Turn down xenon for new players?

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KAtari
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Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by KAtari » Mon, 10. Jan 22, 05:30

I'm fairly new to X, trying to figure things out. I've barely finished the PHQ quest and I just spent the entire night using every ship and credit I have clearing out the Xenon from Fires of Defeat. 4 k's, 1 I, and so many fighters I can't see straight. I basically blew all my money on rattlesnake. I can take K's, but have to cheese the I's and the stations. They're rampaging through split territory with no resistance. I tried building a defense platform but the infrastructure is just gone. It'll take too long to run parts in from across the map and with another wave of K's and I's, I just can't keep up. By the time I cleared the K's - no joke - they built 3 defense platforms. 3. When I destroyed 1, they already started building another one. It's just non-stop.

I'd like to play the questline, actually build a station of my own, maybe pirate a ship, but I feel like I can't play the game because I'm too busy playing the game (fighting xenon).

Is there a setting to turn these monster toasters down a notch so I can figure out what I'm doing?

jlehtone
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 10. Jan 22, 10:36

KAtari wrote:
Mon, 10. Jan 22, 05:30
Is there a setting to turn these monster toasters down a notch so I can figure out what I'm doing?
No, there is not.

Many players have expressed a wish to have something like that (to turn up several notches), because they feel that they don't have enough Xenon to kill. :twisted:


The word is economy simulation. Xenon can build and rebuild, because they have resources. Given enough attrition, they will run out of resources and then they can't rebuild any more and do die out more or less entirely. With Xenon gone, the other factions will suffer less attrition, which means decreased demand for production and diminished profits from trade.

There is a limit on how many ships a faction has. When you kill a K, Xenon will build a replacement (if they have resources). However, they might build it in a different Shipyard than the one that is close to Fires of Defeat. Therefore, you probably can get some pressure off from Fires of Defeat by your diligence.


The guns of Rattlesnake have slightly longer range than Xenon turrets. You can thus snipe their bad turrets safely. The problem with I is that it moves, so hitting from distance is harder. You could shoot its engines. Alas, they are not on edge, so you will be in range of I's tail turrets for a while. The first I-kill was awesome. 8) (I did kill K's with Dragon Raider at first ... just to "test different guns" ...)
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Starlight_Corporation
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by Starlight_Corporation » Mon, 10. Jan 22, 12:28

Had something like that recently & while it is tense & time consuming, the Xenon will die down. Do pick up the loot they drop (press O), it makes for quite the bonus income, especially with a Black Market dealer around. Note that if you are not piloting your ship, you safely pass all police scans, even if you got illegal wares in your inventory.
Researching teleportation helps alot in dealing with the Xenon in a rapid matter once you got multiple ships ( use a fast scout ship with captain to get you around when you don't have the long ranger ones).

I've spent quite some time fighting Xenon in Wretched Skies before it died down. It helps boosting the relevant economies, so they can fight back easier ( set some autotraders & miners in the relevant faction space to help them).
Note that you don't need all your pilots to be 3 stars. Use the 3-star pilot to set the auto-trade /advanced mining & then replace the 3-star captain with a two star one (reduces jump range by one, but still fine imo)

And as the poster above hints, the economy in X4 is war-driven. the more activity in combat & ship losses, the stronger the economy is. hence distributing trading ships & mining ships can be crucial in helping the economy.
Also, a faction losing a sector, or multiple sector isn't too bad, gives the player a long term goal to strive for, liberate sectors or rebuilt them.
Do keep an eye out for Xenon stations under construction in faction sectors, as long as they're still being built, they can be easily taken out OOS, even by corvettes (Xenon Defense Platforms must miss the shield icon tho, moment shield icon is up, it will be tough, as it means the guns are online)
A ship with long range Large Plasma guns can be a good early way to remove Xenon Defense Platforms stations safely in sector, albeit it can take a while. Xenon defense stations who are way off the grid, or very high up or down a plane are not a real threat for the sector & you can delay dealing with them & just leave them around till you got the time to remove them.

