Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

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Sehnsucht1985
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Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Sehnsucht1985 » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16

So, I've finally completed everything, I believe, except the BUC's plot - more on that later - and terraforming.

Did the Terran plot first, and kinda liked how it played out (edit: and this one actually did give great rewards for a new player!). And it didn't take a massive economy either to finish it iirc. HAT plot was kinda boring. Paranid plot - hated all the EVA'ing. Ended up blowing up their ****** station, and then manually erased HOP from the map (almost 100 stations destroyed...) and built massive Defence platforms at each of their gates. I shall never see their like again.

Split plot was better - at least it opened up a new sector, which I promptly stole from them the minute I could. At this point I was getting increasingly irritated at the resource reqs for the plots. I also did the Xenon quest where you basically cleanse 4 or 5 sectors of them. Not even a thank you from the Yaki, nor Dal Busta.. It cost me about 10 Asgards and maybe 15 destroyers - no way was I going to manually destroy all those stations.
So, after putting off the Dukes Haven shipyard build for a few days, I grinded my teeth and built it today, thinking I would finally nail it down and perhaps with it, finish my savegame.

But no. Now they want a gajillion different resources, as well as a billion credits (what on earth for??), and apparently won't do jack with their shipyard until they get it. I already single handedly built and paid for a big shipyard, with no rewards, and now I am 100% sure I will get nothing tangible for completing these new steps either. I won't even bother to check - I know the answer. Some extra rep, a paintjob, or faction relations changes.

Most of these plots have felt like a job so far. This BUC plot has been the worst, and it has long since passed the border of what I consider fun. In X3 there were actual rewards for completing plots, like unique ships, the UFJD I believe, and others. Why is there nothing like that here? Best I've gotten is a number of paintjobs, and not even an infinite amount of them! I love the game, but the lack of plot rewards REALLY grinds my gears.
I understand that granting credits or other resources is potentially useless - but unique ships, weapons, sectors and the like - is always welcome. Hopefully the next X game will be different, I guess.

End of rant.
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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Old Drullo321 » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:59

I understand your point of view, and honestly I was in the same boat at first. While X4 is a different game then X3, also the plot rewards are different and may not be visible at first. Besides the PIO plot which rewards you with additionall terraforming projects, helping you to complete those missions, the rewards are more subtle.

It helps you to complete and achieve your own long-term goals in an easier way. For example if your goal is to erase HOP/PAR from existence, then the Duke's are a good choice because it would be easier to erase the whole faction with a thorn in their side. Yaki plot let Yaki make some friends. If you ever let your shipyards build something for the Yaki, they are a fearsome force, really cuasing chaos arround them. You could build a shipyard in the sector beside Getsu Fune and build ships for the Yaki, letting them attack the Terrans.

And you could see similar pattern in the results of the other plots. In my opinion I didn't dislike the "rewards" but they reveal other flaws of X4. For example if you complete such a plot, you get 10 pieces of a unique paint mod. Because there is no way to reaquire them, they will rot in the players inventory rather then ever used. A design flaw i pointed out in another thread. Same with the idea of having more options to make money with more war. At that point you finish those plots, everything else but credits are your main problem: build time of stations, pilot levels, shipping things arround. But not money. The same issue for basically every terraforming projects aside Memory of Profits.

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Imperial Good » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 08:24

Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
HAT plot was kinda boring.
It is more a tutorial plot to accompany the HQ plotline. It gives you some money and a free trader very early on. It also introduces you to Dal Busta who is used in most storylines.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
Paranid plot - hated all the EVA'ing.
EVA'ing?
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
Split plot was better - at least it opened up a new sector, which I promptly stole from them the minute I could.
The sector is unowned anyway.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
At this point I was getting increasingly irritated at the resource reqs for the plots.
The storylines do not require that many resources. Once you have ship building going (late game) you are pretty much good to go.

If you want to see real costs, do terraforming missions. Stages can cost hundreds of millions in raw materials alone. However even these have some kind of reward.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
I also did the Xenon quest where you basically cleanse 4 or 5 sectors of them. Not even a thank you from the Yaki, nor Dal Busta..
Sounds like it bugged out? They are meant to thank you and then become their own faction to some extent.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
It cost me about 10 Asgards and maybe 15 destroyers - no way was I going to manually destroy all those stations.
7 Syns would probably have been enough. Xenon stations die pretty easily if you park them facing them.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
But no. Now they want a gajillion different resources, as well as a billion credits (what on earth for??), and apparently won't do jack with their shipyard until they get it. I already single handedly built and paid for a big shipyard, with no rewards, and now I am 100% sure I will get nothing tangible for completing these new steps either. I won't even bother to check - I know the answer. Some extra rep, a paintjob, or faction relations changes.
They also should start building ships. Which means they will either buy ships from you, or buy resources from you to build the ships themselves. Those ships will then kill HOP and PAR ships (if you did not destroy them...) and then be killed. HOP and and PAR will then order new ships meaning they will either buy ships from you, or buy resources from you to build the ships themselves. TEM will also pirate other faction's stations and traders allowing you more impact in supply chains in general. Result is the billions it cost are potentially paid back in a few hours or less.

