[4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by Geek » Thu, 17. Jun 21, 16:24

It would not be reported if it were that low ; more like 5-6 km.
Right on commander !

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by michi_oss » Thu, 17. Jun 21, 16:47

Raptor34 wrote:
Thu, 17. Jun 21, 15:14
What's the range of this anyway? I've assumed its like 1km max?
As reported some post above yours, one example:
At facebook someone wrote he attacked a Xenon station with a Syn. He was in 6,5 km distance and the explosion ripped the shields away (338.000 MJ), 10% from hull and all weapons.
So, even > 6 km the damage is very huge.
Die Kraft einer Kerze ist die Flamme, aber sie brennt nur so lange wie der Docht.

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by Raptor34 » Thu, 17. Jun 21, 16:56

Okay, that is pretty bad.
I thought it was just AI flying in close or chain explosions rather than detonating a WMD in space.

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by Tamina » Thu, 17. Jun 21, 19:59

I like the EMP idea but there should be at least an inverse square damage falloff.

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by NiAypa » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 00:03

I like the damage idea. However, in terms of balance it should just be much much lower.
Imagine your spaceship. It has advanced shield technology protecting it from high energy lasers and direct missile strikes and such. It can take a couple of those.
Sure, an exploding captial ship/station module is very dangerous. It might even kill the ship, but only if it is very very close. If it is a little further, the shields should be (almost) enough to take the hit. I mean if they can take those other things as well...

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by strask412 » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 05:48

I waited until I had observed several fleet-on-fleet actions in high attention before weighing in on this, and all I have to say are:

1) I LOVE this mechanic. Including the potential for chain reactions if several ships are close to death.
2) It absolutely needs to be scaled down in magnitude, as anti-spectacular as that might be. A healthy capital ship should not be crippled or destroyed at such great ranges by these events.

Thanks for making more new things, egosoft. Keep up the good work.
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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by maverikstation » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 08:49

Hello,

I just would like to tell my short story about this new feature.
In 4.00, I put in defense position fleets on strategic positions to defend from incoming Xenons. From today, I just have to order properly to concentrate attacks on Class K and IA works properly.
Today, on 4.10 beta, I did the same and 2 Xenon Class K blow up about 6 of my destroyers when they exploded.
Like some said, the maine purpose here is that IA don't move out. They came close instead of go away.

An another example, A Terran Capital with a destroyer was attacking by 3 Xenon Class K. When the Capital ship blowed up, Xenons took no damage.
I came with a fleet and I destroyed a Xenon with the help of the remaining terran destroyer. This time the xenon's explosion hit others Xenons. A chain.

So, I'm agree that this featur need some balance :)

But the idea is great .. but hard :D

Take care ! Have a nice day
_Waric

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by S!rAssassin » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 10:34

- S/M-ships should nearly loose their shields. May be got some hull damage, if shield not full.
- L/XL-ships should got some main shield damage and massive hull damage if shield are down, surface elements should take more damage then close to explosion.

EMP effect isn`t playable. Push effect is more than dumb.

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by strask412 » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 11:09

S!rAssassin wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 10:34
Push effect is more than dumb.
Could you say more about what you dislike about a push effect? It seemed like a fun idea to me, and the warp anomolies already apply some interesting movement effects on ships so something similar attached to an explosion seems feasible. And it's less game ruining than the current amount of damage, but more fun than simply "less damage".
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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by S!rAssassin » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 12:16

strask412 wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 11:09
Could you say more about what you dislike about a push effect? It seemed like a fun idea to me
More fun, maybe, but less realistic! And calculating collision of many pushed objects will decrease game performance.

Ideal variant - creating many objects with variable mass and energy, scattering from center of explosion, and calculate collisions with ships and stations in whole zone. But it`s possible without NASA`s computer.

And stations also should take damage from explosions of their parts! This is BOOOOOM!!! or not? :)

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 12:57

Personally I think the damage to subsystems (turrets, group shields, engines) is also too high. The moment a L/XL ship gets hit by an explosion it essentially loses everything, which is kind of silly sine you'd end up with several enemy capital ships staring each other down because they can't do anything. If the damage was mainly shields only and very little hull damage then subsystems would also survive more easily and ships would be able to continue fighting.
S!rAssassin wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 12:16
strask412 wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 11:09
Could you say more about what you dislike about a push effect? It seemed like a fun idea to me
More fun, maybe, but less realistic! And calculating collision of many pushed objects will decrease game performance.
Whether the ships are being pushed around by an explosion or flying on their own, in both cases their velocity and collision needs to be updated each frame, so there should be zero to barely any difference in performane.

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by S!rAssassin » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 13:16

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Fri, 18. Jun 21, 12:57
Personally I think the damage to subsystems (turrets, group shields, engines) is also too high.
Simply, damaged subsystems should decrease their efficient exponentially and quickly repairing with crew. Now in game subsystem has on and off states, only weaponry has middle state - orange. And we see disabled L/LX very often. Disabled, but still practically unvulnerable to attackers. Stupid situations...

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by Splendar » Fri, 18. Jun 21, 17:29

agree, the explosion seem too powerful that all my fighters (120 fighters) died in less than 1 minutes......

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by nichy » Thu, 24. Jun 21, 15:32

The range is currently 6.5km on the periphery which does a substantial amount of damage to an L ship, an M with decent shields/hull can barely survive and an S has no chance at all. The closer you are to the station though, the damage substantially increases. I left an Asgard fighting a Xenon shipyard OOS, the Captain closed to within 3km and the resulting module explosions were enough to take the Asgard out.

The issue I've found is destroyers/battleships tend to be less reliant on their main batteries and close to the minimum range of their closest weapons, so if you have say, a Syn armed with Plasma/Flak, even if the Flak's not set to engage all enemies, it'll close to Flak range and get taken out in the explosion.

For me, the solution's a two-three pronged approach:

1. The damage needs to come down
2. The Fleet AI needs to learn to prioritise use of their main batteries and closing to the maximum range of any turret set to engage enemies of that type.
3. -- slightly more controversial, but given VRO does this and is insanely popular -- range of L/XL weapons and turrets needs a 30-50% range increase

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Re: [4.1 b1] (Massive deaths from Capital/Module final explosions.)

Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Thu, 24. Jun 21, 17:45

The damage range is just to large, it should be twice the size of the ship for killing L and 3-4 the size for reduced damage.
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