TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

General discussion about X³: Farnham's Legacy.

Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Moderators for the X3:FL Forums

fireanddream
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun, 13. Dec 15, 07:15
xr

TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by fireanddream » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 03:50

100 hours into FL, here's what I would do in every game:

1) FL specific: using the cargobay hacker to steal & sell weapons
2) FL specific: using the gate hub as a trading hub on day 1, to buy & sell common food, minerals and E-cells
3) FL specific: capturing an arrow to fly personally through all the gates, and leave the details to satellite network for later
4) FL specific: using diplomacy to steamroll faction rep. While it is a shame that in a single playthrough I either have to blacklist the Paranid & Split or the Argon & Boron, once you set out to befriend the other two combo the rep goes up super quickly because of the existence of agents and the rep aftershock.
5) FL specific: stealing RRF M7Ms' marines by stealing its offensive missiles first; you don't need an answer to hammer torpedoes any more.

I'm honestly astonished that basically everything I do has changed going from AP to FL. Can't wait for another playthrough.




Original post:

For me the cargobay hacking tool is definitely a game changer. Right after the main plot I just flew up to Zeus and said **** it... instant 3 PPC. With the power of reload on my side I stole a couple more, definitely more progress than the old ways.

Spent hours grinding mission in Argon/Boron space and then realized I got a billion agents just sitting there doing nothing :/

With the hub being available so early I thought I could do some trading. In AP I used to have a bunch of CLS buyers purchasing cheap minerals & e-cells, and another group of CAG sellers selling them across the universe. No idea how to replicate that via the new station manager command.

I'm really concerned about FL's economy. Barely 8 hours in and I seem to have flown across a lot of dead/barren sectors, and on day one from 18:53 to 19:35 I already got a whooping 6 entries of stations getting removed by GOD. In AP I used to dock an M5 in every major end product station and it was a real chore but kept the universe much more alive. No idea if FL's economy is worse or better.

Shutting down a station's production is not a thing any more? Really tired of my plot bofu factory flashing 24/7 at my face.
Last edited by fireanddream on Mon, 10. Jan 22, 23:23, edited 1 time in total.

fireanddream
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun, 13. Dec 15, 07:15
xr

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by fireanddream » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 03:55

In AP I like to have a pair of complexes with no actual production, one being a buyer hub with a bunch CAG buyers, and the other being a seller hub, and set up a few shuttle ships to move wares from the former to the latter. That way I work WITH the economy instead of breaking it, and make my profit from shuffling the goods around in the universe. Definitely one of my favorite things to do. Is this setup still possible in FL?

DanKara
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri, 21. Dec 18, 13:19
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by DanKara » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 05:26

Getting all the different blueprints for ships, stations and stuff (again) is my "early game" activitiy. Because of that I'm enemy to 2/3 of the universe in changing composition so no station/complex-based trading in npc-sectors for me yet... (I still have no clue about new/changed mechanics in FL.)

The freight hacking is nice for fitting out your "first" (player) ship of each class. It needs to be done "in person" though and can be time consuming. Eventually I stopped that and buy shields/weapons remotly again (what I don't produce in my secure home-sector).

You can't stop the production of a single station (only complexed ones). But in FL you can switch of (economic) warnings in Advanced Options \ Command Console. That stops the yellow flashing - but not Attack-notifications. And you know, you can re-pack and move/store a station...

... and where you see a "broken economy" I see trade opportunities for myself (and my MORTs). It is mostly food and minerals - as it was in every game before. But in FL I do see a lot more fighting between enemy factions. Often to the disadvantage of smaller Traders in their standard-TS's.

I like your approach to trading... (Buy-Plex / Sell-Plex). I think it is still possible - if you stay friendly with all factions (maybe even without with the hole blacklisting...). I would assume without CAG/CLS you have to use the Station Manager and setting wares as "ressource" in the Buy-Plex and to "product" in the Sell-Plex and that "ware delivery" for transporting between your Plexes.