Wanted to go for a quiet start myself, but got denied the same way. Xenon did start quietly the first week, with almost no activity for my game, but then all hell broke loose with attacks on about every front. It is different for everyone tho, every game is different, but one constant remains; always prepare yourself for Xenon aggression, it will come & the longer it takes, the harder they will hit.

On ships, the Rattlesnake is great to deal with the Xenon in player hands, got one myself & it is great. However, when multiple Xenon K's are involved or a Xenon I, the Osaka (Terran destroyer) is also a nice one, as it has long range main batteries & equipping the L turrets with plasma & the M turrets with flak give you a versatile ship that can handle alot.

BitByte
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by BitByte » Mon, 10. Jan 22, 19:47

If you don't have big fleet to fight against Xenon in your area you can try be sneaky and strike to their base operation - use faster small / medium size fighter with good firepower and destroy all S-ships from Xenon sectors nearby - when you attack against those and take them out at some point Xenon runs out of resources.
Then you can more easily destroy big ones and fighter fleet (N/M/P) without scare new ones would come there (maybe some Ts appear if Xenon have resources to build them/comes from outer space).

As I'm player who started X4 vanilla I had only 3 sector groups where Xenon ruled. So before I went to Split DLC I managed corner them to 1 area in base galaxy, secure way out and get large fleet to protect new sectors what Split opened.
I still haven't started Cradle DLC so plenty of sectors still missing from the game but at this point I want to concentrate do construction, trading, train my marines and enjoy from sectors beauties (incl music).

Insects
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by Insects » Tue, 11. Jan 22, 05:22

Having your own mining fleet injecting resources into the economy and moving around wares like Claytronics will do more for the AI defending themselves than fighting for them.

The AI logic is terrible at distributing wares, stations will sit half built for hours while the wares they need are overflowing in a factory next door. It needs you and your different trader logic to come along and fill gaps. Then their completed stations and ships beatup Xenon intruders.

With the Split they are going to get hit pretty hard and suicide most of their miners and traders through Xenon sectors, but they do have a lot of sectors which get cutoff from each other so you might be able to leave them to their own fight while you build a trade/factory Empire and one area will survive.

If you get some L traders then you can make over a million per run queuing up buy low sell high Claytronics orders with their station reconstructions. Which is a mutual benefit.

Nagittchi
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by Nagittchi » Tue, 11. Jan 22, 06:32

While I disagree Xenon should be toned down, I'm disappointed about the AI's lack of survival. It's as if the universe would not continue own unless you, the player, saves them by building your factories. There's no point in sabotage or destroying faction factories because there's really no need to.

Each game start is full of L+ ships duking it out. 3 game days in I hardly see any faction capital ships because they can't keep up with their losses. Eventually that leads to the Xenon taking over sectors slowly.

dougeye
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by dougeye » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 07:52

Problem is if the ai was completely self sufficient at all times it would remove opportunity for the player and your factories etc would take a hell of a lot longer to pay for themselves. I prefer the fact the player can if they work at it have a direct influence.

Just the past couple of nights I have been retaking all the zya sectors in North West of map. Xenon had everything from open market west apart from one section of zyarths dominion.

Granted I did not start as a split or focus my initial game efforts in that part of the map but if almost cleared every xenon sector now in that area going east to west.

Think of it this way you go off into the community of planets and build your empire up until you can produce your own fleets and then come back tk retake your territory for the glory of split!

If you want it to be easy mods oos when clearing you'll need 5 asgard, 2 Tokyo carriers full of gladius heavy fighters, along with a fleet of destroyers to protect the Tokyo. I also have a squadron of 200 gladius I call "the suicide squad" which I use as kamikaze to intercept any approaching xenon fleets. I use yhe carrier groups to blockade gates from incoming xenon military and build ships. And the 5 asgard work their way through each xenon sector in turn.

Bear I mind I have built my trade empire first and I build all these ships myself. I would say your looking at 2 - 3 billion credits overall over time for all the infrastructure and blueprints etc.

