[3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

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GCU Grey Area
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 28. Jan 20, 00:01

Arkblade wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 22:05
Basically, I think all Docked ships in this feature should be go to Internal Storage.
Prefer if they didn't. Like to boost the firepower of XL ships by parking M gunships on their landing pads. From the sound of it I will need to use the 'docked' setting to keep them there after the bug fix mentioned above is released. If they end up in internal storage instead it would defeat the entire purpose of putting them there. Think adding an explicit 'keep in internal storage' setting would be a better approach for keeping landing pads clear.

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Arkblade
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by Arkblade » Tue, 28. Jan 20, 06:25

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 28. Jan 20, 00:01
Arkblade wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 22:05
Basically, I think all Docked ships in this feature should be go to Internal Storage.
Prefer if they didn't. Like to boost the firepower of XL ships by parking M gunships on their landing pads. From the sound of it I will need to use the 'docked' setting to keep them there after the bug fix mentioned above is released. If they end up in internal storage instead it would defeat the entire purpose of putting them there. Think adding an explicit 'keep in internal storage' setting would be a better approach for keeping landing pads clear.
I think the option to set the docking behavior is good.It can meet the needs of both those who always want to clean the docking pad and those who don't.
In any case, catapult(launch tube) should be used correctly and effectively.
On the other hand, i think that allowing a docking pad gun boat to be treated as an additional battery is essentially a kind of exploit...
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Scoob
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by Scoob » Tue, 28. Jan 20, 16:22

I did propose we gain a "Store" option for any ships docked on a pad, so we can manually order them to be stowed away.

This would be good to protect vulnerable ships parked on a pad - I've had vessels destroyed while docked at a ship the attacker can barely scratch. So, this feature would both help protect docked ships and allow quicker launches via the launch tubes....though I'm not sure they're 100% working currently as my Colossus's don't appear to use them.

Being able to highlight multiple ships, or selecting a Group, and then being able to order "Stow Ships" (or something along those lines) would be very welcome. Not really something to discuss in this thread, but, as I mentioned, I did suggest we gain this option previously. Plus, it is relevant I feel in regards to overall Carrier Group management.

Note: an optional flag to request that ships are always stowed away might be welcome too. I like a nice, tidy deck on my Carrier-class ships :)

Thanks again to j.harshaw for his work both bug fixing and explaining how things are supposed to work. I've not had chance to play since, but I hope to be able to reproduce the "not reacting to attackers" issue I mention above.

Scoob.

BardicHeart
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by BardicHeart » Fri, 31. Jan 20, 00:35

I've been testing various things in the 3.0 Beta 5 and has some notes specifically regarding carriers after getting a chance to test quite a bit of it in a major battle.

What I observed was the following:

-------------------------------------------

If ships are ordered to be docked, they do indeed stay docked and do not respond to attacks on the carrier or supply ship. That command seems to be working as intended.

Fighters set to intercept will dock at the carrier and launch only when valid targets (S or M ships) are nearby. The carrier commander seems to do an adequate job launching sufficient fighters to overwhelm the target. Example: my carrier launches 5 Eclipse fighters to deal with on Perseus or Theseus fighter. It sent 2 Nemesis corvettes and 4 fighters to deal with a lone HOP Nemesis corvette.

Since I don't order my carrier to attack anything, the attack command isn't very useful to me and I didn't get to test it much (I don't send my carriers directly into a fight, I send the carried ships and destroyer escorts in while the carrier and supply ship hang back).

Defense seems to work okay so far, have not tested too much (most things use the intercept setting and nothing significant has gotten near my carrier).

Fighters automatically repair when they dock. (I'd seen some posts saying they were not, in my test they did so repeatedly and reliably with no intervention on my part, it was automatic and seems to be working properly).