Jimmy C
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue, 17. Jul 12, 02:50
x3tc

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Jimmy C » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 09:10

fireanddream wrote:
Thu, 30. Dec 21, 03:55
In AP I like to have a pair of complexes with no actual production, one being a buyer hub with a bunch CAG buyers, and the other being a seller hub, and set up a few shuttle ships to move wares from the former to the latter.
Entire complexes for that purpose seems a bit much. I just used a Boron Equipment Dock and the Xenon Hub for that purpose.

DanKara
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri, 21. Dec 18, 13:19
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by DanKara » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 09:37

Jimmy C wrote:
Thu, 30. Dec 21, 09:10
fireanddream wrote:
Thu, 30. Dec 21, 03:55
In AP I like to have a pair of complexes with no actual production, one being a buyer hub with a bunch CAG buyers, and the other being a seller hub, and set up a few shuttle ships to move wares from the former to the latter.
Entire complexes for that purpose seems a bit much. I just used a Boron Equipment Dock and the Xenon Hub for that purpose.
Isn't the stoarage capacaty (per ware) quite limited for most ressources (don't mean weapons & shields)

Jimmy C
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue, 17. Jul 12, 02:50
x3tc

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Jimmy C » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 14:42

DanKara wrote:
Thu, 30. Dec 21, 09:37

Isn't the stoarage capacaty (per ware) quite limited for most ressources (don't mean weapons & shields)
In my case, it was quite enough. If anything my traders couldn't move the wares fast enough and the goods shuttles between the two stations served as extra storage space.

Hwitvlf
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue, 13. Apr 21, 21:36

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Hwitvlf » Sat, 1. Jan 22, 02:48

Basically, having access to the HQ earlier, and faster reverse engineering makes it more fun to collect blueprints early. Exploration points make me focus more on flying around instead of using automated exploration. The ability to steal factory BPs and weapons with the Cargo Bay Hacker means I spend far less time sucking up to a specific faction in order to buy stuff so I generally take missions from whichever faction is offering them and focus on building my own trade complex to sell directly to traders from other factions.

In AP, there was a huge grind to get the HQ and I generally had to 'play nice' with most factions until I got established. I think FL lends itself more to playing as a rogue.

Besides that, in FL getting a TL is a big early priority (to move the HQ), and also getting the Marine Training Barack since it takes so long to level up.
In AP, marines and TLs were more late game.
Last edited by Hwitvlf on Sat, 1. Jan 22, 05:30, edited 2 times in total.

Sovereign01
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed, 25. May 05, 14:38
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 1. Jan 22, 04:47

In AP getting a TL early on was incredibly useful because it meant that you could carry out station build missions that make a decent amount of credits. In FL, the dynamic reputation system torpedoes that because you can no longer take for granted that you have the notoriety to buy the station you want, and completing missions causes your notoriety to shift further. The situation with station defence missions is the same since the effects of both the friendly and enemy factions are far bigger than in AP.

So two of the ways that I made money in the early game in AP are far riskier in FL. The first TL is still very useful but in a different way and if you pick the Elephant as I did, its combination of speed, armament and hangar space make it an ideal personal ship since you can lug around your tiny starting ship and others you pick up along the way. I would often use a fast ship like an arrow to explore sectors and find gates and when I'd reach a dead end have the TL come pick me up. I also used it to find taxi missions that gave agents, call in the Hermes that I found, beam over to it and send the M5 back to the TL. When the mission was done I'd call in the TL to pick me up again and while in range I'd beam over all the ecells to resupply the large ship when in a sector with an SPP, then I'd send the TP to load up and wait until needed again. And it's still a capable station building mission ship owing to its speed meaning it can reach the shipyard faster, even if the profits aren't what they once were.

In TC I made the mistake of shooting the Yaki on sight, in AP I made nice with them instead and ended up building several massive weapons complexes in their space which would have put out of business the smugglers who had supplied them previously! :twisted: . In FL thanks to the much-maligned notoriety system they hate me even though I've barely interacted with them, which is going to make obtaining their special ships almost impossible.

