[Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

This forum provides information on obtaining access to Public Beta versions of X4: Foundations allowing people running those versions to provide feedback on their experiences.

Moderator: DevNet Public Moderators

Post Reply
icy0
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 7. Nov 23, 10:43

[Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by icy0 » Wed, 29. May 24, 00:42

Info
In 7.00 Beta 7 several fixes were released to address issues with missile launch and targeting. As such we would like to ask you for feedback on how they work in Beta 7.

Image

Feedback Notes:
  • Missiles should not prematurely explode when firing them
  • Guided Missiles targeting stations should aim for the nearest module as opposed to the station center
  • General feedback if it effects effectiveness or gameplay
Known Issues:
  • TBA

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Fri, 31. May 24, 18:12

Noticed 2 bugs/shortcomings

1) If you gave the fighters 10 light guided missiles and 10 heavy ones. no matter what target they attacked, they used the light ones (they used up all 10), and the heavy ones used only 4 out of 40, 1 missile each. . .

2) turrets with unguided missiles do not fire proactively, this is clearly visible when light unguided missiles fire at a destroyer that is located at a distance of 5+ km and moves linearly, the missiles do not hit, although they have a speed of 1100, and shells from M plasma turrets hit (550 speed)

Why are there still no missiles settings?! which ones to use and against whom, how much to fire at a time?!

By the way, the AI ​​can’t use interceptor missiles

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 52371
Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
x4

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by CBJ » Fri, 31. May 24, 18:14

Please provide savegames showing the two situations described (or 3 counting the interceptor missile one, if you think that is relevant).

Please also stick to feedback on the feature under discussion in this thread. As per the forum rules, feature requests do not belong in this forum.

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Fri, 31. May 24, 18:36

I conduct tests in a free game (when you can choose any number of ships for yourself), create a fleet in Argon Prime, find an Argon defensive fleet (a colossus of 2 behemoths + m and s ships) and make a battle.

In fact, there are a lot of shortcomings in the missile usage area, I can only describe them or make a couple of scenarios, but I think any of the developers can handle this. . .

fighters have problems with the use of missiles against fighters (if they do not have 5 stars, but this problem seems to have been solved, everything is already happening noticeably better)
Then I noticed a problem when I gave 2 types of missiles (light guided and heavy) If they released the light ones without any problems, they did not want to use the heavy ones =_= (they were in interception mode at the aircraft carrier)

As a developer, can you write what logic for using missiles does the AI ​​use?

In my experience, it simply doesn’t exist, and the player needs to adapt to this and use only 1 type of missiles on the ship, and only for one purpose, which is stupid, since missiles are the most versatile weapon, and we, as players, cannot use this in the fleet!

this really suggests setting up for an empire

1) type of packets received against targets S \ M \ L+XL+station
2) and the number of missiles used against the target S \ M \ L+XL+station

You can do this by setting up a visit to separators, such as a presset

This problem has remained since the release, and I think most players simply do not want to use missiles, since they need to be manually updated in the fleet, in a word, a lot of micromanagement, and at the same time the complexity of implementation due to the lack of normal restrictions on the use of missiles for AI

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 52371
Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
x4

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by CBJ » Fri, 31. May 24, 19:08

Again, please provide savegames demonstrating what you are describing.

And again, as per the forum rules, this forum is not for players to demand that developers explain their code.

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Thu, 6. Jun 24, 19:07

Here is a save with fighters that have light and heavy missiles.
1) choose an aircraft carrier
2) choose the KUKRI group
3) send to any capital ship
4) observe that they use light rockets. . .
(they ALWAYS use ONLY light missiles first)
5) draw conclusions.

PS here you can also test light swarm missiles, they can only be useful against fast M ships, but since there are no application settings, the missiles are useless, 10 NIMCH, they hardly kill 4 fighters, losing half the group
Attachments
save_005.xml.gz
(31.15 MiB) Downloaded 1 time

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Thu, 6. Jun 24, 19:41

https://youtu.be/M14wvVenYtg?t=337
Here is a video about the behavior of unguided missiles; they do not take into account the movement of the target, as a result they often cannot hit a moving target.

Next, here's the save, gladiuses have heavy class missiles, if they are ordered to attack a linearly moving capital ship, they will miss, even though they accelerate the missiles quickly enough. . .

Also in this save there are 2 KUKRI groups that have a varied set of missiles, look at what missiles they use when ordered to attack different targets. . .

Can one of the developers explain the logic behind choosing the type of missile against a target?

or is it simply missing, and there was no expectation for the AI ​​to use several types of missiles?
Attachments
save_005.xml.gz
(32.01 MiB) Downloaded 1 time

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Thu, 6. Jun 24, 19:49

I can generate many scenarios for the use of missiles, but I have no faith that this will be of any use. since missiles are not as often used by other players as capital ships. And you still haven’t been able to make normal AI for capital ships, starting with the beta test of the game. . . although I think it will be easier to improve the missiles.

