X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

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Hwitvlf
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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Hwitvlf » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 19:59

EDIT: Not a bug. Adding some factories changes the planner's displayed production-cycle time .
ORIGINAL POST:
Thanks Jimmy C. This is a different bug than the one I ran into while adding onto an existing factory (it showed insane production deficits) but it's probably related. It seems to be caused by weapon factories as steve_v said, but not just the new factories. Also Quantum Tube, Shields and some other random factories send the production readout soaring.

Too bad. I hope a miracle happens and we see another update.
Last edited by Hwitvlf on Sun, 22. Aug 21, 23:51, edited 1 time in total.

Cycrow
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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Cycrow » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 20:57

Jimmy C wrote:
Sun, 22. Aug 21, 14:30
Hwitvlf wrote:
Sun, 22. Aug 21, 10:28
I don't think a factory shows up if you haven't logged in for sale yet (aka not in the encyclopedia). Try clicking 'info' on the Paranid shipyard in Third redemption and see if it appears.

I would also be interested to know if there are any differences between the in the planner and the online planner once you get the layout entered.
I clicked on info on the yard in Heaven's Assertion, which also has Hurricane factories, and that worked. Thanks.
I put the entire complex into the game's planner and it's gone crazy. While food and bio quantities do balance out, I can see various products are produced at way higher numbers than the online planner, than even those stations by themselves in a new complex. For instance, the full complex with its 13 XXL SPPs is said to produce 54 million ECells. A complex with only those 13 XXL SPPs should produce only 2.4 million ECells. Same for the crystals.

Here's the save. Just open the planner and look at "Main Complex" and compare each of the production with another complex that has only stations of that type.
the values look correct.

a XXL SPP produces 11060 energy cells per cycle, with sun of 150%, the cycle time is 3:35 (215 seconds)
so the production race is (11050 * 13) / 215 = 668.74418 (energy cells per second)
the cycle time in the planner is 22:28:00 (80880 seconds)

so the production would be 668.74418 * 80880 = 54088029.767 (rounded down)

not sure where you got the 2.4 million from?

Jimmy C
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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Jimmy C » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 21:10

Cycrow wrote:
Sun, 22. Aug 21, 20:57

not sure where you got the 2.4 million from?
Use the complex planner to start a new complex in the same sector. Place only 13 XXL SPPs and no other stations. The planner states the output is 2.4 million ECells.
If you are right and 54 million is the correct output, then why is the Planner showing 2.4 million before other stations are added?

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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Cycrow » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 21:20

Jimmy C wrote:
Sun, 22. Aug 21, 21:10
Cycrow wrote:
Sun, 22. Aug 21, 20:57

not sure where you got the 2.4 million from?
Use the complex planner to start a new complex in the same sector. Place only 13 XXL SPPs and no other stations. The planner states the output is 2.4 million ECells.
of course, because its showing it for a cycle time for an hour.
but with all the weapons factories, the cycle time is 22 hours.
this is displayed at the top of the menu which cycle time its currently being used. All the products are based on how much is produced/consumed over this time

the cycle time is the greater of 1 hour or twice the highest factory cycle.
in your complex, you have a split ion shard fac, that has a cycle time of 11:14:00, so the complex cycle time is 22:28:00

the cycle time it displays needs to cover at least 1 complete cycle for factories

Jimmy C
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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Jimmy C » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 21:30

So all the production numbers were showing the output over a varying timescale? Ok.
On the Planner, I saw the ECell output was high enough that I could remove one XXL SPP, along with the stations supporting it, and still have a surplus. This was not what the online calculator showed. Is it because they're rounding the numbers to the hourly production numbers?
This reminds me of the xadrian calculator for TC and AP, I always felt the complexes I created with it had more surplus than the calculator said it should.

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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Cycrow » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 21:41

its possible theres some rounding there, but for SPP and mines, the production is dependant on the factories efficiency. Which is from either sunlight (SPP) or asteroid yields (Mines)
its possible they arn't taking this into account

Hwitvlf
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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Hwitvlf » Sun, 22. Aug 21, 23:22

Thanks for clearing this up Cycrow. I feel a little stupid for not noticing that the cycle time changed, but it makes perfect sense as you would end up with fractional products for stations with long cycles if you stuck with a 1 hour cycle.

This explains why I've never seen a problem with resources while I've been relying on the in-game calculator for my complexes.

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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Jimmy C » Mon, 23. Aug 21, 02:05

Cycrow wrote:
Sun, 22. Aug 21, 21:41
its possible theres some rounding there, but for SPP and mines, the production is dependant on the factories efficiency. Which is from either sunlight (SPP) or asteroid yields (Mines)
its possible they arn't taking this into account
All the third party calculators I've seen take sunlight and asteroid yields into account. They shouldn't be off to the point of an entire station's output.
But rounding down an hour's output for 22.5 hours shouldn't either.

I'll take a chance and reduce the factories according to the internal planner.

Edit: I did some more comparing between the internal planner and the online one. The hourly output for one of the missiles over double production cycle period is correct. But the surplus ECell quantity seems to be off by a factor of 1.141. I had also created a smaller scale plan as the first stage of complex construction, the period for that one is 80 minutes, the surplus in that case is only off by half a cell. So it does look to be a case of rounding being wildly divergent.

Hwitvlf
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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Hwitvlf » Mon, 23. Aug 21, 18:23

Jimmy C wrote:
Mon, 23. Aug 21, 02:05
But the surplus ECell quantity seems to be off by a factor of 1.141.
Could you clarify; do you mean off by 14.1% per cycle from actual production? Just wondering how this affects the in-game planner. The only way I can picture two planners differing significantly is if one was rounding the output for each station in a stack before adding them.

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Re: X3FL (1.2) "New" weapon factories screw up complex planner calculations

Post by Jimmy C » Mon, 23. Aug 21, 19:10

Hwitvlf wrote:
Mon, 23. Aug 21, 18:23

Could you clarify; do you mean off by 14.1% per cycle from actual production? Just wondering how this affects the in-game planner. The only way I can picture two planners differing significantly is if one was rounding the output for each station in a stack before adding them.
Not per actual production, but if I derive a per hour figure from the in-game planner's ECell surplus number and compare to the same figure from the online planner, the in-game planner's figure is higher by 14.1%.
And if I multiply the per hour figure of the online planner to the cycle period of 22 hours and 28 minutes, it is several hundred thousand ECells lower than the in-game planner's figure, by 14.1%.
This seems consistent with my impression of these planners understimating ECell output in AP.

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