fleet.)

OK, so, concentrating on Equipment Docks, since they're under-loved -

In order to try to figure out a unique use for them, I need to know more about their properties.

Equipment Dock Properties (Check me on these)

1) Two Capital/TL docking clamps capable of docking 2 M7, M2, M1 or TL class ships.

2) Fifteen Fighter/Corvette docking clamps capable of docking M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, TS or TP class ships.

*3) Warehouse Space - Not sure, here. What's the total floorspace available for an equipment dock? (ie: Storage space)

4) Inventory - The EQ dock can carry any tradable item, though stock limits are hardcoded.

5) NPCs will not trade with Player-owned Equipment Docks.

6) *You can not set your Buy/Sell price conventionally. But, since NPCs don't trade with EQ docks, that's not an issue. Though, it might be one if UTs and Local Traders can trade with your own EQ dock... That bit is important, because it could end up causing a hefty loss of profit.

7) Interesting tidbit I ran across - EQ Docks will automatically recharge a ship's shields to Full when that ship docks. (Might come in handy when in a war zone.)

************** Transmission Interrupted *******************

We interrupt this post for a very important message about Equipment Docks!

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ZOMGZ! I just discovered something new! (Maybe )

I wanted to see if Equipment Docks can store Stations. THEY CAN! At least, according to the dockware manager! And, more than that, they can buy and sell... SHIPS! Oooooh.. this makes the EQ dock useful.. if it actually works the way the Dockware Manager appears to say it does.

First, you issue a Command to the EQ Dock, load the Dockware Manager and Add wares, except you choose to "Take over all wares from another Station." You can NOT choose a Shipyard if you just "Add" wares normally from another station.

Once you do that, your EQ dock appears to now be able to sell not only ST class factories/stations, but Ships as well! Unfortunately, you can not order it to buy/sell different grades of fighers (S/M/L.) But, you can order it to carry the hull class of any ship a Shipyard produces.

How to use this?

Well, my first thought was trying to make a decent use of the EQ dock and I wanted to see if it could be used for a place to store those "accidental" purchases of stations. You know, you buy a Taledi SPP instead of a Boron SPP for a Station Build mission and now have no place to put it? Well, "Just transfer it to the EQ dock", was my thought. And, it appears, according to the station's capabilities as is listed after mucking around with the Dockware Manager software, you CAN transfer that ST class ware to a player owned EQ dock! Before this discovery, the only solutions were to either place the station as you own, hold onto it for future deployment in a Station Build mission or buy another TL, transfer all your old TL's equipment to it then sell the old TL with the ST in its hold to a Shipyard. Now, you have another option - You can buy a 50 million credit EQ dock, add the Station type to its ware list using Command-Dockware Manager-Add Wares- Take over all wares from another station-Click a shipyard that sells the exact ST class ware you're looking to store - Remove all the other wares, factories and ships other than the mispurchased factory class-transfer the factory to the EQ dock by docking your TL.

I have not yet had time to check this out fully and see how it works. However, why is this useful? Glad you asked!

OK, let's say I want to create a fighter fleet. I tell my EQ dock to stock "Nova Raider", assign a CAG who is flying a Panther (!) to buy those Nova Raiders and deliver them to the Dock whenever supply reaches xx limit! I also assign other CAGs to buy weapons, shields, etc, for the dock and have a CLS pilot parked in a TL docked to the EQ Dock who is gulping down inventory for long-term storage.

So, I set my limits at 15 Nova Raiders (The docking limit for the Equipment Dock) and keep checking the dock until they show up. Then, I load a CLS script that orders the TL that was previously storing all the Nova Raider weapons and missiles my CAGs were buying to reverse the process and keep the EQ dock full of those items while I upgrade the Fighters I just bought. Then, I move the fighters to their new home or store them in a Taledi/Argon Trade dock, reverse the CLS's script so it's again gulping down the items the CAGs have bought and my Panther-CAG will go off to buy another 15 Nova Raiders!

Woot!

I'll be experimenting with this, but I would really like some confirmation. I haven't actually tried to store a ST class ware on my EQ dock, yet, because I wanted to jump to the forums and let you guys in on my "discovery." Does it actually do this? Is this a "bug" or did I discover something new about the game or rediscover something that had been forgotten?

If all the above actually works, this transforms the EQ dock from being a virtually useless purchase to something that could be quite useful and entertaining. If I manage to automate the process of buying and outfitting a fighter wing using Dockware Manager/CAG/CLS and maybe even Supply command software, I'll be sure to post detailed instructions on going about setting this up in vanilla!

[Eisenkalle]

The problem is the missing software (like nav mk1 etc.) and tunings.
You can not add the software/tunings to yourEQ.
The only way is with scripts.
Therefore have a look in the scipts&modding section (if you do not mind going "modified").

Btw. there is only a handfull of ships worth massproducing.
Namely M6, M7 and the bigger ships.
You can buy a stack of fighters beforehand.
Fit them out with the necessary equipment you would like to have on your new ships and send them to your Player HQ.
Now you can exchange the equipment between the interim fighter and the new ship.
You still need to send the ship to an EQ for the tunings.

[Coreblimey]

In the unpatched version of TC Atreus Headquarters used to have 2 shipyards in stock. If Atreus HQ is classed as an EQ then the maximum number of each station it holds is 2.
As for storage space on an EQ I'm uncertain but I think it tells you after you've bought it, what it is.

