Befriending pirates and red ships

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rudi_pioneer
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Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by rudi_pioneer » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 06:04

When I become friends with previously unfriendly faction, some ships and stations turn blue and some still stay red, so I use hacking or mission to make stations friendly, and ships I comm and apologize.

However, pirate faction is interesting - even though I'm rank 7 currently (from -3), most ships are red, and don't have apologize option. Stations I can hack, but not sure how to turn pirate ships blue so I can peacefully travel through their sectors. This is even for pirate sectors I haven't' been to yet (I wonder if pirate faction has special logic from AP in addition to being fully fledged faction now). Do I need to wait for pirate ships to be destroyed for blue ones to spawn? I'm mostly worried about capital ships since those seem to be untouchable.

DanKara
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by DanKara » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 08:07

rudi_pioneer wrote:
Mon, 20. Dec 21, 06:04
When I become friends with previously unfriendly faction, some ships and stations turn blue and some still stay red, so I use hacking or mission to make stations friendly, and ships I comm and apologize.
This kind of different behavior I blame (only to myself) on a "global hate" and a "personal hate". The global level of hate is connected to your reputation with a cerctain faction and will automaticaly switch between red/blue.
In addition to that stations and ship may wear a personal grudge against you. Because you were caught smuggling, attacked ships or asked ship to bail.... Also I think every station, that first spawned while you were an enemy, will have this personal grudge (not sure if this intended).

And I think there are always some pirate ships that are hostile to the player (because they may prey on their own kind?).

rudi_pioneer
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by rudi_pioneer » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 18:52

Makes sense, thank you! How would I deal with almost all pirate ships being red and not letting me apologize? Or does one need to start the game as pirate friendly?

Cycrow
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by Cycrow » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 20:08

ships are being replaced all the time. So eventually you will start to see less red ships as long as you keep the rep up.

however, some pirate ships are independent, and will be enemies regardless of your ranking

rudi_pioneer
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by rudi_pioneer » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 20:59

Cycrow wrote:
Mon, 20. Dec 21, 20:08
ships are being replaced all the time. So eventually you will start to see less red ships as long as you keep the rep up.

however, some pirate ships are independent, and will be enemies regardless of your ranking
Thank you! Do you know if number of red pirate ships is proportional to rank? I've started with pirate rank 2 as a test, and stations were blue but all ships were red again.

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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by Cycrow » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 21:11

No your rank doesn't effect the indipendant pirates. They are mainly the raiding parties that are found in other race sectors. Ships in the pirate sectors are usually effected by your rank like other race ships.

but as combat happens, some of these ships will get destroyed, and new ones created would have relations based on your current level

Hwitvlf
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by Hwitvlf » Mon, 20. Dec 21, 21:25

There's a trick for turning ships friendly when your rep is positive: When you're OOS, send one of your ships to the sector with the hostile ship and from the sector map check 'info' for the enemy ship. The engine seems to force a friend/foe recheck when you do this and the ship should turn friendly if you have positive faction relations.

It doesn't work for ships associated with a hostile station, or if the ship has exchanged fire with one of your ships- it will hold a grudge against that ship for awhile.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a Pirate ship's hostility factors in both Pirate ranking and race ranking for whatever race the pirate belongs to. So a Boron pirate is more likely to be hostile if you have low rank with the Boron. I base this on Pirate groups where some ships are friendly and other hostile; when I have checked, the hostile ships are piloted by races that I am hostile with.

rudi_pioneer
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by rudi_pioneer » Tue, 21. Dec 21, 00:11

Hwitvlf wrote:
Mon, 20. Dec 21, 21:25
There's a trick for turning ships friendly when your rep is positive: When you're OOS, send one of your ships to the sector with the hostile ship and from the sector map check 'info' for the enemy ship. The engine seems to force a friend/foe recheck when you do this and the ship should turn friendly if you have positive faction relations.

It doesn't work for ships associated with a hostile station, or if the ship has exchanged fire with one of your ships- it will hold a grudge against that ship for awhile.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a Pirate ship's hostility factors in both Pirate ranking and race ranking for whatever race the pirate belongs to. So a Boron pirate is more likely to be hostile if you have low rank with the Boron. I base this on Pirate groups where some ships are friendly and other hostile; when I have checked, the hostile ships are piloted by races that I am hostile with.
I've definitely only recently started to make stations friendly, so I'll give it some time for ships, and try that OOS trick. Thank you!

