[TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

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alt3rn1ty
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by alt3rn1ty » Fri, 13. Aug 21, 21:57

DocAce wrote:
Fri, 13. Aug 21, 13:46
G315t wrote:
Fri, 13. Aug 21, 12:51
Do I have to remove the code line from the file now?
Only if you want to test the improved "classic" camera controls.
I have been testing beta 6 without removing the line - Very comfortable with the improvements to the experimental camera, its a lot more intuitive than previous in beta 5.

Just one more question regarding that line - On completion of the beta I guess we should remove the line?
So really we ought to now be testing what will become the improved classic as default.
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Zloth2 » Sat, 14. Aug 21, 06:26

Yeah, it's very nice now! I've still got the free camera line in, and being able to zoom with keyboard or mouse wheel has helped plenty. Rotating-on-right-click bug is good and dead.

My only problem with it now is that rotations seem to go backwards sometimes. I've got the part out in space, attached to nothing. It appears to be rotating around the center but, when I push up, the point I clicked goes down! It's easy to compensate, but I really shouldn't have to.

Green lines get left after placement pretty often. They don't hurt anything, but they don't look good.

Default of 60 degree jumps with the shift key is pretty high.

All in all, I was able to make a good sized station out of 74 modules without too much trouble.
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Ketraar » Sat, 14. Aug 21, 12:40

Zloth2 wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 06:26
Default of 60 degree jumps with the shift key is pretty high.
There is a options button where you can define the angle snap amount.

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Zloth2
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Zloth2 » Sat, 14. Aug 21, 16:18

Yes, I know, I used it. Before you use it, though, the default is 60 degrees. That seems really high to me.
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by G315t » Sat, 14. Aug 21, 19:32

Zloth2 wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 16:18
Yes, I know, I used it. Before you use it, though, the default is 60 degrees. That seems really high to me.
Yes 45° would make more sense for a start rotational value. And it also will help to align modules if you can rotate by 1/8 rotation steps. Usualy what you want most of the time basicaly is 1/4 rotation (90°)


Also for the Camera mode, I expect to have a Toggle for the Used Camera mode in the Game options menu after the 4.1 release and not change code in the INI file myself. But that probaply is planned anyway.

I hope we will get a rotation around the used connector when a module is placed because especialy with modules that have not a centered connector ( many production modules have no center connector) it can get a bit messy to use them.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Falcrack » Sat, 14. Aug 21, 22:05

G315t wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 19:32
Zloth2 wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 16:18
Yes, I know, I used it. Before you use it, though, the default is 60 degrees. That seems really high to me.
Yes 45° would make more sense for a start rotational value. And it also will help to align modules if you can rotate by 1/8 rotation steps. Usualy what you want most of the time basicaly is 1/4 rotation (90°)


Also for the Camera mode, I expect to have a Toggle for the Used Camera mode in the Game options menu after the 4.1 release and not change code in the INI file myself. But that probaply is planned anyway.

I hope we will get a rotation around the used connector when a module is placed because especialy with modules that have not a centered connector ( many production modules have no center connector) it can get a bit messy to use them.
I think 15° would be best for the rotation on modules when holding shift. with that, we could do 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90 degrees with no problem. In 4.1 beta 6, I feel that the 60° rotation is way too high, and does not allow me to do some things I was able to do before.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Buzz2005 » Sun, 15. Aug 21, 02:56

Falcrack wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 22:05
G315t wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 19:32
Zloth2 wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 16:18
Yes, I know, I used it. Before you use it, though, the default is 60 degrees. That seems really high to me.
Yes 45° would make more sense for a start rotational value. And it also will help to align modules if you can rotate by 1/8 rotation steps. Usualy what you want most of the time basicaly is 1/4 rotation (90°)


Also for the Camera mode, I expect to have a Toggle for the Used Camera mode in the Game options menu after the 4.1 release and not change code in the INI file myself. But that probaply is planned anyway.

I hope we will get a rotation around the used connector when a module is placed because especialy with modules that have not a centered connector ( many production modules have no center connector) it can get a bit messy to use them.
I think 15° would be best for the rotation on modules when holding shift. with that, we could do 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90 degrees with no problem. In 4.1 beta 6, I feel that the 60° rotation is way too high, and does not allow me to do some things I was able to do before.
You didn't notice the cog button instead of dice? its options like collisions and rotation degrees slider by 5° increments
Fixed ships getting spawned away from ship configuration menu at resupply ships from automatically getting deployables.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by adeine » Sun, 15. Aug 21, 07:07

G315t wrote:
Fri, 13. Aug 21, 13:43
I also still would prefer a simple 3D software style movement / rotation tool :!:
+1

Especially for rotation this would be the most intuitive and versatile control method.