This logic applies to Paranid unification as well. You can make them go to war with the Teladi, Argons or Terrans and then profit off both sides of the conflict. Ideally you want degenerate situations where both sides order ships from your ship building facilities to immediately kill each other upon undocking, so they quickly order more.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
Why is there nothing like that here?
There kind of is. The rewards just are not immediately tangible. The wars and economic opportunities created can quickly pay for the cost of the storyline.

In theory you do gain unique ships as rewards. Unless you side with the Yaki you cannot get the blueprints to build the Yaki ships leaving you without their Nemesis variant and with only 2 potential copies of their Pegasus variant.

Ships and weapons are a lot more difficult to create than in X3. Egosoft likely does not have the resources to create a beautifully designed ship that you can only obtain 1 of. Even if they did, people would come pestering on the forums asking to be able to obtain more of it.
Old Drullo321 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:59
For example if your goal is to erase HOP/PAR from existence, then the Duke's are a good choice because it would be easier to erase the whole faction with a thorn in their side.
Or you could unify them into Paranid and then get them to go to war with everyone.
Old Drullo321 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:59
Same with the idea of having more options to make money with more war. At that point you finish those plots, everything else but credits are your main problem: build time of stations, pilot levels, shipping things arround. But not money.
Actually money still is your problem as you need to make a lot of it to get Xtreme trade rank, which is tied to an achievement.

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Sehnsucht1985 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 10:37

Old Drullo321 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:59
I understand your point of view, and honestly I was in the same boat at first. While X4 is a different game then X3, also the plot rewards are different and may not be visible at first. Besides the PIO plot which rewards you with additionall terraforming projects, helping you to complete those missions, the rewards are more subtle.

It helps you to complete and achieve your own long-term goals in an easier way. For example if your goal is to erase HOP/PAR from existence, then the Duke's are a good choice because it would be easier to erase the whole faction with a thorn in their side. Yaki plot let Yaki make some friends. If you ever let your shipyards build something for the Yaki, they are a fearsome force, really cuasing chaos arround them. You could build a shipyard in the sector beside Getsu Fune and build ships for the Yaki, letting them attack the Terrans.

And you could see similar pattern in the results of the other plots. In my opinion I didn't dislike the "rewards" but they reveal other flaws of X4. For example if you complete such a plot, you get 10 pieces of a unique paint mod. Because there is no way to reaquire them, they will rot in the players inventory rather then ever used. A design flaw i pointed out in another thread. Same with the idea of having more options to make money with more war. At that point you finish those plots, everything else but credits are your main problem: build time of stations, pilot levels, shipping things arround. But not money. The same issue for basically every terraforming projects aside Memory of Profits.
I understand what the so called rewards are supposed to be, I just don't consider them rewards. It would be fine if there was some actual rewards along with the faction rearrangement. In my opinion, it's lazy on the devs part, and an insult to the players and all the time they put in.

Let me tell you, it was far easier to manually erase HOP (which I have done - they are completely gone), than to finish that Dukes storyline. And I did let Yaki buy severely underpriced ships from me (little did I know that they had nerfed ship sales - had never even tried it before) for a while, but all they did was build fighters and corvettes, which were melted in seconds for the most part.

And yes, the paints should be unlimited use. And how about maybe giving out a bunch of seminars for pilot skill / management skill? Or exceptional mods? These are things that already exist in the game, are hard to get, and would take them 30 seconds to program in as rewards. After over 20 game days, I STILL don't have a single miner with 5 stars (I think the highest is maybe 3 stars, without seminars)! And all my mining ships are L, so they have been around for a while.
Imperial Good wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 08:24
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
HAT plot was kinda boring.
It is more a tutorial plot to accompany the HQ plotline. It gives you some money and a free trader very early on. It also introduces you to Dal Busta who is used in most storylines.

That's fine.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
Paranid plot - hated all the EVA'ing.
EVA'ing?

