[TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

[adeine]

1.) I'd often like to rotate modules by 45°, especially cross-connection joints. I think 22.5° instead of 30° might be a better fixed snap angle

What is at a 45 degree angle? The Split/Paranid tri-things would be better with 60 and the right angles need 90, so 30 seems good for both.

22.5° x 4 is 90°, but still a good point with the tri-like shapes. 15° might be a compromise. I think we could go that low as long as single steps are clearly distinguisable from each other (i.e. you see it's 30° and not 30° +/- 1 step).

Not having the increments fixed like @adeine suggested might also be a solution but might also be irritating?

I don't think it would be irritating if it gives you quick access to all the useful angles of rotation to properly connect things. It's not like this applies to free rotation; once you get used to whatever steps it offers it just saves time.

[steph_m37]

Hi !

Small video to align another module to a dock.
(This is a new save game (split departure) that I started for the tests of the Beta since its launch.)

attempting to align

Steph

[Imuniser]

I like the fact that, if you hold down the right mouse button, you can basically "fly" your view into any position you want using the keyboard. Nice!

I have noticed that, if you enter the loadout screen, the camera resets back to a default position upon exiting this screen. It would be best if the camera position is remembered. Having it reset to a default position, far away from the station thus having to move back into position can get tiresome.

Regarding the 3-axes modules rotation, I believe it would be helpful if the editor would remember the position and angle of the previous module.

[BigGreenThugs]

I don't know if this is new in beta 5 but wow! Being able to place a module outside of my build boundaries and then rotate it how I want it and then snap it to the station is GREAT! As someone who likes to build in an extremely small footprint as much as possible, This is just what I needed.

[DocAce]

2.) When rotating a module it should rotate along it's junction to an attached module, not around it's center like the teladium gießerei does

This is supposed to happen already, though only for the "predecessor" connection. Any modules that have this one as a predecessor should rotate as a sequence, the same as when you move them. If it doesn't do this then that's a bug.

[DocAce]

Regarding the 3-axes modules rotation, I believe it would be helpful if the editor would remember the position and angle of the previous module.

Do you mean that, after rotating a module, a new module you select from the menu should default to that previous orientation?

[DocAce]

Big thanks to all the testers, some really good feedback here!

[Imuniser]

Do you mean that, after rotating a module, a new module you select from the menu should default to that previous orientation?

Yes, so that it will easily snap to connectors without having to reposition the camera for special axis rotations. Usually one builds more than one module in a row and would speed up the process if you rotate one and then have the subsequent one keeping the same rotation.

Now that I thing of it, I have also noticed that right after you place a module and right click on it directly it will automatically rotate it instead of presenting the right click menu, one having to select (left click) something else first and then right click the newly placed module to prevent the rotation if the right click menu is desired. I would:
- have a cancel rotation option (reset the module to the default plane; default being the initial module position on the 3 axes)
- have an option to only allow right click rotation if combined with a key (e.g. holding down alt, ctrl, etc plus right click); this option should be defined in the game menu just like any other key binding actions we already have

I would also have the zoom in/out possible using the mouse scroll wheel additional to the current Z/X keys.

The above are ideas; improvements are always welcome.

Thanks @DocAce for listening to our ideas. Great work!

[G315t]

Seems the sector view is not loaded correctly here.

[G315t]

And some small feedback for the new camera movement. I like it, I just would change the acceleration speed curve and start a bit faster, and give a faster maximum movement speed.

[DocAce]

Yes, so that it will easily snap to connectors without having to reposition the camera for special axis rotations. Usually one builds more than one module in a row and would speed up the process if you rotate one and then have the subsequent one keeping the same rotation.

If you're placing multiple of the same module you should use the copy function from the right-click menu. That makes a copy with an identical orientation.

[Imuniser]

If you're placing multiple of the same module you should use the copy function from the right-click menu. That makes a copy with an identical orientation.

Indeed, however I was thinking more along the line of module-connector-module process.

[Eyeklops]

So having spent a few hours in the new station editor here is my feedback:

1. I liked the way the legacy (4.10 beta 4 & earlier) camera rotated around a point in front of the camera better than the camera being the rotation point. What the original lacked was the ability for the rotation center to be freely moved up/down. Adding the WASDZX movement to the legacy camera rotation point is what I am asking for.

2. I'd prefer the movement speed of the camera to be linear instead of ramping up. An option to change the movement speed via a menu slider or faster/slower keybinds would be nice.

3. I miss being able to zoom in and out with my mouse-wheel. Maybe I don't have something set correctly because it doesn't work anymore. That said, the legacy camera zoom scrolling wasn't perfect either and sometimes had much larger "steps" that expected. Frequently one step of the mousewheel would zoom past the object I wanted to get a closer look at.

