OOS Combat Resolution (Was: OOS Missile firing test.)

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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Mon, 18. Jun 07, 12:52

halo112358 made that script to stage (and log) OOS fights. I would rather plot the change of shield and hull values (of target ship) as function of time (and used attacker).

As I hinted in OP, I've seen my 7 GJ Condor shields down and with hull damage, still struggling against couple Xenon fighters. The Condor had (and still has) 20 Perseus Sentinels in its bay. Manual lauch of them OOS did save the Carrier that time.

Who shoots first and who is the first target seem to really matter. Patrol script is supposed to target the largest threat first. Supposed.
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LionOfHeart
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Post by LionOfHeart » Mon, 18. Jun 07, 13:00

has 1 m3 terran, speed 770Ms he has 120 buluga missils. vs 3 M3 pirats ships

dead

again only 80% missils attack.

win

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Carlo the Curious
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Post by Carlo the Curious » Mon, 18. Jun 07, 13:13

I had an Orca patrolling outside X101. 5 LXs docked (and homed) on board.

It ran into a P patrol and they never launched. Still won, but I doubt the docked fighters made any difference as I've seen that Orca kill P patrols alone before, /shrug.

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Mon, 18. Jun 07, 21:58

I don't know about missiles but the blast radius and splash damage of mines is calculated correctly OOS.
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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Tue, 19. Jun 07, 08:43

Patrol script is supposed to target the largest threat first. Supposed.
this does not correspond to my observations

on capital vs. capital i already did some tests :

for to have a 10 success in 10 tries with no loss experiment it takes
4 pythons to a J (no escorts) - adding just 4 prissy M to the J will result in an almost certain loss of 1-2 pythons

pythons were on sector patrol command that is

once i watched 3 python oos - a j jumped in and there was a lone N (!) on the map. my destroyers decided to rip up the scout first - which was an unlucky choice. in the time it took the J to take out all three, my capitals didn't score a single hit on the scout
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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Tue, 19. Jun 07, 09:07

As I said: "supposed". There is a piece of code that does sort targets by "size". Well, it could be a block that never gets evaluated. :roll:


@Gazz: SQUASH have area effect OOS? Probably one of those hardcoded exceptions.

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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Tue, 19. Jun 07, 10:54

well maybe it *is* evaluated but evaluation picks up wrong ship, because capital is not yet "near enough" - as a rule, a fighter will tend to be nearer

once target acquired - no further evaluation
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Post by MrBigTime » Tue, 19. Jun 07, 20:52

All of this gave me a thought. Has anyone tried adding a "missile boat" to a patrol? You could load up a Caiman with missiles, set fire probability to 100% and set it to protect the patrol leader. Might this be a cheap way to beef up the offensive power of the patrol?

I was looking at the chart and dumbfire missiles have a higher damage per credit than the other types. Since the tracking doesn't matter OOS those would be the missiles to use.

I currently don't have anything stronger than an M3, but I think I'll try this when I do.

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Post by ceogreen » Tue, 19. Jun 07, 21:28

A good idea in theory however I'm not sure how many of the hard hitting missiles a caiman can fire (is this even checked out of sector?) so you might be better off with one of the larger cargo bay M3's or M6's.

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Post by MrBigTime » Tue, 19. Jun 07, 21:59

The Caiman can mount Mosquito, Wasp, or Dragonfly missiles. The Dragonfly looks to be a good choice for my application. It has a high damage to cost ratio and falls mid-range as far as damage dealt. I was thinking a freighter for cost reasons (half million about for upgraded Caiman, versus 3 to 6 million or more for M3 / M6)

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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Wed, 20. Jun 07, 09:28

What is with fighters, which docked on an OOS-M1? Thereby is the combat capability increased of the OOS-M1?
looks bad

first test (7 times):
player-colossus, 41 eclipse (8HEPT) docked
vs.
colossus set to xenon

me : 0
them: 7

result: found out that player-m1 was two bPik short, added them. obviously 2 bPIk weigh more than 41 fighters amounbing to roughly 280mill bills

second test (7 times)
now-full-player-colossus
vs.
opponent from test 1

me : 2
them : 5

looks like docked ships make no difference - in fact it rather seems, that player fleet might have some inbuild handicap as well

third test (once)
M1 + 41 undocked M3+ (set to defend M1) vs. ...

result: Player-M1 and 4 M3 lost - looks like they dont begin defending until too late

fourth test (once)
like third, except all set to kill-all

result player-M1 and 5 M3 lost - from the enemy shield drop it looks like the enemy-M1 is swarmed by fighters and player m1 does not score a single hit until destroyed - maybe there is a max. number of ships attacking the same target taken into account[/quote]

EDIT: adding a couple of hornets and setting probability to 100% didn't make a difference
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Post by jlehtone » Wed, 20. Jun 07, 11:28

Identical weapons, identical tunings, ie identical Colossus?

Docked ships apparently don't count, and docked ships don't launch automatically OOS.

Theoretically, damage resolution can be either simultaneous or sequential. If it is sequential (as I guess it is), it can be random, weighted random, or arbitrary. NPC seems to have better initiative. One should test NPC vs NPC to rule that out.

When people say that Xenon J beats a wing of player M2's, human mind might think that the speed of ship influences initiative. Or the race. Or it is simply random. When one hit can kill, shooting first does count.

People have also seen 600 Fighter Drones to kill a KM2 OOS. But others have claimed that fights are one-on-one and thus a swarm cannot make "simultaneous" attacks. These are contradictory statements, unless the hardcode treats Drones differently.

I guess a hit with all that Colossus has is at least as effective than a hit with Hornet, so if missile replaces the gun attack ...

Systematic test would track/plot shield and hull of both ships, repeat the run multiple (say 100) times, and repeat all that when either opponent is changed. The change would affect only one feature in each step: ship speed, ship agility, bullet damage, rate of fire, weapon tracking speed, bullet speed, bullet range, shield generator, etc. All results to logfile, and then fed to statistics program. So two modded ships, each with their own weapon, all starting identical, and modded step by step.
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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Wed, 20. Jun 07, 13:19

@jlehtone

player-M1 was like 12gPiK 8bPIk, all tuning

xenon-m1 was like - add-default-items-to-ship, as a rule this is not as fast and maneuvrable as all tuned

OOS behaviour clearly looks like pen-and-paper-RPG to me

NPC vs. NPC was my next thought too

iteration of said test is definitely necessary for more than a cursory glance
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Post by Bunny » Wed, 20. Jun 07, 13:27

The ship type also seems to be a factor OOS. Shots fired from a M5 with an AIRE are more effective than from a TS (both ships had a comparable speed for this rock shooting test). There is probably a weighting factor involved in there.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Wed, 20. Jun 07, 13:47

wyvern11 wrote:player-M1 was like 12gPiK 8bPIk, all tuning
xenon-m1 was like - add-default-items-to-ship, as a rule this is not as fast and maneuvrable as all tuned
So the Xenon Colossus was possibly undergunned and undertuned. But code might look at base speed rather than tuned true speed (autopilot is blamed to do so). Maybe the "default variety" weapon selection is "better" than all-PIK (PPC in english)?

Ship class is an "easy" variable to look up. So making a ship with class of "M5" and all specs copied from "TS" leads to ... so many possiblities to test out and rule out. :roll:
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