The X3 Online / Multiplayer FAQ

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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akari no ryu
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Post by akari no ryu » Mon, 28. Jan 13, 14:18

How would the developers view a fan-made browser online game, akin to the old stargatewars or any of the vast mileu of browser based games using ticks?

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Post by CBJ » Mon, 28. Jan 13, 14:43

There was exactly such a project: a browser game called X-Online Assault which was worked on by a group of fans for quite some time. Sadly there has been no news about it for the last couple of years, and the site is now down, so I have to assume that the project is dead.

akari no ryu
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Post by akari no ryu » Tue, 29. Jan 13, 17:10

The reason I ask is, I have re-purposed the Universe Map XML to be semantically accessible. This was so that I could create an XML database to create a HTML 5 map (here).

I haven't optimised the database yet (no indices), but it's a pure XML database (this one), so the xml in the AJAX responses are what's in the database or a subset thereof. I don't, for example, load the station data for displaying the galaxy map. Again, I need to implement indices, but I was just building myself a system to allow myself check where's a good place to put a new complex.

It would be possible to turn this XML into a basis for an MMO, but I haven't given it much serious consideration because doing so and hosting it at all could be viewed as a breach of copyright. In fact, I'm on sort of shaky ground with the map at all. I should probably have a disclaimer or ten to say "I'm not trying to steal egosoft's work".

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Post by TTD » Tue, 29. Jan 13, 22:28

to create a HTML 5 map...
As an interactive map,this one looks interesting.
There is of course Scorp's map, and at least one other interactive map available.(thinking Roguey here).
There may be others.

I have tried online gaming with other players...not the x one mentioned above.
Not sure they are for me.

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Post by CBJ » Wed, 30. Jan 13, 00:18

akari no ryu wrote:It would be possible to turn this XML into a basis for an MMO, but I haven't given it much serious consideration because doing so and hosting it at all could be viewed as a breach of copyright. In fact, I'm on sort of shaky ground with the map at all. I should probably have a disclaimer or ten to say "I'm not trying to steal egosoft's work".
If you want to discuss what you can and can't do with someone then you'll need to email Bernd directly. He's usually quite supportive of not-for-profit projects provided they are done with permission. The X-OA project team, for example, were provided with their own forum on this site to help them organise and publicise what they were working on.

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Post by akari no ryu » Wed, 30. Jan 13, 17:43

TTD wrote:As an interactive map,this one looks interesting.
It's, obviously, a work in progress.
As soon as I have the time to go back to it and finish it, I'll figure out what needs to be added and add it.
Wares searching, factory type searching, that kind of thing.
All very easy to implement, thanks to the structure of the XML I use and the wonders of XQuery.
TTD wrote:There is of course Scorp's map, and at least one other interactive map available.(thinking Roguey here).
Roguey's map is great. And Roguey was tremendously helpful in pointing out where I could find things. But it's based in flash. And I made this for my iphone (haven't configured it to work with the iPhone yet, but the technological approach is sound) which doesn't support flash.
TTD wrote:I have tried online gaming with other players...not the x one mentioned above.
Not sure they are for me.
Nor me.
But I like tinkering with things.
I might enjoy coding part of one.

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Post by sporadisk » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:05

Hey, created an account to reply to this thread.
I hesitated before registering, because I've sensed a degree of hostility to the very idea of multiplayer on this forum.

Anyways, this is my stance:
I have way too many cooperative games to choose from (and friends to play them with) to spend anything beyond a few hours on a singleplayer game. I do long for the complexity and immersion of the X3-games, but it definitely isn't worth sacrificing the social interaction element of multiplayer.

I bought two X3-games in a row on the hope that it would fuel Egosoft's coffers enough that they would enable multiplayer (having read their post complaining about lack of funds). It appears my contribution has been wasted.
I have about 2-3h of total gameplay in singleplayer, and honestly don't think I'll be playing any more than that, nor will I buy X3 rebirth if no multiplayer is implemented.

Please devs, keep in mind that the audience on this forum mainly consists of existing players, who are more or less content with the singleplayer experience. Any polls will be skewed by this fact.

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Post by TBV » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 16:10

sporadisk wrote:but it definitely isn't worth sacrificing the social interaction element of multiplayer
You are aware I hope, that the old-fashioned methods of socialising still
work pretty well? And what's this forum, chopped liver?
I have about 2-3h of total gameplay in singleplayer, and honestly don't think I'll be playing any more than that
Considering most X-fans put in hundreds to thousands of hours before
looking at some mods and doing it all over at least once. I can understand
resistance to comments that seem the equivalent of reading the first 2 pages
of a novel and then suggesting it would be a better book if you changed a few
things, like say the plot.