The take away here is it is possible to make a difference even after the xenon have rampage.

Oh and early game seta is essential! Lol I started a custom budgeted game and basically gave myself a miner ship and seta components in my inventory.

Next start I will benefit from the jncreased budgets based on this save.
I used to list PC parts here, but "the best" will suffice!

af_2017
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by af_2017 » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 14:20

KAtari wrote:
Mon, 10. Jan 22, 05:30
Is there a setting to turn these monster toasters down a notch so I can figure out what I'm doing?
The best you can do is leave the area.
Right, split will lose the area but since the game has story related to split they wont be vanished entirely.
dougeye wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 07:52
retake your territory for the glory of split!
These sectors belong to teladi in my game.
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.

dougeye
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by dougeye » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 14:26

af_2017 wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 14:20
KAtari wrote:
Mon, 10. Jan 22, 05:30
Is there a setting to turn these monster toasters down a notch so I can figure out what I'm doing?
The best you can do is leave the area.
Right, split will lose the area but since the game has story related to split they wont be vanished entirely.
dougeye wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 07:52
retake your territory for the glory of split!
These sectors belong to teladi in my game.

Yes as they are repopulated it seems the teladi are taking advantage the most. But this also makes sense based on their culture and ethos.
I used to list PC parts here, but "the best" will suffice!

jlehtone
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 16:16

af_2017 wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 14:20
dougeye wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 07:52
retake your territory for the glory of split!
These sectors belong to teladi in my game.
I did start with game version 3.10. Split DLC included. Yes, the XEN and ARG were harsh to ZYA.
XEN eventually took Kritt, Zhin, Valka, Zyarth I, Nhuut, Open Market (although pair of FAF Rattlers probably mauled the Teladi Trade Station), and had K-raids to Zyarth IV, harassing ZYA Shipyard. ARG eventually demolished ZYA Trade Station from Zyarth X.

Was I desperate? No. I saw perfect opportunity to field test various weapon systems as I was still new to the game.
Then I started boarding. First a FAF Rattlesnake, and then SCA destroyers here and there.
Once there are enough skill and ordnance, I started demolishing Xenon stations one by one, sector by sector.
Since I did start from Open Market, Teladi made a claim there. In fact, every sector I did clear, they did occupy.
By the time Teladi got Zyarth I, there seemed to be enough buffer for ZYA to survive.

The Teladi did actually take Valka, Kritt, Rhy, and Tharka XV from Xenon without any assistance (except perhaps the disappearance of Xenon SY from #598).

Lots of background for the actual point:

Teladi had Zyarth I. ZYA started to rebuild. They got stations into Zyarth I. Whether they did add a Defense Platform on their own ... I can't remember. I probably did a "Build a Factory" mission for them and did add Admin module to the plan. So now ZYA did contest Zyarth I.

What did follow was a "most unfortunate" serie of main battery malfuctions of my Rattlesnake when it was over every Teladi Admin module. Poor Teladi did not even have turrets ready. All the rebuild of ZYA had diverted the turret/shield materials to ZYA stations; practically none had reached Teladi in Zyarth I ...

"Just" two/three station modules, no other casualties, and I was already a very good trade partner to Teladi, so everybody remained happy, and ZYA got ownership of Zyarth I back.

Not for Glory, strictly business.
Goner Pancake Protector X
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dtpsprt
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by dtpsprt » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 19:20

You actually (and any new player) shouldn't bother with the Xenon early in the game. Sit back and let the Terran Intervention Force work for you...
Alternative 1: Try to supply any faction you want with resources, they'll build up their fleet and defences and take care of themselves.
Alternative 2: Hit their supply ships instead of their worships. This will make them run out of resources soon enough and they will not be able to cover up their losses. The same goes with blowing up the build storages of their stations before they are build. They'll try to replenish them, staving them out of resources. Attrition will do the rest.
Alternative 3: Start a new game. Fleet and Station positions are created by a random seed in every new game.