--------------------------------

That's the good news, now for the bad:

When fighters are assigned to a carrier for the first time they don't always adopt the correct behavior. Ships set to Intercept or Defense may or may not dock and wait for a threat. They may instead they fly in formation with the carrier. Removing them from their assignment and then re-assigning them seems to fix this fairly reliably.

Other ships, such as destroyers, assigned to a carrier as Defense or Attack may or may not move into formation. Its very glitchy and often the ships either follow at a distance or just sit somewhere until something triggers them to get in formation. No matter what I try, I can't get them to reliably move into and stay in formation or return to formation after attacking something. Sometimes they return to formation after attacking something, sometimes they don't. Something is definitely not updating their behavior properly in this regard.

That's it for the bad news.

--- Suggestions ----

Some new orders for groups as follows:

Patrol - ships (probably fighters or M class ships) assigned to this will fly a "cap" around the carrier, patrolling withing its radar range and reacting as if they were set to Intercept. Anything they can see the carrier can see, so they may at times extend its radar range and thus the range other ships set to Intercept will react. For added flexibility, allow us to configure the range of their patrol, up to 80 or 100 km out. A wing of fast fighters set for this could give the carrier a nice set of "eyes".

Assault - ships assigned to this order will target capital ships and while ignoring S/M ships. Useful for assigned destroyers and other "heavy" escorts or for fighter bombers meant to attack capital ships (Example: This would work well with a wing of Pulsar fighters armed with torpedoes, they would only launch to attack a capital ships which is their purpose, the whole thing could then be automated which would be quite nice).

---

It would be nice if each ship / fighter group on the carrier has a numerical listing for the number of ships in that specific group. Example: On my carrier I have the Alpha group of 5 destroyers, Beta group consists of 8 Nemesis corvettes, Gamma, Delta, Theta and Zeta wings are 10 Eclipse fighters each. However, when the fighters occasionally take losses I may not notice because there's no individual tally for each of those wings as to how many fighters are actually in it so I have to manually look and count to make sure they are at full strength. The fleet only tells me the total number of fighters in the fleet, but since my supply ship carriers a number of reserve fighters so I can quickly replace losses, that total is for the fleet, not the wings on the carrier itself. Hope that was clear.

In a related issue, it would be nice if we had some way of assigning Supply ships to follow a different formation, such as Line Astern so that they stay behind the fleet they are supporting rather than ending up in the main attack formation. It would also be good if there was a way to order them to maintain a defensive posture, that is if the fleet is ordered to attack something they automatically hang back and don't directly engage unless specifically ordered to do so. They are support ships after all, not front line combat ships. This later behavior would also be useful for carriers so that they too automatically would hang back and let their fighters and destroyer escorts directly engage.

That's all I got on carriers for now. Hope it was helpful.

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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by Scoob » Fri, 31. Jan 20, 04:15

Once the fix j.harshaw is working on is in, and these commands are all working as intended, I wonder if we'll gain similar Defend, Attack, Intercept type commands for station subordinates?

Defend might work as now, with ships being sent to escort Trade and Mining ships. Attack could be do direct the subordinate group to direcly engage the target of the station - I assume Stations can pick targets too. While "Intercept" would allow for more long-range attacks by the station.

While useful on any station that might see hostiles, being able to do this on Defence-oriented stations would be great. Have them act like a static carrier in essence.

Basically, once these commands are working as intended, there are more uses for them. I for one like the idea of making a "Fighter Base" type station, that sends ships to Intercept any hostiles within its operational range. This would be good for regular stations too, why wait for an enemy to attack?

General "Patrol" behaviours sometime lead to less than desirable results as ships wander quite a distance. Defend area type commands do work, but I think having ships assigned to a station - allowing them to dock between sorties - would be pretty cool.

Thought: these extra commands / station abilities could unlock with certain Modules, rather than being available to anything with a Dock.

Scoob.