[Morkonan]

The problem is the missing software (like nav mk1 etc.) and tunings.
You can not add the software/tunings to yourEQ.
The only way is with scripts.
Therefore have a look in the scipts&modding section (if you do not mind going "modified").

I know that. I thought it was generally understood that only tradeable wares can be added, as I indicated above.

..You still need to send the ship to an EQ for the tunings.

/agreed

That's not an issue, really. The object of the thread is to find something interesting or new to do with Equipment Docks/Trade Stations. Now I know EQ docks can list both Stations and Ships in their inventories, so there has to be some interesting things we can do with that knowledge. Before knowing that, EQ docks were only good for a very limited number of things, most of which could already be accomplished in easier, less expensive ways.

If my CAG will auto-purchase and deliver fighters to an EQ dock that is fully stocked with everything the fighters can use and if I can work out a method to use the dock and something like Supply command software to auto-fit all the fighters while having CAGs and CLS pilots continuously replacing expended inventory, then the EQ dock becomes much more attractive. (Shouldn't be difficult to set this up, granted some features of the software handle the EQ dock exactly as they do other objects and ships.)

Basically, all I'd have to do to keep a constant inventory of Fighters or any other ship is check back at my equipment dock for docked fighters, enter a few commands and have all the fighters equipped appropriately with hardware and then send them to get tuned up. As soon as they leave the dock the process works to replace them and a new crop of fighters will be ready for outfitting whenever I need them.

While this can be done, to some extent, using already known methods, I don't know of any method available other than using this particular one involving the EQ Dock that will enable any ship to automatically buy other ships. That has always been reserved only for player-input commands.

The theory-craft is sound, given what I personally know about the EQ docks, which is very little. All that remains is the testing and to see if a CAG with a Panther or Elephant will automatically purchase the desired fighter hulls from a shipyard in lots of 15 or so. If they can, I'm in business and an entirely new method of automating fleet construction will be made available! (If they can only do it one at a time, then this will still work, albeit much more slowly. But, at least its a new mechanic to play around with.)

[Coreblimey]

Shipyards only hold a maximum of 10 of each fighter type so obviously your TL can only buy a max of 10 from a fully stocked shipyard. Although if you look at the stock list it always seems they can hold more than 10, I have yet to see one holding more than 10.

[Gazz]

You shouldn't take the list of docked ships too seriously.

Some ships or stations spawn with more fighters docked than could physically dock at at them. That eventually fixes itself once they undock for the first time.

[Morkonan]

Shipyards only hold a maximum of 10 of each fighter type so obviously your TL can only buy a max of 10 from a fully stocked shipyard. Although if you look at the stock list it always seems they can hold more than 10, I have yet to see one holding more than 10.

True.

However, there are three "types" of most fighters - s/m/l. That's 30 ships. The key question is how a CAG would handle that, since there is no such classification available for ships listed in a player EQ Dock using the method I described above.

In essence, I am wondering if the CAG will simply not be able to find any such ship for sale as it is listed in the player's EQ dock by the dockware manager... For ships that do not have different kitted out quality grades, I don't imagine it would be a problem. However, there's only one ship that is capable of docking TS and above hull types in vanilla play and, should I obtain one, I have no intention of putting it in the hands of a CAG!

I haven't had a chance to do any testing, yet. But, it will be interesting to see how the CAG handles that discrepancy. Will it be able to buy? If so, will it be able to buy 30 if all grades of the fighter hull are available?

For myself, I don't care whether the ships are outfitted or not. Sure, it'd be nice, but that would possibly complicate certain automation features I'd like to work into the logistics chain.

[Morkonan]

You shouldn't take the list of docked ships too seriously.

Some ships or stations spawn with more fighters docked than could physically dock at at them. That eventually fixes itself once they undock for the first time.

I have bought in lots of greater than 10 several times. Not at once, of course, but back-to-back orders of 10 ea. of the same hull and upgraded equipment packages.

[Nanook]

Shipyards only hold a maximum of 10 of each fighter type so obviously your TL can only buy a max of 10 from a fully stocked shipyard. Although if you look at the stock list it always seems they can hold more than 10, I have yet to see one holding more than 10.

Not quite. Shipyards actually 'carry' an infinite number of ships of whatever they sell. It's just that you can only buy 10 small ships or 1 big ship at a time. There are no limits on how many you can buy, though.

[brucewarren]

If you're doing the role play thing you could stock saleable goods at the
trading stations and guns/shields etc at the ED.

I'm not so sure that NPCs wont sell to them if the price is right and the goods
are available.

It's been a while but I have a vague memory of pursuading NPCs to keep an
ED stocked up with 25MJ shields next to the HQ that was turning out fighters
at the time. This may need confirming.

[Coreblimey]

Not quite. Shipyards actually 'carry' an infinite number of ships of whatever they sell. It's just that you can only buy 10 small ships or 1 big ship at a time. There are no limits on how many you can buy, though.

I can see where you are coming from. However, although you can buy every type of ship they stock, when it comes to m3/4/5 ships, the shipyard often runs out of the 'M' & 'L' versions. But I'll take this as they have run out of shields & weapons, also I don't think the OP is going to be too bothered about this though.