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Post by sporadisk » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 16:44

TBV wrote:You are aware I hope, that the old-fashioned methods of socialising still work pretty well? And what's this forum, chopped liver?
TBV wrote:Comments that seem the equivalent of reading the first 2 pages
of a novel and then suggesting it would be a better book if you changed a few things, like say the plot.
..And an immediate demonstration of hostility to prove my point, well done indeed.

Let me clarify my stance a bit:
I don't know if this applies to everyone, but my game time is a scarce and precious resource. I've also got friends who live far away from where I live and work, playing games in multiplayer with them essentially combines two interests (socializing and gaming) in a very effective way.

Add to this the fact that working in tandem with these friends have accounted for 100% of the very best experiences in my long history of gaming, and the choice between multiplayer games and singleplayer games (however awesome they may be) becomes pretty easy.

Had the social and time factors not been present, I would probably not hesitate to pour hundreds of hours into the game (which apparently is a requirement to be allowed to have an opinion on multiplayer), but this is not the case.

I noticed the earlier mention of any argument regarding multiplayer being invalid unless backed by "market research", so I will not make any direct assumptions or guesstimates regarding how many gamers are in my exact situation, but at least there's me - and every other forum member who has asked about this topic.

Take into account the fact that the premise of registering and posting on this forum is daunting due to the level of hostility, and you might be given a hint of how many additional voices go unheard.

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Post by Hemmingfish » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 17:00

He doesn't agree with you so he's hostile? Wow, and I thought the flamebait couldn't get any more obvious.

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 17:04

I don't think people are hostile to the idea of multi-player, it's just that those who have been around a long time know that 'what about multi-player' has its very own frequently asked question (FAQ) thread because the FRA (frequently repeated answer) is very tiresome. No one really like hearing, saying, reading, or typing NO over and over and over.
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Post by sporadisk » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 18:34

Timsup2nothin wrote:I don't think people are hostile to the idea of multi-player, it's just that those who have been around a long time know that 'what about multi-player' has its very own frequently asked question (FAQ) thread because the FRA (frequently repeated answer) is very tiresome. No one really like hearing, saying, reading, or typing NO over and over and over.
True, and I'm not demanding or expecting a reply.

Still, from what I've read, one of the main arguments against multiplayer is lack of demand/funds. As a result, being very interested in seeing a multiplayer X3, I find it logical to speak up and tell of my specific case, why I've invested in X3 and why MP is a necessity for me, in order to demonstrate that there is indeed interest. The Star Citizen kickstarter success should frankly be evidence enough, IMO.

If Egosoft had stated that they're definitely not interested in implementing MP at all, for reasons entirely unrelated to demand, this post (and probably this whole thread) would likely be non-existant.

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Post by TBV » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 18:53

sporadisk wrote:If Egosoft had stated that they're definitely not interested in implementing MP at all, for reasons entirely unrelated to demand, this post (and probably this whole thread) would likely be non-existant.
They didn't actually say this. In fact I get the impression, from what I've
read here and there, that they would like to make one at some point.

After all, what developer wouldn't like pay-to-play? But I'm not talking about
what Ego want.

As far as the fans are concerned, resources consumed by an MMO cannot be
spent on the single player game that we currently enjoy so much.
That is why I, and probably many others, will disagree with you.

Plus, I find it really hard to believe that MMO's lend themselves to those with
limited time better than SP games.

Please do not try and make our nice game into some sort of Skype application. Thanks.

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Post by sporadisk » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 19:06

TBV wrote: As far as the fans are concerned, resources consumed by an MMO cannot be
spent on the single player game that we currently enjoy so much.
That is why I, and probably many others, will disagree with you.

Plus, I find it really hard to believe that MMO's lend themselves to those with
limited time better than SP games.

Please do not try and make our nice game into some sort of Skype application. Thanks.
Heh, you seem to be misunderstanding me (angrily).

If I wanted an MMO, I would be playing EVE. In essence, what I want is the same experience that the singleplayer game offers, but I want to share that experience with 1-4 (or more) friends.
Essentially, cooperative multiplayer on a dedicated server.

My experience is that the necessity of coordinating game sessions with small groups tends to limit your total amount of avaliable gametime, but increases the overall enjoyability many times over, so it works out nicely for me.

