[4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

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capitalduty
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[4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by capitalduty » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 17:32

Dangerous zone on "the void" sector is just killing all ships around....please adjust damage...even capital ships are dying fast.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by michi_oss » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 20:01

I think the dangerous zones should only damage shield and not hull.

Or the pilots and autopilot must be intelligent enough to fly reliable around the zone. According to the changelog there were changes, but seems that they are still too stupid.
Die Kraft einer Kerze ist die Flamme, aber sie brennt nur so lange wie der Docht.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by Buzz2005 » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 20:13

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6xw53ujm9mm2 ... ml.gz?dl=0

if you look at the Computronic Subtrate station ZRC-663 there is a Baldric there just waiting to die, the station is in the zone
Fixed credits not being able to claim abandoned ships sometimes getting stuck when boarding operation sometimes getting some owner other than the player builds a station module or surface element.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by nemo1887 » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:10

4.0 hotfix 3==
<damagefield>
<damage noshield="10" shield="50" />
<effects hull="dmgfx_cockpit_radiation_01" shield="dmgfx_cockpit_shielddamage_01" mindelay="1.5" maxdelay="2.5" />
</damagefield>


4.10 beta 1hotfix=
<damagefield>
<damage noshield="100" shield="500" />
<effects hull="dmgfx_cockpit_radiation_01" shield="dmgfx_cockpit_shielddamage_01" mindelay="1.5" maxdelay="2.5" />
</damagefield>

result damage+++++

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by aversin » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:30

As someone who builds A LOT and creates giant piles of industry, this change basically kills half of my economical base within an hour of loading up.

I have dozens of stations and at least 1500 ships operating in The Void and the surrounding sectors which sooner or later have to travel through there.
I was swarmed with messages of destroyed ships two minutes after loading into the beta, the mining ships who were currently busy there, all gone. Over the next hour i would lose many more mining ships and transports failing to evade the radiation zones. Many of the miners probably wanted to mine within the danger zones and got toasted instead. Total ship losses were at least 500 with more and more constantly trickling in. Safe to say that the radiation avoidance is not quite working.

The Void is such a weird sector anyway. So many juicy and critical resources for this area of the network, but you basically can not touch them. Maybe L miners could grab those resources, but their drones would be destroyed within moments and thus renders them unable to mine. If there is no proper solution to this problem, i expect this sector and Antigone to turn very not-alive pretty quickly.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by Tamina » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:41

@aversin Drones don't start OOS. So L miners can mine just fine there. Put The Void on your activity blacklist to make them mine in Getsu Fune, Second Contact and Antigone Memorial which have plenty of ressources.


This bug here seems to be another one though. I saw L ships losing hull in certain parts of The Void, while other ships were just fine in similar locations. It seems there might be a miscalculation or maybe overlapping regions that cause even the largest ship to die from hazardous regions(?)

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by aversin » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:51

Hmmm but my juicy resources. And replacing so many ships will take hours xD
+ i found L ships horribly slow and mining compared to S ships. Still, it is the only major source of methane in that area that is not in terran space and i would have to relocate so much industry to the point of having a pile of ghost-stations floating around. Without a quick button to deconstruct all modules, it would be somewhat tedious to remove them all.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by michi_oss » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 22:01

Is this additional 0 for both damage types intended or a mistake?
According to the changelog the hazardous areas shall work now also OOS, no hint about increasing the damage by factor 10.
Die Kraft einer Kerze ist die Flamme, aber sie brennt nur so lange wie der Docht.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by aversin » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 22:53

Just checked the files with a friend and yeah, it checks out. I will test this in person tomorrow, but if the damage is increased really that much, it means that the belt now deals 2400 - 4000 hull damage per second and 12000 - 20000 shield damage per second.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by Imperial Good » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 00:26

I assume people are referring to 4.10 b1 and not 4.00 b1 like the topic title says. (typo?)