The corporations have a much greater impact than they used to because in addition to offering special ships they also offer unique items that cannot be obtained otherwise, their notoriety is influenced by but still separate from the race they belong to.

The Nividium stock market trick from AP is gone- there is still money to be made from Nividium mining however you have to jump through several NMMC hoops before you can actually do it. Instead, there's the trick involving jump beacons which is detailed elsewhere! :D

Jimmy C
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue, 17. Jul 12, 02:50
x3tc

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Jimmy C » Sat, 1. Jan 22, 07:00

Even if the Yaki hate your guts, obtaining their special ships is not impossible. The Susanova Prototype and Advanced Fujin can be found flying around. You'll get the opportunity to capture them eventually.
The Advanced Chokaro can only be found in their sectors and the Kariudo doesn't show up unless they lose a few M7s. Rather than thinking of this as a problem, think of it as an opportunity to raid their sectors for ships to RE or sell. That's how my raid on the Yaki sectors got several M7s, M6s, TMs and fighters. And the plan was just to cap M7s until the Kariudo showed up.

Sovereign01
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed, 25. May 05, 14:38
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 1. Jan 22, 19:12

Jimmy C wrote:
Sat, 1. Jan 22, 07:00
Even if the Yaki hate your guts, obtaining their special ships is not impossible. The Susanova Prototype and Advanced Fujin can be found flying around. You'll get the opportunity to capture them eventually.
The Advanced Chokaro can only be found in their sectors and the Kariudo doesn't show up unless they lose a few M7s. Rather than thinking of this as a problem, think of it as an opportunity to raid their sectors for ships to RE or sell. That's how my raid on the Yaki sectors got several M7s, M6s, TMs and fighters. And the plan was just to cap M7s until the Kariudo showed up.
So I noticed when I found the Adv. Chokaro flying around Weaver's Tempest, I had to eliminate all the other angry fighters flying around with my Maru. In the process of clearing them with flamethrowers, the prototype actually bailed on me along with a Raijin, so I'm already halfway there with their special ships.

v_make
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon, 10. Sep 18, 07:12
xr

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by v_make » Sun, 2. Jan 22, 02:11

Exploits or you can call it game-changing features, played the most important role in my X3 plays. Despite some are well-known exploits, spoilers ahead.
Spoiler
Show
1. INVULNERABLE SHIPS
In TC pre 2.6 the biggest trophies were invulnerable ships like #deca, TLS, Pirate Blastclaw Prototype, etc. and a lot of my operations were centered around these special ships. I did not play much after they remove these 'features' after 2.7, since AP was out and without invulnerable ships, AP was more attractive with new features, and new exploits.

2. MARINES
In TC marines don't die with per deck save load, so 21 was enough for the entire game.
In AP RRF M7M provides infinite well-trained marines.

3. CREDITS
In AP stock exchange provides infinite credits, and there was no need to plan and build any complex for credits.
4. DIPLOMACY
In both TC and AP I fixed diplomacy ASAP with every possible race. And I do not need to care which race I was taking mission from when the payment is really good. With a good relationship with everyone neither do I have to worry about which race of ship I was boarding. Just fix the relationship later with a couple of missions.

All above are gone in FL, so the difference came naturally - I have to play in a more honest style now, or do I? 8)
Regards.
Mark

fireanddream
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun, 13. Dec 15, 07:15
xr

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by fireanddream » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 02:26

v_make wrote:
Sun, 2. Jan 22, 02:11

All above are gone in FL, so the difference came naturally - I have to play in a more honest style now, or do I? 8)
I found the new cargo bay shielding surprisingly tough to deal with. Last night I found an RRF tiger with a jump beacon but also cargo bay shielding, so my max marines will take at least two casualties during boarding and that really bummed me out. On the other hand engineering is pointless now that we got M7D with repair drones.