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Tue, 21. Dec 21, 00:14

Hwitvlf wrote:
Mon, 20. Dec 21, 21:25
There's a trick for turning ships friendly when your rep is positive: When you're OOS, send one of your ships to the sector with the hostile ship and from the sector map check 'info' for the enemy ship. The engine seems to force a friend/foe recheck when you do this and the ship should turn friendly if you have positive faction relations.

It doesn't work for ships associated with a hostile station, or if the ship has exchanged fire with one of your ships- it will hold a grudge against that ship for awhile.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a Pirate ship's hostility factors in both Pirate ranking and race ranking for whatever race the pirate belongs to. So a Boron pirate is more likely to be hostile if you have low rank with the Boron. I base this on Pirate groups where some ships are friendly and other hostile; when I have checked, the hostile ships are piloted by races that I am hostile with.
That actually kinda makes sense to me. As an example, Yaki pilots are usually tied to another faction other than Yaki. And it's not always there birth faction. Like a Boron being labelled as Split or Paranid. And since Pirate stations for example, do not deny you docking due to being enemies with the Pirates in general, they track there hostility separately, maybe it's something funny or not behaving perfectly with the coding. My college professor once told me coding does exactly what you tell it to, not necessarily what you want it to. lol
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

rudi_pioneer
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by rudi_pioneer » Tue, 21. Dec 21, 00:22

BrigandPhantos77 wrote:
Tue, 21. Dec 21, 00:14
Hwitvlf wrote:
Mon, 20. Dec 21, 21:25
There's a trick for turning ships friendly when your rep is positive: When you're OOS, send one of your ships to the sector with the hostile ship and from the sector map check 'info' for the enemy ship. The engine seems to force a friend/foe recheck when you do this and the ship should turn friendly if you have positive faction relations.

It doesn't work for ships associated with a hostile station, or if the ship has exchanged fire with one of your ships- it will hold a grudge against that ship for awhile.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a Pirate ship's hostility factors in both Pirate ranking and race ranking for whatever race the pirate belongs to. So a Boron pirate is more likely to be hostile if you have low rank with the Boron. I base this on Pirate groups where some ships are friendly and other hostile; when I have checked, the hostile ships are piloted by races that I am hostile with.
That actually kinda makes sense to me. As an example, Yaki pilots are usually tied to another faction other than Yaki. And it's not always there birth faction. Like a Boron being labelled as Split or Paranid. And since Pirate stations for example, do not deny you docking due to being enemies with the Pirates in general, they track there hostility separately, maybe it's something funny or not behaving perfectly with the coding. My college professor once told me coding does exactly what you tell it to, not necessarily what you want it to. lol
Now I'm super curious too... I wonder if one of user-visible files has pirate logic for this, or it's in game engine. I did a quick search for "pirate" in file names but only see pirate jobs

rudi_pioneer
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by rudi_pioneer » Thu, 30. Dec 21, 19:43

Conclusion: with turning stations to blue and time, vast majority of open sector pirates are blue now.

Few large ships near The Marauder and many in corner sectors (void of opportunity and vestibule of creation) still have 50% red pirates, and I think it’s because there’s nothing to destroy those ships so new ones can spawn.

I think maelstrom area will be similar. It would be bit easier if pirates allowed for apologize comm option. Still need to try OOS ship inspect and turn recommendation from above, but I’ll most likely just block these few corner sectors.

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 08:23

Funny thing to go with this, I took a bigger hit blowing up a Carrack than I did boarding a pirate owned Condor. Got a 45 minute negative aggression timer for the Carrack, and a 4 minute positive blackbeard timer for taking a carrier by force. :lol:
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

DanKara
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by DanKara » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 13:51

BrigandPhantos77 wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 08:23
Funny thing to go with this, I took a bigger hit blowing up a Carrack than I did boarding a pirate owned Condor. Got a 45 minute negative aggression timer for the Carrack, and a 4 minute positive blackbeard timer for taking a carrier by force.
I don’t think this is correct with regards to the accumulated “Influence Bonus” in its entirety.
AFAIK every aggressive act will give you a seperate malus in % that lasts some time. Multiple acts add in -% (capped at -100%?) and in lengthens the timer (capped at 3 hours?). So for boarding the Carrack and the Condor you would have gotten separate Mali. But the different classes (M7 / M1) shoud gave you different numbers in % and time.