Even since 4.00 it has been the developers intention that you should not be mining in The Void. Many people violated this automatic implicit mining blacklisting of The Void because they wanted that juicy silicon or gas yield, and they can expect to have to give up on that idea. The Void is not a place to mine, it has yield but you cannot mine there due to most of it being inside hazards. Your auto miners will (should... they did back in 4.00) actively avoid mining in The Void unless you give them no choice but to.

If your miners and traders are transiting through The Void and getting killed by the hazards in low attention then that is a serious bug as their is meant to be avoidance logic. Ideally provide an unmodified save file showing this happen, with ships that have had their orders issued after loading with 4.10 to rule out it being a case of retaining 4.00 flight paths immediately after migrating.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by Buzz2005 » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 00:50

what about npc ships that just keep dying around stations built in the zone? I posted a save here

my ships do avoid hazard zone, they kind of over do it but they do
Fixed credits not being able to claim abandoned ships sometimes getting stuck when boarding operation sometimes getting some owner other than the player builds a station module or surface element.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by aversin » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 07:21

I finished a second set of tests with the new info i got from here.
And yes, judging from when this topic was created it appears to be a typo in the title.

After blacklisting sector activities the numbers of destroyed ships quickly got down to zero, so the avoidance in fact works perfectly fine.
May i still ask for seperate buttons to either prevent mining or trading? Not always both at the same time?
Also maybe a check for the NPC Factions to not build factories in the middle of the dangerzone?

The new damage values that have been posted seem to be used for OOS / Low attention damage. My previous assumption of how it worked as incorrect. High attention damage is unchanged and low attention damage is 500 shields per second and 100 hull per second. In theory, L Magnetar and L Crane can still mine there if they are equipped with at least 2x ARG/TEL/PAR L-Shields Mk2 as that provides enough regen to defeat the incoming damage. Hokkaido, Wyvern and Chtonios can withstand only for a limited time because of them having only a single shield slot.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by Raptor34 » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 08:05

Imperial Good wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 00:26
I assume people are referring to 4.10 b1 and not 4.00 b1 like the topic title says. (typo?)

Even since 4.00 it has been the developers intention that you should not be mining in The Void. Many people violated this automatic implicit mining blacklisting of The Void because they wanted that juicy silicon or gas yield, and they can expect to have to give up on that idea. The Void is not a place to mine, it has yield but you cannot mine there due to most of it being inside hazards. Your auto miners will (should... they did back in 4.00) actively avoid mining in The Void unless you give them no choice but to.

If your miners and traders are transiting through The Void and getting killed by the hazards in low attention then that is a serious bug as their is meant to be avoidance logic. Ideally provide an unmodified save file showing this happen, with ships that have had their orders issued after loading with 4.10 to rule out it being a case of retaining 4.00 flight paths immediately after migrating.
Firstly, it makes sense logically. Why is The Void so rich in resources despite being more or less a core sector? Because no one can mine the damned thing.
Otoh you are dangling 10-20 yield silicon when its in high demand in front of players.

I have 2 suggestions, not sure if they are already in.
1) Add into the description something like "The Void is littered with the wrecks and corpses of miners trying to mind the motherlode." Or something like that, while also adding in the wrecks of L and M miners like in Tharka's Cascade.
2) Also add in this "The hardiest miners are still braving the hazards to bring in resources." What this means is that it should be tuned so that 3 L shield miners, with a minimum of the best PAR or TER shields should still be able to outregen the hazard and be able to mine in it.

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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by grapedog » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 08:47

Imperial Good wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 00:26


Even since 4.00 it has been the developers intention that you should not be mining in The Void.
I understand the point... but the question remains. Why? Why make a sector unusable, but then fill it with resources? It can't be totally unusable ever... because that's just dumb and a waste of developer time. If it can be used in certain ways, that is fine... but there is no reason to have a sector that can't be used somehow. It just makes no sense. If the trick is we have to find out how to use it... ok, i'm down with that. But just murdering every ship... that's poorly designed.
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Re: [4.0 b1] (THE VOID....BLACKHOLE OF DEATH)

Post by Raptor34 » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 08:51

Oh yeah, I nearly forgot.
What happens to the TER invasion of ANT space with this change?

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