Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

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Sovereign01
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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 20:51

Jimmy C wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:57
The Teladi Cormorant's drones are even faster. However, they can't break up the big rocks by themselves. So you need to slap a mining laser, mineral scanner and mining software on the Cormorant itself to get the process started without you.
I thought the only thing you needed to break up the rocks was the mobile drilling system, which according to this the drone miner comes with already. The bigger stumbling block is acquiring the Cormorant, as it's not sold anywhere so is another ship I'm going to have to find and board.

EDIT: Seems it's a special ship so I'll need to send an agent to a Teladi shipyard.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Jimmy C » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 03:23

The problem is, you can't command the drones directly. And the basic "Mine with drones" command doesn't seem to include breaking major rocks for mining. So, you either had to break the big one yourself or put a mining laser and mining command on the Cormorant itself.

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alexdefelice
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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by alexdefelice » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 04:02

I'm using an Ozias with 12x Demeter Miners, and it's been very effective in helping me greedily scoop up every bit of nividium I can find. All OOS of course.
It's like paradise, spread out with a butter knife.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 04:54

The problem is, you can't command the drones directly. And the basic "Mine with drones" command doesn't seem to include breaking major rocks for mining. So, you either had to break the big one yourself or put a mining laser and mining command on the Cormorant itself.
Sounds like something that needs to be patched if the command doesn't tell the drones to use their drills to break the rocks down to collect-able size. If only the Cormorant can do it, doesn't that create a huge bottleneck in the process and slow everything down?
alexdefelice wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 04:02
I'm using an Ozias with 12x Demeter Miners, and it's been very effective in helping me greedily scoop up every bit of nividium I can find. All OOS of course.
I've been using an Ozias with Mistrals in much the same way along with a single Consus, even with one of the smallest TS cargo bays it still takes hours before a Mistral is full.

I did notice in the list of ships that can mount the drill includes the Geochen Miner, a ship I already have access to thanks to my relationship with NMMC, a TP with a top speed of 202 and a cargo bay of 1,200. Since it has a 25% greater top speed, would it collect 25% faster? Being a TP I can base a dozen of them at another Ozias, assuming I can find enough drills for them all.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Jimmy C » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 16:25

Sovereign01 wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 04:54

Sounds like something that needs to be patched if the command doesn't tell the drones to use their drills to break the rocks down to collect-able size. If only the Cormorant can do it, doesn't that create a huge bottleneck in the process and slow everything down?.
Only a bit. I don't remember if I had to command it to break a major rock by itself or just told it to start mining for nividium. OOS, I placed it next to the one nividium asteroid in the sector and the ship broke it when it executed the command. Then I halted the command and told it to mine with drones instead and it proceeded to do so.
The rock produced just enough to fill up the Cormorant. I've put the ship aside for now because I'm on to something that could be far more profitable.

What product in the game has the highest value density, that is, value per unit volume? The answer is the Energy Bolt Chaingun, all of its 151,144 credit value is packed into a 1S cargo space. That means you can pack more EBCs into a ship and sell the whole load for more money than any other item in the game. And with the infinite sink that is the Manual Trade Run, you can sell all the guns you can make as quickly as you can get them to a dock automatically.

Second highest is the Mass Driver for 116k in 1S cargo. Everything else is worth significantly less.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 21:12

Jimmy C wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 16:25
Sovereign01 wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 04:54

Sounds like something that needs to be patched if the command doesn't tell the drones to use their drills to break the rocks down to collect-able size. If only the Cormorant can do it, doesn't that create a huge bottleneck in the process and slow everything down?.
Only a bit. I don't remember if I had to command it to break a major rock by itself or just told it to start mining for nividium. OOS, I placed it next to the one nividium asteroid in the sector and the ship broke it when it executed the command. Then I halted the command and told it to mine with drones instead and it proceeded to do so.
The rock produced just enough to fill up the Cormorant. I've put the ship aside for now because I'm on to something that could be far more profitable.

What product in the game has the highest value density, that is, value per unit volume? The answer is the Energy Bolt Chaingun, all of its 151,144 credit value is packed into a 1S cargo space. That means you can pack more EBCs into a ship and sell the whole load for more money than any other item in the game. And with the infinite sink that is the Manual Trade Run, you can sell all the guns you can make as quickly as you can get them to a dock automatically.

Second highest is the Mass Driver for 116k in 1S cargo. Everything else is worth significantly less.
So 10,000 credits per unit cargo? How fast can they be made though, and how many chainguns would it take to offset the cost of building the complex? Must have been a small rock then, the Cormorant does have the biggest cargo bay of the M7Ds, I would need to build another 8 mining drones in addition to the 4 the ship comes with for a full hangar.