Cratz wrote:
Fri, 6. Aug 21, 11:55
Btw the others modules are all in low quality during the loadout edit, i dont like.
Yeah, would it be possible to have LOD handling for external objects? It doesn't look great when you build close to gates/other objects right now:

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by G315t » Sun, 15. Aug 21, 13:09

Buzz2005 wrote:
Sun, 15. Aug 21, 02:56
Falcrack wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 22:05
G315t wrote:
Sat, 14. Aug 21, 19:32


Yes 45° would make more sense for a start rotational value. And it also will help to align modules if you can rotate by 1/8 rotation steps. Usualy what you want most of the time basicaly is 1/4 rotation (90°)


Also for the Camera mode, I expect to have a Toggle for the Used Camera mode in the Game options menu after the 4.1 release and not change code in the INI file myself. But that probaply is planned anyway.

I hope we will get a rotation around the used connector when a module is placed because especialy with modules that have not a centered connector ( many production modules have no center connector) it can get a bit messy to use them.
I think 15° would be best for the rotation on modules when holding shift. with that, we could do 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90 degrees with no problem. In 4.1 beta 6, I feel that the 60° rotation is way too high, and does not allow me to do some things I was able to do before.
You didn't notice the cog button instead of dice? its options like collisions and rotation degrees slider by 5° increments
Yes we have seen that we are talking about the starting value of the rotation when you use the builder without changing that number to your preferences.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by G315t » Sun, 15. Aug 21, 18:56

Steam User FPStewy just reported that the WASD Camera Movement in the station builder does not work as long as the game is paused.

Mouse dragging camera and building itself works.

I have confirmed that in my game. Please check, it probably has something to do with the fact that WASD is also mapped for walking which is of course not possible while the game is paused.

WASD Camera movement should be available in the editor even if the game is on hold.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Eyeklops » Mon, 16. Aug 21, 19:44

Feedback for BETA6 using classic camera controls:

FANTASTIC:
1. The "classic" camera move, pan, rotation, and zoom are excellent! The ability to pan up/down using the mouse is perfect. Overall the entire classic camera is very intuitive, great work!!. I will probably not be using the new camera control style as the classic is wonderful now.

2. The bug where clicking a module (moving the rotation center to the module) and then trying to drag the module (which reset the camera rotation origin point) appears fixed.

3. The new options box for toggling background scene and module occlusion are very nice.

ENHANCEMENT REQUESTS:
4. Any of the following would be nice to have for managing module configurations: Option to select preferred large/medium turret & large/medium shield per station and/or globally and/or by preset (low/medium/high) for all modules at once. Checkbox on the module editor or "right click" context menu to apply turret and shield configuration to all modules of the same type at once. Either one of these would save me hours of time.

5. Option to toggle angle snap to always on where pressing shift would allow free rotation. I find myself using shift more than not when rotating.

6. Addition of HQ module (big ring with giant rock in the middle) to the "new game" station designer. If this is the wrong thread for this request I can repost it elsewhere.

BUGS:
7. Frequently when I rotate an unconnected module it will flip 180deg (on the connection axis) upon connection to another module. I've had this happen to newly inserted and copies of existing modules. This happens very frequently when I am copying a sequence to rotate around an object such as the Terran round dock. I don't have the exact repro steps for this but could probably figure them out if requested.

ODD BEHAVIOR:
8. When a module is placed illegally (highlighted red) it can be difficult to remove as no right click menu will appear. This can be a minor annoyance.


SUMMARY: From 4.00 to 4.10 beta5 to 4.10 beta6 the station editor has made huge advancements in usability and features. There appear to be little bugs and oddities left to address. Some enhancements could be made but overall the Station Designer is now very flexible and intuitive. I want to applaud the development team for some fantastic work here. WELL DONE!

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by DocAce » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25

Specific question to you "power users" :)

Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Roeleveld » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:55

DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Specific question to you "power users" :)

Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.
How much effort will it be to leave both in with the option to switch while in-game?

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by G315t » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:59

DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Specific question to you "power users" :)

Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.
Oh well for me the way the Standard camera reacts to my mouse input feels discomfortable (somehow i allways get confused about the way it moves the view if i move my mouse to one side i do not expect the view to zoom in or out but to move left and right) and I like the freedom of the free camera mode. But no, its not very superior to the regular mode.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by G315t » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 12:38

G315t wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:59
DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Specific question to you "power users" :)

Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.
Oh well for me the way the Standard camera reacts to my mouse input feels discomfortable (somehow i allways get confused about the way it moves the view if i move my mouse to one side i do not expect the view to zoom in or out but to move left and right) and I like the freedom of the free camera mode. But no, its not very superior to the regular mode.
Hm don't know. I just checked it out again. maybe I just got confused the last time. I can move the way I need to.

Just one thing you need to change. The Camera Movement if maximum zoomed in is absoutley useless because it is too slow if you use the mouse dragging. And WASD is also way to slow in maximum zoom.

If I'm zoomed in and i click on the screen on the left side and I move my mouse completely to the right side the whole viewport only moves like 0.5 cm or so.

Also the zoom in level of the mouse wheel is not good. If you are completely zoomed in you need least 10 "clicks" or "turns" until you are zoomed out far enough so that it makes any difference.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 13:41

DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?
Strong preference for the free view camera here.

