[TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Moderator: DevNet Public Moderators
Default "basic" editor, but possible to switch to "advanced" ?
Hi,
The possiblities with the new editor are really great, but i would really like to have the basic (current) one, just for building kind of standard stations and , with the possibility to switch to the advanced mode for professionals to have complete freedom.
Just a hotkey including the message "please read the manual in the egosoft forum to use it" would make life much easier for beginners to start with their first stations, because the new editor mode is not really easy to handle in the current state, but in case some wants to have all three axis enabled - yes....do what ever you want...
Just my 3 cents...
Best regards
WoodyAut
The possiblities with the new editor are really great, but i would really like to have the basic (current) one, just for building kind of standard stations and , with the possibility to switch to the advanced mode for professionals to have complete freedom.
Just a hotkey including the message "please read the manual in the egosoft forum to use it" would make life much easier for beginners to start with their first stations, because the new editor mode is not really easy to handle in the current state, but in case some wants to have all three axis enabled - yes....do what ever you want...
Just my 3 cents...
Best regards
WoodyAut
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
One more thing....
Maybe i am really too stupid to get the logic of the new editor, but i just managed it once a little time ago to add a module on the headquarter on one of the connectionpoints outside the 90° - no idea how i did it, but now i am failing to add another module at another connectionpoint....and yes....i read the manual....i guess any newbie would be pretty demotivated at some point....
I am really hoping for some additional options for easier building....or the possiblity to switch back to the old editor, which was much more intuitive....
Best regards
WoodyAut
Maybe i am really too stupid to get the logic of the new editor, but i just managed it once a little time ago to add a module on the headquarter on one of the connectionpoints outside the 90° - no idea how i did it, but now i am failing to add another module at another connectionpoint....and yes....i read the manual....i guess any newbie would be pretty demotivated at some point....
I am really hoping for some additional options for easier building....or the possiblity to switch back to the old editor, which was much more intuitive....
Best regards
WoodyAut
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Free Camera YAY!
This is a big Step in the right direction.
Tested the Station Editor with the free camera unlocked.
A few things I did stumble about or would like to be changed (added).
1. Right now the camera controls are aligned to the perspective of the Camera, I rather would prefer it to be static XYZ.
2. 15° rotation steps would be amazing to simulate increments of either half steps of the 120° and 90° angle connector.
3. Mapping module rotation to the Num-Pad, please.
4. Building in-game (unpaused) causes the background perspective to shift if the player model moves (travels on a ship) would be great if this would not happen.
5. Some keybind changes to the camera would be appreciated WASD for up, left, down, right and z, x for forward and backward would be greatly appreciated giving the input scheme more we look at the blueprints than we actually fly inside the scene vibe.
6. Rotating a module can pretty fast turn into frustration with the POV relative rotation axis a UI-based transformation tool would go a long way.
7. The Station Editor scene illumination is close (identical) to the sector resulting in overpowering or dark scenes the option to switch to a baseline illumination would improve visibility a lot.
8. None Focus modules in the loadout view are rendered with extremely low LOD and without surface modules (weapons/shields) I would love those to be rendered either in full detail or if performance is a concern near full detail possible a darker shade.
9. Station modules missing direction indicators for mass traffic ports and docking lanes, the one would help to guide the station traffic the other could help to fix potential docking issues before they happen.
10. The L/XL docking Exclusion Zone for all modules is way too extensive no Ship is even remotely ever use the space, trimming those substantial down would go a long way. Extensive testing prior to the clipping purge did show it would not have any noticeable impact.
11. For Orientation inside the plot some sort of ecliptic or grid would go a long way IMHO.
And now back to Station building.
This is a big Step in the right direction.
Tested the Station Editor with the free camera unlocked.
A few things I did stumble about or would like to be changed (added).
1. Right now the camera controls are aligned to the perspective of the Camera, I rather would prefer it to be static XYZ.
2. 15° rotation steps would be amazing to simulate increments of either half steps of the 120° and 90° angle connector.
3. Mapping module rotation to the Num-Pad, please.
4. Building in-game (unpaused) causes the background perspective to shift if the player model moves (travels on a ship) would be great if this would not happen.
5. Some keybind changes to the camera would be appreciated WASD for up, left, down, right and z, x for forward and backward would be greatly appreciated giving the input scheme more we look at the blueprints than we actually fly inside the scene vibe.
6. Rotating a module can pretty fast turn into frustration with the POV relative rotation axis a UI-based transformation tool would go a long way.
7. The Station Editor scene illumination is close (identical) to the sector resulting in overpowering or dark scenes the option to switch to a baseline illumination would improve visibility a lot.
8. None Focus modules in the loadout view are rendered with extremely low LOD and without surface modules (weapons/shields) I would love those to be rendered either in full detail or if performance is a concern near full detail possible a darker shade.
