Page 2 of 3

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Sun, 26. Jan 20, 17:15
by Alith-Ahnar
Tamina wrote:
Sun, 26. Jan 20, 16:12
The new behaviour options are very welcome but in order to beta test this new functionality we need the exact intentions from the developers. A simple straight forward forum post about the design goals (User stories?)!
+1

This would be in general very helpful with all the more complex systems and changes.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Sun, 26. Jan 20, 17:19
by Scoob
Quick note to say, I'm aware that the things we're suggesting in this thread (the additional options I mean) might seem to be adding an extra layer of complexity. However, this complexity doesn't mean it's complicated. These are all pretty logical, in my mind at least, options to improve the game and the behaviour of large groups of assets working together.

If the options for each individual Wing assigned to a Carrier become more Complex, then an ability to save behavioural templates would be amazing.

Anyway, I want to re-iterate what I've said previously in that I'm very pleased Egosoft are implementing decent Group features like this. Plus my constant rambling on about this and the issues I'm having is because I want this feature to be the best it can be. Fleet movement and engagements in X4 are going to be far superior to any prior X game because of it.

Scoob.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Sun, 26. Jan 20, 19:57
by HeinzS
That would be something for the XLOG, not the constant explanations that most people already know.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 11:57
by j.harshaw
Scoob wrote:
Fri, 24. Jan 20, 23:59
I have a Carrier with a variety of ship assigned to it in "Defence".

Third, there's "Gamma" Group, which is made up of various Fighters - these ships are set to "Docked".

Forth, there's "Delta" Group, which is made up of various Scouts - these ships are set to "Docked".

Fifth, there's "Epsilon" Group, which is also made up of various Scouts - there ships are set to "Docked".

I ordered the Carrier to attack an SCA Station. It moved forward as expected, but started launching Fighters and Scouts from groups Gamma, Delta and Epsilon
Bug. Fix should get to you in a future update. Thanks for the report.

Note that this setting will have no effect on subordinates that cannot dock at their commander.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 13:23
by j.harshaw
Tamina wrote:
Sun, 26. Jan 20, 16:12
The new behaviour options are very welcome but in order to beta test this new functionality we need the exact intentions from the developers.
Subordinate group modes:
Attack - Ships will attack their commander's target.
Intercept - Ships will attack any hostile non-capital ships that come into their operational range*.
Defend - Prior escort behavior before new modes were implemented. Think of this as automatic mode. Subordinate behavior depends a lot on what their commander is doing at the time.

Docked - Orders all subordinates in the specified group to dock and ignore all targets including their commanders' attackers. Does not affect ships that are unable to dock at their commander.
Launched - Orders all subordinates in the specified group to act on their specified behavior. (Note that for fighters subordinate to a carrier, this may mean that they stay docked at their commander.)
On those last two, please note the bug acknowledged in the post right above this one. You should get the fix for that bug in a future update.

* Operational range is always their commander's radar range. This was implemented this way for clarity since this is what you see as what your ship is aware of.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 15:52
by Scoob
Thanks @j.harshaw.

I appreciate the bug fix and the clarification of behaviour.

I will of course test further when the next update is out, however, does your recent fix affect any of the other oddness I experienced? For example: "Launched" ships set to "Defend" ignoring attacks on the Carrier? I had ships sat in formation around my Carrier failing to react to attackers.

Will this update be part of a hotfix, or will it wait until Beta 6 do you know? Obviously it's fairly critical to fleets working properly.

Cheers,

Scoob.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 16:47
by j.harshaw
Scoob wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 15:52
For example: "Launched" ships set to "Defend" ignoring attacks on the Carrier?
Did none of the ships set to defend respond to the attacks? If none of them did, that would be a bug. They don't all respond to every attack to prevent being able to effectively kite all of a carrier group's escorts with a minor nuisance attack. That said, there should be a response, and the response should escalate if the responding ships find that they've bitten off more than they can chew.
Scoob wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 15:52
Will this update be part of a hotfix, or will it wait until Beta 6 do you know? Obviously it's fairly critical to fleets working properly.
No idea, unfortunately. I'm not involved in deciding which components go into which builds unless asked about something specific.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 17:10
by Scoob
Yes, none of them responded. The attack was by an SCA S-Class ships (Kestrel's, Discoverers) and the defending fighters (also various Kestrels and Discoverers originally captured from SCA) failed to respond. The Carrier's (Nomad in this case) own guns took out the attackers. I will try to test this scenario further and provide a save, though the save / reload process tends to alter the results at times.

No worries re: the timescale of your prior fix :)

Scoob.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 17:13
by j.harshaw
Scoob wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 17:10
Yes, none of them responded.
I would very much appreciate a save and repro for this if you could iron one out. Will also take a look, but these things can be very tricky to diagnose.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 18:14
by Tamina
j.harshaw wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 13:23
...
Very much appreciated, thank you. You have no idea how many situations got explained just like that.

Especially a situation where my interceptors and defenders would start attacking a 40km away Xenon station from the center of their carriers 20km protection radius due to the operational range. And I guess the defence squads just reacted to the intercepters being attacked by that station. That makes sense now.

So my interceptors' interceptors' interceptors would have a practical range of all their radar ranges added. :D

It all makes sense now.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 19:19
by mr.WHO
j.harshaw wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 13:23
Intercept - Ships will attack any hostile non-capital ships that come into their operational range*.
What is consider non-capital ship? S-size and M-size?

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 19:33
by j.harshaw
yup. S and M ships.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 19:36
by chew-ie
mr.WHO wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 19:19
j.harshaw wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 13:23
Intercept - Ships will attack any hostile non-capital ships that come into their operational range*.
What is consider non-capital ship? S-size and M-size?
Thats awesome - at least for me. Capital ships shouldn't be engaged without proper orders :)

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 20:37
by Scoob
j.harshaw wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 17:13
Scoob wrote:
Mon, 27. Jan 20, 17:10
Yes, none of them responded.
I would very much appreciate a save and repro for this if you could iron one out. Will also take a look, but these things can be very tricky to diagnose.
I will of course attempt to re-create this for you, however, I did end up disbanding the fleet in the end. I will re-form it, but that might not perfectly re-create the scenario I experienced of course.

Scoob.

Re: [3.0 Beta 5] Carrier Fighters launching query - Launching fix in a future build.

Posted: Mon, 27. Jan 20, 22:05
by Arkblade
On a different note, groups docked with this feature won't use catapult on launch.
Basically, I think all Docked ships in this feature should be go to Internal Storage.
and It's also pretty visually, and improves the visibility and UI of ships like Cerberus.