For the sort of stations I tend to build it's pretty much ideal & would definitely miss it if it was removed. Makes it much easier to work on very large, densely packed structures (e.g.https://www.dropbox.com/s/edkv685qdxh16 ... 1.jpg?dl=0) if, for example, I can move the camera below the station & then look down, thus keeping the majority of the station (& it's snap points) out of view.

Adding this stuff (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkl3b2eqavxxm ... 1.jpg?dl=0) onto the bottom of that station was easy with the free view camera. Would have been much more awkward using the standard camera (building the level above it before the free view camera was available certainly was).

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by alt3rn1ty » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 18:08

DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.
Oh hell yeah dont remove the Experimental freecam .. I wasn't sure at first introduction, but since your fixes in Beta 6 Experimental is just about as intuitive as standard, plus I would now really miss the Experimental freecam's ability to manipulate modules "underneath" the station. Its been mentioned by others before me but the freedom you have when zoomed in down there opens up a lot more editing ability.

Standard now just feels like the games Map UI, where ships flying down below the plane of the eclyptic in the game just become very slow things and sometimes lose the plot on attacking targets. Except its you losing the will to live zooming down there and trying to move around.
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Eyeklops » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 18:20

alt3rn1ty wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 18:08
DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.
Oh hell yeah dont remove the Experimental freecam .. I wasn't sure at first introduction, but since your fixes in Beta 6 Experimental is just about as intuitive as standard, plus I would now really miss the Experimental freecam's ability to manipulate modules "underneath" the station. Its been mentioned by others before me but the freedom you have when zoomed in down there opens up a lot more editing ability.

Standard now just feels like the games Map UI, where ships flying down below the plane of the eclyptic in the game just become very slow things and sometimes lose the plot on attacking targets. Except its you losing the will to live zooming down there and trying to move around.
Have you tried the beta6 standard camera? You can pan all the way to the bottom easily now by holding the left mouse button. I agree that prior to beta6 working on "tall" stations was a pain but now it's easy peezy lemon squeezy to get the rotation center where you want it. I did use the freecam during beta5 and can see where it's useful but overall feel more productive having my rotation center on or near the object I'm trying to manipulate.

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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by alt3rn1ty » Tue, 17. Aug 21, 19:51

Eyeklops wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 18:20
alt3rn1ty wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 18:08
DocAce wrote:
Tue, 17. Aug 21, 11:25
Does anyone think the free view camera is still significantly superior to the "standard" one after testing the latest iterations of both? If so, what in particular would you be missing if we were to remove this experimental mode?

I'm not saying we'll do that for sure, we're trying to figure out what the state in the released version is going to be.
Oh hell yeah dont remove the Experimental freecam .. I wasn't sure at first introduction, but since your fixes in Beta 6 Experimental is just about as intuitive as standard, plus I would now really miss the Experimental freecam's ability to manipulate modules "underneath" the station. Its been mentioned by others before me but the freedom you have when zoomed in down there opens up a lot more editing ability.

Standard now just feels like the games Map UI, where ships flying down below the plane of the eclyptic in the game just become very slow things and sometimes lose the plot on attacking targets. Except its you losing the will to live zooming down there and trying to move around.
Have you tried the beta6 standard camera? You can pan all the way to the bottom easily now by holding the left mouse button. I agree that prior to beta6 working on "tall" stations was a pain but now it's easy peezy lemon squeezy to get the rotation center where you want it. I did use the freecam during beta5 and can see where it's useful but overall feel more productive having my rotation center on or near the object I'm trying to manipulate.
Yes, Standard mode you can right mouse n drag to get a side on view, then use WASD to go in/out/left/right, and left mouse to pan up/down/left/right - But there are limitations to how far zooming in you can go with the mouse scroll wheel before it goes into slow down mode, so you have to kind of reposition to get more zoomability without the swimming through treacle effect.

Experimental freecam imho is much better because you dont get any of that slowing down to "swimming through treacle" effect at all. Panning with the keys is a bit slower, but imho is a good speed, could be a bit quicker to be honest ...

Its a bit of a toss up between the two, and both modes will be a bit of a shock for anyone who has not participated in the beta when it goes live, they will all be dragging their brains through the mud with a slight learning curve same as everyone who has not played this game before and had to get used to the old editor for the first time.

But out of the two for me personally I would rather not have that gradual zooming slow down at all which is what Experimental mode gives us (with a few other small differences in which keys do what).
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor

Post by Zloth2 » Wed, 18. Aug 21, 03:01

I tried turning off the free camera. When I used the default system, it only likes to go down to the half way point then it slows and stops. What's more, I got stuck on that plane! I used X to zoom down as far as I could, turned the camera some, then used X and was able to go down just a little more. After that, though, I was stuck and could no longer go up or down!

The free camera feels best to me. I'm used to using that sort of camera for taking screenshots. I don't even bother with the slide up/down option, I just point where I want to go, use X & Z to get there, then turn the camera with the right mouse button held down to point where I want to go. Being trapped above the plane doesn't work well for me at all. It's too hard to see what's going on near the bottom!
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