9. Station modules missing direction indicators for mass traffic ports and docking lanes, the one would help to guide the station traffic the other could help to fix potential docking issues before they happen.
10. The L/XL docking Exclusion Zone for all modules is way too extensive no Ship is even remotely ever use the space, trimming those substantial down would go a long way. Extensive testing prior to the clipping purge did show it would not have any noticeable impact.
11. For Orientation inside the plot some sort of ecliptic or grid would go a long way IMHO.
And now back to Station building.
X2: You better go play with asteroids!/You losssssee profitsssss!
X4: Chelt are better pilot then you!/Machine behave badly Split switch off.
X4: Chelt are better pilot then you!/Machine behave badly Split switch off.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
I think it's great that you can now rotate the modules freely.
But it's also problematic.
How about new key assignments:
Shift + Q / Shift + E == yaw
Shift + A / Shift + D == roll
Shift + W / Shift + S == pitch
But it's also problematic.
How about new key assignments:
Shift + Q / Shift + E == yaw
Shift + A / Shift + D == roll
Shift + W / Shift + S == pitch
Verkaufe Bergungsversicherung ... oh doch , die brauchst Du ... *tick* *tack* *tick* *tack*
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
At this point the rotation issues have been repeatedly made clear and various suggestion brought forward. Not to sound ungrateful, but about that specific features I think we can say that all has been said. Lets wait for any updates on that and then have another go at another round of feedback.
MFG
Ketraar
MFG
Ketraar
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
So far I am liking the experimental free camera. One improvement I would really like to see is the ability to use the mouse’s scroll wheel to zoom in and out in addition to z and x. Also, I noticed that when you confirm module changes, your camera resets to being far away, making it a bit tedious to set back into place with the slower camera movement, but this is pretty minor.
One issue I did notice with the closer zoom ability is that it is now harder to copy modules in some cases as they can sometimes appear outside of your field of view and require you to zoom out to find them.
Overall I’ve found these changes to be a huge improvement!
One issue I did notice with the closer zoom ability is that it is now harder to copy modules in some cases as they can sometimes appear outside of your field of view and require you to zoom out to find them.
Overall I’ve found these changes to be a huge improvement!
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
This is a not a tester's feedback. This is a random thoughts about overall design approach.
Spoiler
Show
The things which could be done easier:
- no need to free rotate of any module at any place because what really does matter is rotation around one axis when the module already attached to previous module
Since we have a solid station and do not want modules floating in empty space not linked to other modules(if we do then please discard the letters below and stop reading) then easier /more user friendly build flow seems look like:
1. user puts first module at any place inside station plot, its orientation is fixed, and seems it does not matter since user can rotate station plot. Or OK, let user rotate very first module only.
2. now user have joints which the module provides and to which we can attach new modules
3. user selects available joint to attach new module
4. user selects module using UI according to available blueprints, the editor shows preview of the new module attached to the joint. It's orientation is fixed by provided joint by two axes (I assume I missed nothing here)
5. user can rotate this attached module by one axis only (which looks easier) and press OK
6. goto 3
Some editing might go out of station plot in this case the game should show warning, automatically recalculate required plot and show "Accept plot changes"
UI can provide list of all available joints as a tree view grouped by modules, in this case user can use the list to select the joint instead of clicking on 3d view.
Once the user selects the module camera should focus on the joint, user can control the camera the same way as free external camera in the game(double F3), that is, zoom in/out, rotate around using right mouse button.
Once user selects new module with a joint selected camera should focus on the module.
Seems pretty simple. At least from user's point of view.
Sorry if I missed something.
Thank you for your time!
- no need to free rotate of any module at any place because what really does matter is rotation around one axis when the module already attached to previous module
Since we have a solid station and do not want modules floating in empty space not linked to other modules(if we do then please discard the letters below and stop reading) then easier /more user friendly build flow seems look like:
1. user puts first module at any place inside station plot, its orientation is fixed, and seems it does not matter since user can rotate station plot. Or OK, let user rotate very first module only.
2. now user have joints which the module provides and to which we can attach new modules
3. user selects available joint to attach new module
4. user selects module using UI according to available blueprints, the editor shows preview of the new module attached to the joint. It's orientation is fixed by provided joint by two axes (I assume I missed nothing here)
5. user can rotate this attached module by one axis only (which looks easier) and press OK
6. goto 3
Some editing might go out of station plot in this case the game should show warning, automatically recalculate required plot and show "Accept plot changes"
UI can provide list of all available joints as a tree view grouped by modules, in this case user can use the list to select the joint instead of clicking on 3d view.
Once the user selects the module camera should focus on the joint, user can control the camera the same way as free external camera in the game(double F3), that is, zoom in/out, rotate around using right mouse button.
Once user selects new module with a joint selected camera should focus on the module.