4. The legacy camera had a bug (quirk?) that is not present in the new camera (Yey!). Selecting a module from the right information panel with the legacy camera snapped the rotation point to that module. If an attempt was made to move that module the camera rotation point would quickly snap back to the original origin point. Typically this would end up with the module being dragged well away from where I was working in the editor forcing me to start over. I would think the camera origin point should have remained static in this scenario.

I think I just want the legacy camera with the ability to freely move the rotation center (especially up/down) and a more refined mouse wheel zoom. It could very well be that I am not using the new camera correctly.

[steph_m37]

hi!

I just try again so you must align the view in the axis of rotation of the module to turn? (I'm right!)

If you watch my video, I place the module in front of the dock so to perform my rotation (as indicated in the video), I should have oriented the view to the top

it's just my opinion but why touch the view to perform a rotation, while keeping the view
And by having the possibility to choose the axes (nodes of the module) by choosing them by with two keys of the keyboard
The axis selected in progress would be highlighted and active and here we turn around the chosen axis.
This is my opinion, but the view of the station should not interfere with the placement of the modules.

(someone can make a clear explainer video with the actual beta thk!)

Steph

[Eyeklops]

I forgot to mention I do design for a living and spend many hours a day rotating 3D models in CAD. I've used a few different CAD packages and probably the most intuitive interface I've used selects a point on the first surface under the mouse pointer and rotates the model at that point. If there is no surface under the mouse pointer rotate the model at the geometry bounding box center. I understand there is a fundamental difference between rotating the camera around a point and rotating the model (station) around a point and that the engine X4 is built on may not easily handle this.

[Zloth2]

Yes, so that it will easily snap to connectors without having to reposition the camera for special axis rotations. Usually one builds more than one module in a row and would speed up the process if you rotate one and then have the subsequent one keeping the same rotation.

If you're placing multiple of the same module you should use the copy function from the right-click menu. That makes a copy with an identical orientation.

Because right-click also does rotation, this often results in the module rotating as well as showing the menu item. Control-z undoes the rotate, so it isn't too bad if you know about control-z, but I don't think many people know that trick.

[X2-Eliah]

Some notes on the controls for station builder / editor...

The increased amount of rotation is neat, but honestly making (simple) stations is more frustrating now than it was before the change.

1st problem: How can I distinguish between "right click on module to rotate" and "right click on module to open the mini menu with "remove selection" etc. options"? Because jeez is it frustrating as hell when i try to get that menu to open and the module just spins around. And - idk if its down to framerate, or needing to keep the mouse perfectly still (won't happen with a high dpi / sensitivity mouse), but almost every time I want to bring up that right-click-menu on a module, it just rotates instead.

2nd problem: How can I lock the rotation around one of the axes (x, y, z) instead of the module seemingly selecting a random axis to rotate around? It's nice to have the ability for free rotation, sure, but from the interface I have no clue how to properly control that rotation. Looking at notes, there is supposed to be some auto-selection of the nearest axis? Well.. whichever axis gets selected, often does not coincide with the global axes of the sector.
Ideally a transform widget - like you have in Blender, Maya etc. - would be best, or *at least* being able to toggle a rotation (and translation) axis-lock. With the station builder I don't feel like I ever have control of all 3 dimensions when I'm moving things around.

[Incinerator]

Seems the sector view is not loaded correctly here.

Yup something similar happened, I was designing station in another sector, while on autopilot and my ship being in another sector elsewhere entered a highway, and boy did it mess up the designer view.

[G315t]

Yup something similar happened, I was designing station in another sector, while on autopilot and my ship being in another sector elsewhere entered a highway, and boy did it mess up the designer view.

I was also not in this sector but standing on the bridge of my destroyer in another sector.

[Zloth2]

Everything rotates around the center of the object, even when connected. It does not rotate around the connection. Furthermore, if the object is symmetrical, rotating still breaks the connection! For instance, attach a Protein Paste to a Teladi L Storage. Rotate the camera around so you are looking straight through the center of the PP module to the connection. Rotate the PP module 90 degrees so it's on its side. Rotate back around and you will see the connection arrows are back between the storage and the module.

This causes quite a few disconnects in large stations if you don't rotate first then attach. When you click on the very first module, only some of the station gets highlighted because attachments are broken.

I finally turned on the free camera. Not being able to use the mouse wheel is a pain but, if that's the price of the accelerating move speed, I'll take it. The free camera is far, far better at zooming into tight spots than the mouse wheel.

Any chance we could do the chunky rotate by default and hold shift down to do the free rotation? I find I almost always want the chunky rotate.