Sovereign01
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed, 25. May 05, 14:38
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 03:14

fireanddream wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 02:26
v_make wrote:
Sun, 2. Jan 22, 02:11

All above are gone in FL, so the difference came naturally - I have to play in a more honest style now, or do I? 8)
I found the new cargo bay shielding surprisingly tough to deal with. Last night I found an RRF tiger with a jump beacon but also cargo bay shielding, so my max marines will take at least two casualties during boarding and that really bummed me out. On the other hand engineering is pointless now that we got M7D with repair drones.
You'll still need it for the Aran if nothing else, that thing starts off with hardly any hull.

fireanddream
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun, 13. Dec 15, 07:15
xr

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by fireanddream » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 13:32

Sovereign01 wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 03:14
You'll still need it for the Aran if nothing else, that thing starts off with hardly any hull.
Hmm, I wonder if asking my ariadne with full repair drones to "attack my enemy" will fix the aran...

BrigandPhantos77
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed, 27. Dec 17, 05:47
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Wed, 5. Jan 22, 07:23

Sovereign01 wrote:
Sat, 1. Jan 22, 04:47
The Nividium stock market trick from AP is gone- there is still money to be made from Nividium mining however you have to jump through several NMMC hoops before you can actually do it. Instead, there's the trick involving jump beacons which is detailed elsewhere! :D
Speaking of the stock market, that thing a beech now. Watch what you do with corporations shares. You can still make money, but if it's dropping there is chance to lose all your shares/investment if the company goes belly up. The the manipulation is gone for more than just the Nividium. I had a ship move some weapons between exchange areas, and the prices never changed either. Guess insider trading is gone in general. The IRE somehow did adjust for me. Just not anything like PPCs.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

Cycrow
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Posts: 22197
Joined: Sun, 14. Nov 04, 23:26
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Cycrow » Wed, 5. Jan 22, 12:23

You can still manipulate the stock exchange, you just can't do it instantly.

The price of the wares is now the average price over time rather than the current.

So bring in lots of wares to the area will effect the price eventually

Hwitvlf
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue, 13. Apr 21, 21:36

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Hwitvlf » Wed, 5. Jan 22, 18:29

Cycrow wrote:
Wed, 5. Jan 22, 12:23
The price of the wares is now the average price over time rather than the current.
Good middle-ground between instant cheat and chaotically random. So maybe build a factory in a sector to flood the market with a ware and drive down the stock, then later move the station to bring prices up.
...or the pirate version: buy cheap stock for a ware that is produced in the sector, then take a "Station Defense" mission for the factory that produces the ware and let the hostiles blow it up. :P

fireanddream
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun, 13. Dec 15, 07:15
xr

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by fireanddream » Mon, 10. Jan 22, 23:27

100 hours in, looking back we actually have access to some unholy powerful tools to skip through a lot of the grind. A shame that mapping the universe is pretty much as much a chore as it was in AP, however (I wish we can use explorer guild points to unlock info about sectors)

BrigandPhantos77
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed, 27. Dec 17, 05:47
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Tue, 11. Jan 22, 05:33

fireanddream wrote:
Mon, 10. Jan 22, 23:27
100 hours in, looking back we actually have access to some unholy powerful tools to skip through a lot of the grind. A shame that mapping the universe is pretty much as much a chore as it was in AP, however (I wish we can use explorer guild points to unlock info about sectors)
When you purchase sector maps, that should include all current data for those listed. Including any new stations.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

Sovereign01
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed, 25. May 05, 14:38
x4

Re: TC/AP veterans, how is your early game different in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Wed, 12. Jan 22, 22:21

BrigandPhantos77 wrote:
Tue, 11. Jan 22, 05:33
fireanddream wrote:
Mon, 10. Jan 22, 23:27
100 hours in, looking back we actually have access to some unholy powerful tools to skip through a lot of the grind. A shame that mapping the universe is pretty much as much a chore as it was in AP, however (I wish we can use explorer guild points to unlock info about sectors)
When you purchase sector maps, that should include all current data for those listed. Including any new stations.
I keep seeing those for sale even after I've explored said sectors, all they do is tell you the locations of the sectors and not what's in them.

Post Reply

Return to “X³: Farnham's Legacy”