Although I would be glad if the topic of using missiles was covered, since at the moment this is a piece of interesting mechanics that cannot be implemented at the moment, although I consider missiles in this game to be the most powerful and variable type of weapons, and using which you need to build logistics / supply ships / transport convoys / logistics stations, etc. . And not just a stupid mass of ships with orders to attack the sector.

S!rAssassin
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat, 7. Aug 10, 10:31

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by S!rAssassin » Tue, 11. Jun 24, 14:26

Still miss "missile launch probability" in ship's control...

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Wed, 12. Jun 24, 12:30

For 2 minutes I watched a barracuda during a battle with fighters. she didn't use a single missile during this time...

It is still not clear how unguided missiles work against moving targets; it feels like the Makos hit the ship due to the fact that they were aiming at modules that were closer to the front and, due to the speed of the missile and the target, they hit closer to the engine.

I kindly ask you to teach fighters and corvettes to do a short afterburner (0.5-1.5s before launching missiles, especially important for cluster missiles
Attachments
save_006.xml.gz
(30.31 MiB) Downloaded 1 time

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Wed, 12. Jun 24, 13:05

The problem appeared with Patch 7-8, last month when I tested missiles on fighters, I was happy because even 0-1 star pilots had no problems with launching

Here the problem is clearly visible, during the entire battle a couple of missiles were fired, and it seems to me that this is due to the fact that the fighter flew far from the camera and the calculation was conducted as a battle outside the sector

and it’s noticeable how unguided missiles miss a linearly moving ship (perhaps it’s worth setting the aiming point for unguided cluster missiles not at the modules, but at the center of the ship, since they already have a good splash, and due to their low speed it’s difficult for them to hit the modules if the ship is maneuvering )

PS estimate the speed of docking of medium ships with an aircraft carrier, it takes forever.
And I also don’t really understand why the aircraft carrier gives the order to attack not the ship that is already ready to take off, but the one in storage (despite the fact that the ships are the same and have the same settings, equipment, etc.)
Attachments
save_006.xml.gz
(30.51 MiB) Downloaded 1 time

_SNy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat, 22. Dec 18, 00:44
x4

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by _SNy » Thu, 13. Jun 24, 19:09

Some small general Feedback to missiles. Since you are currently actively working on them... it would safe a lot of innocent lifes if you could make it possible to seperate the button for long rang scan from the button for firing secondary weapons. Yes it's my input fault whenever a tragedy happens. But you wouldn't have a roket launcherthat is also a speedometer in real life, would you? :mrgreen:

abc0000
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri, 7. Jan 22, 20:54

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by abc0000 » Sat, 15. Jun 24, 07:09

_SNy wrote:
Thu, 13. Jun 24, 19:09
Some small general Feedback to missiles. Since you are currently actively working on them... it would safe a lot of innocent lifes if you could make it possible to seperate the button for long rang scan from the button for firing secondary weapons. Yes it's my input fault whenever a tragedy happens. But you wouldn't have a roket launcherthat is also a speedometer in real life, would you? :mrgreen:
You can do this manually in the settings by changing the button for firing from the secondary weapon (but here I’m not sure whether the launch of the scanning wave is tied to firing from the secondary weapon), or before active scanning, you can change the active group of the secondary weapon so that if you accidentally press it, a missile will not be launched (like putting it on safety), or you can put the missiles in a separate group of main weapons

_SNy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat, 22. Dec 18, 00:44
x4

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by _SNy » Sat, 15. Jun 24, 12:27

abc0000 wrote:
Sat, 15. Jun 24, 07:09
_SNy wrote:
Thu, 13. Jun 24, 19:09
Some small general Feedback to missiles. Since you are currently actively working on them... it would safe a lot of innocent lifes if you could make it possible to seperate the button for long rang scan from the button for firing secondary weapons. Yes it's my input fault whenever a tragedy happens. But you wouldn't have a roket launcherthat is also a speedometer in real life, would you? :mrgreen:
You can do this manually in the settings by changing the button for firing from the secondary weapon (but here I’m not sure whether the launch of the scanning wave is tied to firing from the secondary weapon), or before active scanning, you can change the active group of the secondary weapon so that if you accidentally press it, a missile will not be launched (like putting it on safety), or you can put the missiles in a separate group of main weapons
That is my point. There is only secondary weapon in the control settings that triggers rockets and scan. It is linked. In the end it was one reason I stopped using missiles in the past because it happend from time to time and almost always was connected with reputation loss or a fight that led to loading screen. Havent tried weapon groups though cause I also barely use them. But it seems this would add another layer of input. If I want to scan, I just want to press one button und don't want to go through an entire checklist.

Also it's just a personal thing. For me it would make the game smoother. I can imagine it being intentional to give the scan a good feeling for joystick users or something like that.

Daemonjax
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue, 27. May 14, 01:54
x4

Re: [Feedback] Missile Firing and Targeting

Post by Daemonjax » Sat, 15. Jun 24, 16:14

Still using Smart Missiles for general use and I ignore all the others. Not sure if that's intended.

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations - Public Beta Feedback”