Tenoso
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by Tenoso » Fri, 31. Jan 20, 10:21

I have the same problem that my hunters don't dock and fly alongside instead of docking. :(

BardicHeart
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by BardicHeart » Sat, 1. Feb 20, 18:41

For stations I'd like to see something similar, specifically:

Defend - Ships say docked and only launch if the station is attacked

Patrol - Ships assigned to this fly a 'station protect' mission around the station. It would be nice if we could tell them to group up in groups of 2, 3, 5 or so, such that they automatically attempt to form small wings; but not necessary.

Escort - Ships assigned to this will be assigned by the station manager to escort station freighters, only ships assigned to this 'pool' will be used for this, so we can have ships assigned to stations on defense or patrol and they only do that, escorts are the only ones used as escorts.

-------------------

I've noticed that the carrier commands, while available to destroyers and frigates don't actually seem to work. Setting fighters to docked or launched on a Behemoth has no affect, neither does assigning them to Attack or Intercept. They still fly the old Defend mission. Hopefully once they get the carriers working 100% properly this will get ported over to the destroyers as well.

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mr.WHO
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 2. Feb 20, 19:15

j.harshaw wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 13:23
Tamina wrote:
Sun, 26. Jan 20, 16:12
The new behaviour options are very welcome but in order to beta test this new functionality we need the exact intentions from the developers.
Subordinate group modes:
Attack - Ships will attack their commander's target.
Intercept - Ships will attack any hostile non-capital ships that come into their operational range*.
Defend - Prior escort behavior before new modes were implemented. Think of this as automatic mode. Subordinate behavior depends a lot on what their commander is doing at the time.

Docked - Orders all subordinates in the specified group to dock and ignore all targets including their commanders' attackers. Does not affect ships that are unable to dock at their commander.
Launched - Orders all subordinates in the specified group to act on their specified behavior. (Note that for fighters subordinate to a carrier, this may mean that they stay docked at their commander.)
On those last two, please note the bug acknowledged in the post right above this one. You should get the fix for that bug in a future update.

* Operational range is always their commander's radar range. This was implemented this way for clarity since this is what you see as what your ship is aware of.
These group modes are great, but I'd add one mode to make it complete:
Strike/Bomber - Ships will attack any hostile capital ships that come into their operational range*.

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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by tomchk » Thu, 27. Feb 20, 22:10

Sorry if this is answered somewhere, but are launch tubes actually working now? I searched and couldn't find a video or answer, and I can't test soon. Anyone have a video of them? Thanks!

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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by Alith-Ahnar » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 00:40

tomchk wrote:
Thu, 27. Feb 20, 22:10
Sorry if this is answered somewhere, but are launch tubes actually working now? I searched and couldn't find a video or answer, and I can't test soon. Anyone have a video of them? Thanks!
As long as the ship is stored internal they are used.
Unless there was or is a particular Carrier/AUX that has troubles with those.

One of the reasons why some people advocate for a automatic internal storage on landing.
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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by tomchk » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 04:15

Thanks! Good idea if it’s an option at least. I know some want craft to stay on top. Do you know which ships have launch tubes? I’ve only heard about the Nomad.

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Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Post by Scoob » Mon, 2. Mar 20, 14:17

Hi,

I noticed there's still an issue here. While ships on my Carrier set to "Defend" and "Launched" stay docked until the Carrier is threatened, deal with the enemy - if they are able - and return to the dock, this does not happen for my L-Class Freighters.

I assigned a group of S-Class Scouts to one of my L-Class Freighters and set them to "Defend" and "Launched" so they'd launch if needed. However, as soon as these orders are set, they insta-launch then go into "escort" mode, following the Freighter in formation while in-sector.

This is fine, but not working as advertised as there are zero threats present so the Freighter should not be launching its ships. A potential added complication to this is that the Freighter can then take an age - if the player is in-sector - when it decides to "recall subordinates" before going through a gate for example.

My assumption was that the "Defend" and "Launched" behaviour should be consistent, regardless of the ship they're based on?

Scoob.

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