I found that the gathering speed only translates into credits when traders buy the nividium, at the moment my station has almost 10,000 units sitting there, I wonder if I would get better results if I moved the station to some place that isn't in the middle of nowhere. I'd need a few owls, probably a full 10 of them to carry all the materials but I could do it. I won't be able to afford that until the next trader buys more nividium.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Jimmy C » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 05:18

Sovereign01 wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 21:12

So 10,000 credits per unit cargo? How fast can they be made though, and how many chainguns would it take to offset the cost of building the complex?
151,144 credits per unit cargo. The forge itself is only 6 million and builds 3 every two hours. It would pay for itself in 4 hours with 6 guns. An efficient setup would start with 5 forges fed by 1 food-bio pair, then expanded to 5XXL forges with dedicated food-bio pairs. This setup can build 240 guns every two hours. That's 36,274,560 credits.

Here's one example setup. This is for the unclaimed sector next to Unseen Domain. I'm not building here though, but where I have my existing complex.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by mhooma » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 06:58

Stu Austin wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 04:32
mhooma wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 02:32
did some off you guys had a exploration thing in sanctuary of darkness?

if found a aran but forgot the coordinates and did not find it anymore.
Hello. I already posted the co-ordinates as a "spoiler" to you on previous page.

stu
oh thx, i must have missed it

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Iwantyoursmiles » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 08:02

Jimmy C wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 16:25
with the infinite sink that is the Manual Trade Run, you can sell all the guns you can make as quickly as you can get them to a dock automatically.
I didn't realize you could tell your freighters to sell items to docks that don't normally stock that item. I assumed that was a player only convenience. Nice.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Jimmy C » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 08:53

Iwantyoursmiles wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 08:02
I didn't realize you could tell your freighters to sell items to docks that don't normally stock that item. I assumed that was a player only convenience. Nice.
I wouldn't use TS for this application though, too big. You should be aware that the docks will only take a set maximum number of each item, correct? Indefinite Trade Run can continue indefinitely only if you sell under that limit each run. If the ship has more, it halts. A complication to this is the player-controlled docks have a higher limit than the npc docks for every item. So you have to get creative in stuffing the ship doing the trade run so that can't ever carry more than can be sold automatically.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by dmk » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 10:41

Jimmy C wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 05:18
expanded to 5XXL forges with dedicated food-bio pairs. This setup can build 240 guns every two hours. That's 36,274,560 credits.

Here's one example setup. This is for the unclaimed sector next to Unseen Domain. I'm not building here though, but where I have my existing complex.
18 XL expansions applied to food production???
each of them cost 17 mln. (+6 mln for L expansion)
at least in
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Harmony of Perpetuity beta
you don't need to apply those to solar power and mines.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Jimmy C » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 13:46

HSAP sectors are randomly set, so you might not get the sectors you want. If I could game for the sectors I want, I'd go for the one in the Unclaimed Sector next to Unseen Domain and Unseen Domain beta. That puts three claimable sectors in reach of one gate link.

I'm aware the complex is expensive, but this is the most profitable item to sell, yes?

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by dmk » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 20:02

Jimmy C wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 13:46
HSAP sectors are randomly set, so you might not get the sectors you want. If I could game for the sectors I want, I'd go for the one in the Unclaimed Sector next to Unseen Domain and Unseen Domain beta. That puts three claimable sectors in reach of one gate link.

I'm aware the complex is expensive, but this is the most profitable item to sell, yes?
it's most cheap item to transport,
with current system of upgrades most profitable in long run is heaviest weapons i.e. most expensive factories (because only for 1 mln you got twice productivity, next upgrade for 3mln, and so on).

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 20:31

Jimmy C wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 05:18
Sovereign01 wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 21:12

So 10,000 credits per unit cargo? How fast can they be made though, and how many chainguns would it take to offset the cost of building the complex?
151,144 credits per unit cargo. The forge itself is only 6 million and builds 3 every two hours. It would pay for itself in 4 hours with 6 guns. An efficient setup would start with 5 forges fed by 1 food-bio pair, then expanded to 5XXL forges with dedicated food-bio pairs. This setup can build 240 guns every two hours. That's 36,274,560 credits.

Here's one example setup. This is for the unclaimed sector next to Unseen Domain. I'm not building here though, but where I have my existing complex.
I misread the S as a 5 :oops: I forgot that for the EBC it's the ammo that takes up all the space! :lol:

I need to start visiting the NPC chip plants, there's plenty of them that only have a capacity of 20 unsold. Once I finish building that TOA I can move the station without huge quantities of materials to worry about.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Jimmy C » Tue, 28. Sep 21, 20:44

dmk wrote:
Tue, 28. Sep 21, 20:02
it's most cheap item to transport,
with current system of upgrades most profitable in long run is heaviest weapons i.e. most expensive factories (because only for 1 mln you got twice productivity, next upgrade for 3mln, and so on).
The EBC forge is less than half the price of the PSP forge for example. In the time it takes to produce 1 PSP, those 2 EBC forges can produce 12 EBCs that can be sold for about 50% more than one PSP. Those 12 EBCs can be packed into an M5 to be sold at a dock. You'd need a TS at least to sell that PSP quickly.
The Boron PPC forge is actually just a bit less than 2 EBC forges. But even then, 3 EBCs produce more than 2 PPCs.

