[X3] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots

[Kor'ah]

If you don't need an army of the little buggers the training factory/complex does just fine. I trained them like that for the longest time.

The key advantage of the racetrack method is that it can train more at once faster than any complex can. The credits you loseing out on omiting the training factory/complex is more than made up for haveing those high profit complexes running sooner with fully trained pilots.

[Carlo the Curious]

I actually do something similar to MadKelt - I have an LT/SQUASH complex in the same sector as my power complex (so jump drive capability doesn't really matter).

When I lose a CAG or CLS I swap the LT complex CLS1 over to replace it and buy a new one to work out of the power complex.

Since my game is at the stage where I don't often need new CAGs/CLSs, it works quite well. If I had to do it all again though I'd probably set up a training route as suggested.

[MadKelt]

I see your point -

I guess with me I tend to build in between blowing stuff up/shooting things - so my little training buddies are usually qualified by the time I get round to finding them real work - and it's a question of preference (I trashed my empire and started again when the modified "bug" hit me through the bonus pack glitch - oh the pain!!) - I was going to make some comment about realism in the game but that's just laughable! I fly the Hyperion!
Anyhoo wasn't meant as criticism merely an alternative.

[jlehtone]

Training a CAG in factory needs a bit of the 'Think'. If you start a new ship on a new empty factory, there is good chance that it advances one level before the resource stocks are full. Tech factories are better than Food, which are better than Bio/Mine, since they need more resources. SPP might be one of the worst.

Once the factory is already running steadily, a single Apprentice does not have enough work to train up quickly. You need another ship, that does only the selling. That keeps the resource stocks empty and trainee busy. But now the Tech fabs may no longer be ideal, as they may have limited market for their product. At least the weapon types do. Anything that sells as secondary sounds like a good school.

But there is another way. A bit more expensive to set up, but pays itself: traditional self-sufficient loop. Standalone SPP, Mine, Crystal array, and Bio-Food production line. An Apprentice CLS Mk1 can haul ECells from SPP to all three consumers. More trainees haul Silicon, Food, and Crystals. Or you can train CAG directly. Same as training on one factory, but with guarantee of market to exist. What you do with surplus energy is your profitsss.

A non-Apprentice CLS Mk2 on training route demands wage. That is worse than running around without making profitss, isn't it? But Apprentice remains a "free slave" if he cannot attend courses. And anyone with over ten flying hours can pass the Freight Pilot driving exam without any prior study sessions. A compromise perhaps even more cringy than either of the honest alternatives?

[karl_1_marx]

Same problem with self-supporting complexes. So, yes, I'll still use it.

[MadKelt]

Once the factory is already running steadily, a single Apprentice does not have enough work to train up quickly. You need another ship, that does only the selling. That keeps the resource stocks empty and trainee busy. But now the Tech fabs may no longer be ideal, as they may have limited market for their product. At least the weapon types do. Anything that sells as secondary sounds like a good school.

That's what makes the Rimes Factory L so cool - it has both ecells and wheat as resources - and a product that is in high demand in both Argon and Boron home sectors (as anyone who has built a Hyperion and had to scrape the resources together can tell you.)

Even when the apprentices can't sell they are continually buying product because the station is always empty of Cloth Rimes (price set to -1 of average and other races set to buy).

Cloth Rimes are a secondary in NPC stations and available in Trading Stations and having wheat as it's secondary resource is also a bonus (wheat is used to make Spacefuel and Cloth Rimes **edit** - so is going to survive God more readily than say an over production of Argon Beef (if beef ain't making Cahoonas it's got nowhere's else ta go!)).

The station has trained most of my pilots (roughly 30 - not many I know but as I said I spend a lot of time doing other things and most of the time the station has two CAG's fully trained waiting for me to build a complex)

The other method's are more succesful (I especially like the idea for X2 style loop - I'm going to set one up tonight just for old times sake) and allow you to train pilots quicker - I posted this as an easy way to train pilots with very good results. This is my set and forget trainng ground all i do is equip the ships set commercial agent on and find some xenon to kill.

**edit** removed incorrect information about wheat being a secondary resource used in NPC stations - it isn't

**edit** -wheat is a secondary resource - no it isn't - yes it is - it is!! - MadKelt continues internal debate online!

[jlehtone]

**edit** removed incorrect information about wheat being a secondary resource used in NPC stations - it isn't

Think again. Think Boron. They love wheat, but make nothing from it. Wheat is a secondary resource to them. And Wheat is a primary resource to all three NPC Argon Food factories: Rimes, Distillery, and Bakery.

The NPC Cahoona Bakery is a special case showing the game mechanics. If it has ECells and either Beef or Wheat it can run one cycle. Confuses a lot of players. It has probably been added there to offer an easy "builder" start: buy a Farm as it is cheap and sells to many.