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Post by Nanook » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 19:28

sporadisk wrote:
TBV wrote: As far as the fans are concerned, resources consumed by an MMO cannot be
spent on the single player game that we currently enjoy so much.
That is why I, and probably many others, will disagree with you.

Plus, I find it really hard to believe that MMO's lend themselves to those with
limited time better than SP games.

Please do not try and make our nice game into some sort of Skype application. Thanks.
Heh, you seem to be misunderstanding me (angrily).
No one seems to be getting angry except you. This is a forum, and it's for a single player game. You have to expect a lot of disagreement to your position. If you can't take others disagreeing with you, then perhaps you shouldn't have broached the subject at all.
If I wanted an MMO, I would be playing EVE. In essence, what I want is the same experience that the singleplayer game offers, but I want to share that experience with 1-4 (or more) friends.
Essentially, cooperative multiplayer on a dedicated server....
And Egosoft has made it pretty clear on many occasions that if they were to make a multiplayer version, it would be an MMO. The additional resources spent to add multiplayer as you envision adds little if nothing to Egosoft's bottom line, so it's just not worth the effort.

{Disclaimer: I am not an Egosoft employee, just a volunteer and a gamer who enjoys the single player X games. :) }
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Post by sporadisk » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 19:58

Nanook wrote: The additional resources spent to add multiplayer as you envision adds little if nothing to Egosoft's bottom line, so it's just not worth the effort.
Hey, if you say so. I could probably play an MMO version, as long as I can run isolated instances with friends, PVP is an optional side-element and they don't dumb down the gameplay, but meh, it would still be an MMO, and the immersion that makes space sims awesome would inevitably be broken.

My vote is on co-op. Either that, or an MMO where you never see any of the other players unless you've specifically invited them.

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Post by TTD » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 23:27

It would seem , sporadisk , that you might like the SMP concept.
There is nothing stopping you from setting up another.
Indeed, I would love to play again.

In case you are unaware, a group of guys thought up a way to play TC with more than one active player.

The last incarnation saw about 6 of us, each with our own corporations and accounts.

Feel free to do a search or PM me for further details.

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Post by CommonParadox » Fri, 1. Nov 13, 03:38

In one of the FAQ-Style answer sessions, CBJ stated:
Q. But what about all the people who would play the game if it were multi-player? Surely the extra sales would solve the problem?
A. I'm afraid a handful of your friends don't constitute market research. The reality is that the market for space trading/combat games is finite, and it's considerably smaller than that for FPSs or RPGs. How big is that market? I don't know; I'm not a marketeer, but it shouldn't be too hard to Google for the relative active gamer base sizes for representative games in each genre. The same figures can also be used to further confirm what was said before about LAN-based games and the potential additional income they'd generate. Numerous polls on this forum have also shown that many existing fans would be put off by a multi-player element. You can argue all you like about how great you think multi-player would be, but these people disagree, which in turn cuts down the numbers.
I can't help but think the devs here are underestimating the market for such a game. Especially considering that Star Citizen just raised over 25 million dollars through crowd-funding, with no bank backing, to do essentially what people are asking for here (and more!). I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that the profit wouldn't be there in such an endeavor, and that it would be all that hard to even crowd-fund the X universe's own multiplayer capabilities. I'd contribute, certainly.

.02

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Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 1. Nov 13, 08:06

I think you missed the point of what CBJ was saying, which is that Egosoft have done the market research and that we have not--therefore they have a better idea of the realities here than we do.

It might well be the case that Star Citizen shows there's a big market for the multiplayer space genre. It might also be the case that Star Citizen basically takes up all the players who want to play such a thing, leaving no room for anyone else to get a toehold--see WoW for how that's worked in the fantasy MMORPG genre for the past few years!

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Post by CommonParadox » Fri, 1. Nov 13, 14:22

From a player standpoint, and in my case in particular, it's not an "or" situation. I intend to play both games; extensively, no less. I think the genre itself is not quite as mutually exclusive as something like MMO's are. The X universe is really captivating, and in my opinion was an oasis in a desert of sandbox space games for years upon years, a well crafted one to boot. Now, however, I think adapting to the reality that multiplayer is something that people pointedly look for in their games. It is one of the first questions I ask of a game in this category and caliber, honestly.

To see that Rebirth won't have it is a mild disappointment, but not a deal breaker and it saddens me to see that potential go unfufilled in such a promising game based on data that has been relegated as "questionable" in its reliability at best as proven by the myriad of other space sandbox games cropping up by the droves due to crowd-funding and the fervor of genre fans. Seriously, they're everywhere right now. It's a huge resurgence. Ride the wave!

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