At XXL scale, the initial cost disparity for the forges is such that, at 5 forges for both guns, I've saved enough with EBCs to buy one more EBC forge and upgrade it to XXL scale for the same cost as 5 PSPs upgraded to XXL scale.

But 6 forges is not an efficient initial layout. To make it efficient, it would have to be 30 EBCs compared to 25 PSPs.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Thu, 30. Sep 21, 00:22

I bought a Cormorant while I had an agent at a Teladi shipyard, once I've equipped it with a mining laser I'm going to send it to Perpetual Sin to join the other ships I already have in the system, there's a lot of nividium rocks still to be collected. Depending on how effective the 4 mining drones it came with are will determine if I have the HQ manufacture the remaining 8. Another batch of the mineral sold giving 150M. Once I finally kick off the TOA construction (I visited every chip plant in my database to get the last few hundred chips) I'll see how much space the remaining materials occupy and from there use the requisite number of Owls. With a capacity of 31,250 it's got almost as much space as the Elephant, the smallest TL.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Mon, 4. Oct 21, 22:55

Ok I gotta share this. So sometimes the game really does throw you a bone. I was entering Duke's Citadel after I saw a PX and P roaming about, had to jump out my Boa quickly to avoid agro. Entered via the North Gate, and started approaching the PX which turned away from me just before it got into weapons range. As I pummeled it with CIG, taking its rear turrets defensive fire, watched its shields drop, then hull, never jumped out like those sometimes do. Boom! Then I decided to approach the P at the
Spoiler
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South TOA - Discovery Sector / Sanctuary of Darkness
.

As I approached it and brought it back into scanner range I noticed a couple containers past it. This is also the point I jumped my Boa out. System has a jump beacon in it. As I opened the Sector Map to look at the fleet composition I noticed one of the containers said Nividium. Then I looked at the quantity. 2000+ Nividium. "HOLY CRAP!!! JackPOT!!"

I happily risked one of my TS to scoop it up, not waiting for the hidden timer to pop it, nor did I get anywhere near it personally for fear of weapons fire destroying it. Easy 32 million credits. And I'm sure those probably came from my HQ at some point. Just a feeling. :D
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Sat, 9. Oct 21, 01:42

A little light at the end of the tunnel. I have noticed a few asteroids respawn that I believe were OOS mined by my fleet of miners.
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The Void Alpha - Both Nividium roids have respawned. I don't recall if I ever used the automate mining command, but one was definitely auto-mined by my HQ based miner. And the silicon roid next to the South TOA gate respawned and it was broken and depleted entirely by that fleet while I was collecting the minerals for my first TOA.
I also wanted to report my opinion on the Nividium mine as well, as opposed to mobile mining.

It does operate at a profit, "a small one", but the setup cost and length of time revealed that basically it isn't worth the time and effort when compared to having a fleet out and about. Cycle times are high, having a decent amount available to sell is tough, and keeping it stocked with e-cells cause it depletes quickly is very annoying.
Spoiler
Show
I mined both Unknown Enemy Sector and Sanctuary of Darkness using this fleet before the enemies took them over. Those did respawn after the Khaak and Xenon showed in them.
The rocks in The Void Epsilon which my auto miner broke up long ago have just begun popping back up. As have a few other rocks in the neighboring The Void Zeta.

That is my official report / feedback for those I promised.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

Sovereign01
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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 9. Oct 21, 05:10

I've managed to move my HQ to the Xenon hub instead of the ass-end of nowhere so it should fill with resources a lot faster and in theory sell Nividium quicker too. I'll find out when the next ship's hold is full, which will almost certainly be my Sirokos. I thought I'd try selling the last 50 Nividium I had at full price to see if there were any takers, if it hasn't sold by the time my Sirokos is full I'll revert the prices.

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Re: Quick guide to infinite riches... and more! - improvements in upcoming update 1.2

Post by Sovereign01 » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 23:14

UPDATE: I managed to clear all the Nividium from Perpetual Sin, last batch had 11,000 units of the stuff. I'm glad I went back to the sector by Xenon 534 as there I found out that I hadn't equipped my Geochens with drills, something that wasn't apparent before because when I sent them to Perpetual Sin the rocks were already broken up by the other ships mining in the sector. So now I have to install some drills. I also had to equip the carrier ships with the mining software so they could contribute to the mining. Now I have to see how I can tell my Cormorant's drones to mine only the Nividium in the sector. For some reason they did it in Perpetual Sun but not in the unclaimed sector. A couple of the other asteroids must have already been broken up as I didn't see the number of asteroids in the sector go down when I set the drones to work. At the moment I only have the 4 the ship came with as I need to save all the chips I can get for TOA production and that Terran mission.

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