On the other hand boarding any ship (even Pirate ones) grants you an actual Influence Bonus with the Pirate faction named “Blackbeard” with +2% per Boarding for some time. Funny, isn’t it?

More Info’s might be found here: https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... B+-+Agents

Hwitvlf
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by Hwitvlf » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 17:43

DanKara wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 13:51
AFAIK every aggressive act will give you a seperate malus in % that lasts some time.
The wiki link you posted says boarding ships increases the "Aggresive" penalty for diplomatic actions, but I haven't noticed that being the case. You still lose lots of recognition though. Funny...impress pirates by stealing one of their own ships.

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 19:10

DanKara wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 13:51
BrigandPhantos77 wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 08:23
Funny thing to go with this, I took a bigger hit blowing up a Carrack than I did boarding a pirate owned Condor. Got a 45 minute negative aggression timer for the Carrack, and a 4 minute positive blackbeard timer for taking a carrier by force.
I don’t think this is correct with regards to the accumulated “Influence Bonus” in its entirety.
AFAIK every aggressive act will give you a seperate malus in % that lasts some time. Multiple acts add in -% (capped at -100%?) and in lengthens the timer (capped at 3 hours?). So for boarding the Carrack and the Condor you would have gotten separate Mali. But the different classes (M7 / M1) shoud gave you different numbers in % and time.

On the other hand boarding any ship (even Pirate ones) grants you an actual Influence Bonus with the Pirate faction named “Blackbeard” with +2% per Boarding for some time. Funny, isn’t it?

More Info’s might be found here: https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... B+-+Agents
Yea maybe, I thought it was funny to see. I was only at 8% (2 red bar) to start, and after both ships 98% (3 red bar) to finish. And the max aggressive timer I believe is actually 24 hours. My Strong Arms got that high and stayed that high for a long time.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

DanKara
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by DanKara » Mon, 3. Jan 22, 20:22

BrigandPhantos77 wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 19:10
Yea maybe, I thought it was funny to see. I was only at 8% (2 red bar) to start, and after both ships 98% (3 red bar) to finish. And the max aggressive timer I believe is actually 24 hours. My Strong Arms got that high and stayed that high for a long time.
I felt myself fairly well entertained, when I read your story about the Condor. Thank you for that!
The positive side on the Dynamic Reputation system is just how much mischief you can do against any faction at rank -3 (2 red) and lower.
I have come to like that pretty much. I even gave up on a playthrough were my Commonwealth-factions stayed static (after leaving Void/HolyVision).

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Befriending pirates and red ships

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Tue, 4. Jan 22, 04:03

DanKara wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 20:22
BrigandPhantos77 wrote:
Mon, 3. Jan 22, 19:10
Yea maybe, I thought it was funny to see. I was only at 8% (2 red bar) to start, and after both ships 98% (3 red bar) to finish. And the max aggressive timer I believe is actually 24 hours. My Strong Arms got that high and stayed that high for a long time.
I felt myself fairly well entertained, when I read your story about the Condor. Thank you for that!
The positive side on the Dynamic Reputation system is just how much mischief you can do against any faction at rank -3 (2 red) and lower.
I have come to like that pretty much. I even gave up on a playthrough were my Commonwealth-factions stayed static (after leaving Void/HolyVision).
Happily, that bugger is mine too. :D RE it shortly after, and ready to begin the construction of it's 1st replacement. That was the most fun I've had in a while taking it. Sadly I made the pirate base and anarchy port mad at me. Might have to just make short work of them with a bomber. And going through my kill list seeing that Carrack in it, somehow it makes me grin and smile heavily. I think about "Kaboom!!" each time. I never understood why the hammer heavy torpedoes were higher in the rep requirements than firestorm torpedoes. They fire like flail barrage missiles, hit like semi's and are harder for anti-missile shots to hit. So now I know. :D

Just gotta remember, turn the turrets off before attempting a boarding with a missile frigate. They have a mind of there own.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

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