Seems pretty simple. At least from user's point of view.
Sorry if I missed something.
Thank you for your time!
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Since this is a perfectly valid station design, I'm afraid the rest of your post is moot.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Good to know, thanks!
I just have never seen npc stations with this design approach, but OK.)
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
ALi and a certain other Faction use Satellite modules in their Station designs.
X2: You better go play with asteroids!/You losssssee profitsssss!
X4: Chelt are better pilot then you!/Machine behave badly Split switch off.
X4: Chelt are better pilot then you!/Machine behave badly Split switch off.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
The main problem I'm having with the new editor is SEEING the station I'm working on.
It doesn't stay highlighted even a little bit when I move the mouse off of it.... this is really annoying!
I have to say the background, while nice looking, just detracts from the editing too.
It doesn't stay highlighted even a little bit when I move the mouse off of it.... this is really annoying!
I have to say the background, while nice looking, just detracts from the editing too.
Editing posts since long before I remember.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Oh no, it doesn't just detract at all. I set up a station just before this beta hit and found all my defensive platforms were on the wrong side of the station - away from the gate. Knowing where the gates and/or highway are is very important! Knowing how your current module fits in to the rest of the station is important when setting up storage/production turrets, too.
But yes, the background can make it hard, depending on the sector. It's not like we need the background there all the time, either, so having a toggle would be useful.
But yes, the background can make it hard, depending on the sector. It's not like we need the background there all the time, either, so having a toggle would be useful.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the
timid." ---- Q
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the
timid." ---- Q
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
I barely believe that each module on user stations is separated and thus each of them requires unique orientation.Alith-Ahnar wrote: ↑Tue, 3. Aug 21, 22:31ALi and a certain other Faction use Satellite modules in their Station designs.
The flow I suggested seems to be easier then existing one when user builds solid stations since it does not require module orientation which implementation does not look clear and intuitive for now.
I did not suggest to refuse to build not solid stations.
I should admit that using the editor I've managed to rotate modules till snapping guides appear and attach new module to existing joints and thus proceed with the station build, and I am quite happy with that; but I am not sure that I am fluent with the station editor and not sure that I am able to achieve station with freely oriented modules according to my expectations.
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.
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Turning station construction elements is difficult
Hello,
If I have to turn an element with the right mouse button when building a station in order to attach it somewhere, it takes a long time for me to find the right position because I can turn the segment in all directions. There is definitely a way to do it better, I would like to know.
If I have to turn an element with the right mouse button when building a station in order to attach it somewhere, it takes a long time for me to find the right position because I can turn the segment in all directions. There is definitely a way to do it better, I would like to know.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
When I make a station in the station architect start, the free camera accelerates when I hold down a movement key. When I edit a station in my normal save game, it doesn't.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the
timid." ---- Q
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the
timid." ---- Q
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
[4.10 Beta 5] I found a bug in the station editor, i added a terran disc defense module and when i edit the loadout i see a terran pier 3 E ghost.
Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/q2B9j9w
Btw the others modules are all in low quality during the loadout edit, i dont like.
Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/q2B9j9w
Btw the others modules are all in low quality during the loadout edit, i dont like.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Savegame: https://www.mediafire.com/file/0r9ych4b ... 29.gz/file (rename the file quicksave.xml(2).gz to quicksave.xml.gz)Cratz wrote: ↑Fri, 6. Aug 21, 11:55[4.10 Beta 5] I found a bug in the station editor, i added a terran disc defense module and when i edit the loadout i see a terran pier 3 E ghost.
Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/q2B9j9w
Btw the others modules are all in low quality during the loadout edit, i dont like.
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Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
The new camera mode is horrible!
Slow, cumbersome, uncomfortable. I built quite a bit in the game. Obviously I’m used to the previous one and it can affect, but this new one is a strong setback for me. It may seem simple to a novice player, but the old one is much more usable!
The station editor is good. Module rotating was a good idea! The colour of the modules is ideal.
Slow, cumbersome, uncomfortable. I built quite a bit in the game. Obviously I’m used to the previous one and it can affect, but this new one is a strong setback for me. It may seem simple to a novice player, but the old one is much more usable!
The station editor is good. Module rotating was a good idea! The colour of the modules is ideal.
Re: [TESTREQUEST] Station Editor
Szines Geza wrote: ↑Thu, 12. Aug 21, 06:08The new camera mode is horrible!
Slow, cumbersome, uncomfortable. I built quite a bit in the game. Obviously I’m used to the previous one and it can affect, but this new one is a strong setback for me. It may seem simple to a novice player, but the old one is much more usable!
The station editor is good. Module rotating was a good idea! The colour of the modules is ideal.
I like the new camera, but yes it has to be made faster, its to slow. Especialy because the movement acceleration does not work all the time. So sometimes you move with the slowest speed.