Nanook
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by Nanook » Sat, 22. Jan 22, 21:01

dtpsprt wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 19:20
You actually (and any new player) shouldn't bother with the Xenon early in the game. Sit back and let the Terran Intervention Force work for you...
It sounds like the OP is playing one of the Split starts, and early in the game the TIF is on the far side of the universe. Don't think they'll help much. My suggestion to the OP would be your option 3, and maybe a non-Split start, as well.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Diroc
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by Diroc » Fri, 4. Mar 22, 04:02

Get yourself a fast ship like a Dragon Raider or Terran Katana. Hunt down their Xenon S resource ships.
If you clean them out on a regular basis, Xenon infrastructure grinds to a snail's pace.

If the Xenon are building a station, Rather than trying to destroy it, clean out it's resource crates in build storage.
Park Destroyers near build storage to kill approaching Xenon S resource ships.
Xenon will kneecap themselves by sending resource ship after resource ship full of resources that are not being used to effectively produce ships or stations.
Rather than spending a fortune for capital ships, You can board them.

The problem is not with the Xenon.
I mean no disrespect to new players when I say that the problem lies with them in that they do not understand X4.
There really isn't a good game comparison to X4 so it's really a frequent misconception.
The preconception that X4 is just a space sim with some storylines and the Xenon are the "Boss Fight" is wrong.
In any other space game, that is a common theme with a universal enemy.
A better analogy is the "Apex Predator" in an ecosystem.
You, or any other faction shouldn't be able to easily "Brute Force" them.
In order for them to do their job they need to be this way.
X4 has a living, breathing economy with multiple races and factions.
For the most part: Resources in, Ships and stations out. (eventually)

The motto Think Fight Trade Build is very appropriate.
Once you find creative ways that work for you to appropriately deal with Xenon, their threat rating drops off significantly.

burger1
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by burger1 » Thu, 10. Mar 22, 01:34

Like others have said you can effectively destroy the xenon with one m ship. Can create mk2 laser tower clusters to wipe out the small ships. Use advanced satellite grids to to see enemy movements. Destroy all their mining ships. You can destroy the energy transfer ships also. Monitor the zones. Then pick off the k and I ships with the destroyer. The factions will have to take a hit while you do this.

darkstar12
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by darkstar12 » Thu, 10. Mar 22, 19:58

I let ZYA nearly collapse then spent over 100 hours making sure they could retake sectors. Simply by manipulating the argon and teladi and the Xenon into as far as I could only attacking their stuff if I could help it.
And so it Begins.

nemo1887
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by nemo1887 » Mon, 14. Mar 22, 07:59

We’re not going to settle the xenon, if you’re afraid to play you resell the computer. I started at the beginning and the xenon was much harder to fight. now in 5.00 the xenon and dead. xenon is part of the game I try to keep it , they have a sector but no more activity?. I think has new code that blocks them.

ChrisF0001
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by ChrisF0001 » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 10:50

I had the Xenon basically under control before 5.0, now they're a nightmare again, so *something* appears to have changed - although it's possible it's just part of the ebb and flow of war. Several times this week I've had to drop everything plot related and go save some sector somewhere from a squadron of K's...

Starlight_Corporation
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Re: Turn down xenon for new players?

Post by Starlight_Corporation » Fri, 18. Mar 22, 16:59

ChrisF0001 wrote:
Fri, 18. Mar 22, 10:50
I had the Xenon basically under control before 5.0, now they're a nightmare again, so *something* appears to have changed - although it's possible it's just part of the ebb and flow of war. Several times this week I've had to drop everything plot related and go save some sector somewhere from a squadron of K's...
This is my current situation as well. The Xenon seem to have acquired a large cache of Xenon I's in my game that they happily sent into battle over & over again; Killing one just makes another Xenon I fleet appear somewhere else. No rest for the damned.
Can't ignore them either, as I did it once for a fleet, because I really wanted to see & explore the new ToA sectors & it ended up with a Xenon I & 2 K's rampaging on the Highway Circle line. That 's a nightmare.

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