I have two "X2 loop" training grounds: Three Worlds and Dark Waters. (You know how void the TW is, don't you? "Learn to fly, Mr. Autopilot Agent." ) But the CLS Mk2 circle training is a bit less micro-management, so I prefer it now. However, the single Rimes seems very reasonable option at the start of the game.

[MadKelt]

Think again. Think Boron. They love wheat, but make nothing from it. Wheat is a secondary resource to them.

Thanks jlehtone - editing my earlier edit! - I thought I had seen it is a secondary resource on my travels - then checked a excel sheet with that info and couldn't find it! Shoulda trusted my memory!

[karl_1_marx]

Your Excel sheet probably comes from a complex calculator. Then it's meant for _player_ factories. Those don't need secondaries. _AI_ factories do, and I've yet to find a spreadsheet listing those demands. Read: If you have one, please drop a link...


Cheers

KarMa

[MadKelt]

Your Excel sheet probably comes from a complex calculator. Then it's meant for _player_ factories. Those don't need secondaries. _AI_ factories do, and I've yet to find a spreadsheet listing those demands. Read: If you have one, please drop a link...


Cheers

KarMa

Hi KarMa this is from the resource sticky

[X3] Supply and demand trade chart by strataholic (excel) (22/12/2007)
http://ianwatts.com/Trade_Chart_X3.xls

**edit** and to be fair to strataholic - Delexian Wheat is mentioned there as a secondary resource - teach me to do this stuff at work! **edit**

[jlehtone]

Karl, how about that Seizewell.de table? (Couple suspicious looking entries in it, but ...)

[karl_1_marx]

MadKelt, thanks for the link!

Karl, how about that Seizewell.de table? (Couple suspicious looking entries in it, but ...)

That's so far quite OK. Can't say I'd have checked all the resources. But those where I did it was right. You both know what it's like when dealing in secondaries: You dont want to fill all the niches... ...for some of the more weird stuff: E.g. Special Weapons Manufacturing or Rocket Production complexes, there are some divergences, but this anyway depends on which (species') complex it is.

So for the plethora of mass factories it's reasonably accurate. For weapon factories a bit less. And as the volume market lies in the former, the slight in the latter can be IMHO ignored.


Cheers

KarMa

[blackfirefox]

What exactly in NEWB terms is a CAG CLS pilot? I mean I have a ST just started out, what is the difference?

[Kor'ah]

CAG = Commercial Agent. He wheels'n'deals for a factory/complex getting the best deals. Not uncommon for these guys to milk max possible profit from a factory.

CLS = Commodity Logistics Software MK1. This pilot is usefull for shifting large ammounts of resources around your factories. Like getting e-cells from your huge SSP complex to your other complexes scattered all over the galaxy. The Mk2 software allows you to throw NPC factories into the mix as well, but it's alot more complex.


All three scripts use the same rank table. So train a pilot useing one and he can use the other two.

[karl_1_marx]

While a CAG pilot can be great keeping one of your factories up and rolling, the CLS can be programmed to get an NPC factory to continually run at full speed, e.g. a HEPT factory or PSG factory if you need specific weapons. Helpful for all solutions where you either don't want or can't afford to build your own production line, but still need the weapons.


Cheers

KarMa

[firefly28]

Thanks for explaining the logic , I am definatly going to try and make a mod for the combat side of the game adding combat missions if thats possible. Still Ive got a hell of alot to see and play of the game if you consider I have never tried the XTM mod or any of rogueys mods.

I understand how to setup cags now but I still aint no pro at managing fleets I will learn I guess hehe but great topic!

[beholdtherazgriz]

Dumb question, but what scripts if any do you need to have CAGs and CLSs?

I ask because I'm a bit frustrated manually running wares between my four complexes and HQ. Also will these guys jump, my complexes are a bit spread out. Finally, It seems you can transfer pilots, does that mean I can transfer some of my UT pilots to get things rolling quickly?

Thanks.

[Carlo the Curious]

They're part of the X3 bonus pack.

STs/UTs use a different levelling system to CAG/CLS.

[Vantobia]

Wondering if anyone can help me out. Trained up a pilot in a Disco S like Kor' ah explained. Swapped the pilot over to an TS. That TS is working fine now and is Freight Pilot still. But when i try and get the Disco (with new pilot) going again (by doing what Kor'ah explained, 1,0,0 clean up and 6, 0, 0 second procedure set up and then restarting command for trade-start external logistics etc etc.) It just stays on Commodity logistics on standbye. . .. any ideas ?

[Kor'ah]

Do a "0,0,0" report on that disco. Willing to bet the route was never saved the company server the first time around.