Extravehicular activity (being in your space suit)
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
Split plot was better - at least it opened up a new sector, which I promptly stole from them the minute I could.
The sector is unowned anyway.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
At this point I was getting increasingly irritated at the resource reqs for the plots.
The storylines do not require that many resources. Once you have ship building going (late game) you are pretty much good to go.

If you want to see real costs, do terraforming missions. Stages can cost hundreds of millions in raw materials alone. However even these have some kind of reward.

I'm not going to do the terraforming missions. They are nothing but a waste of time. Anyway, that's beside the point. My point is - if the plots had actual, unique rewards (like a unique ship) - the resource cost wouldn't really matter, because you'd get something cool and unique out of it.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
I also did the Xenon quest where you basically cleanse 4 or 5 sectors of them. Not even a thank you from the Yaki, nor Dal Busta..
Sounds like it bugged out? They are meant to thank you and then become their own faction to some extent.

Must be a common bug; seen quite a few complain about this.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
It cost me about 10 Asgards and maybe 15 destroyers - no way was I going to manually destroy all those stations.
7 Syns would probably have been enough. Xenon stations die pretty easily if you park them facing them.

A single Asgard or any other destroyer capable of outranging the Gravitons would have been enough, if I did it myself. But at that point, I was sick of destroying stations, and let them do 90% of it OOS. My shipyard super complex easily replaced the losses anyway.
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
But no. Now they want a gajillion different resources, as well as a billion credits (what on earth for??), and apparently won't do jack with their shipyard until they get it. I already single handedly built and paid for a big shipyard, with no rewards, and now I am 100% sure I will get nothing tangible for completing these new steps either. I won't even bother to check - I know the answer. Some extra rep, a paintjob, or faction relations changes.
They also should start building ships. Which means they will either buy ships from you, or buy resources from you to build the ships themselves. Those ships will then kill HOP and PAR ships (if you did not destroy them...) and then be killed. HOP and and PAR will then order new ships meaning they will either buy ships from you, or buy resources from you to build the ships themselves. TEM will also pirate other faction's stations and traders allowing you more impact in supply chains in general. Result is the billions it cost are potentially paid back in a few hours or less.

This logic applies to Paranid unification as well. You can make them go to war with the Teladi, Argons or Terrans and then profit off both sides of the conflict. Ideally you want degenerate situations where both sides order ships from your ship building facilities to immediately kill each other upon undocking, so they quickly order more.

Selling ships to AI is like throwing tons of free money down the toilet, after the nerf. I barely recoup the very few costs I have when I sell ships at 150% price (I produce everything except maybe 3 resources). And who needs money at this point in the game anyway? I don't know how many hundred million I make an hour now, but it's enough that I absolutely don't need more. What I would like - is some actual rewards. I do admit though, it is cool creating wars between races, so kudos to Egosoft for that. But that should have been in addition to - not instead of - for example, unique ships, mods, weapons, sectors, etc
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:16
Why is there nothing like that here?
There kind of is. The rewards just are not immediately tangible. The wars and economic opportunities created can quickly pay for the cost of the storyline.

In theory you do gain unique ships as rewards. Unless you side with the Yaki you cannot get the blueprints to build the Yaki ships leaving you without their Nemesis variant and with only 2 potential copies of their Pegasus variant.

Ships and weapons are a lot more difficult to create than in X3. Egosoft likely does not have the resources to create a beautifully designed ship that you can only obtain 1 of. Even if they did, people would come pestering on the forums asking to be able to obtain more of it.

Sure, you do get 2 unique BP's. For 2 small ships. But yes, they are good ones.
Well, they somehow managed to get it right in X3, and I'm guessing their team was smaller back then. They wouldn't even have to have that unique designs. Could be a slight variant of an existing ship, with different stats. I'm not asking for the world here. Just about every single game, ever, rewards the player with something. How many economic opportunities do you need before you are rich enough that it doesn't matter anymore? For me, it was probably before I even finished a single plot, because having a fleet of miners, preferably tasked to a factory you own, is basically all you need. And then just expand with a new factory, and new miners, and so on. No wars needed to become filthy rich.
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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Old Drullo321 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 11:33

Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 10:37
And yes, the paints should be unlimited use. And how about maybe giving out a bunch of seminars for pilot skill / management skill? Or exceptional mods? These are things that already exist in the game, are hard to get, and would take them 30 seconds to program in as rewards. After over 20 game days, I STILL don't have a single miner with 5 stars (I think the highest is maybe 3 stars, without seminars)! And all my mining ships are L, so they have been around for a while.
I don't know if you know this but you will never have any AutoMiner or station assigned miner, be it S, M or L get up to 5*. Let me tell you before hand I don't like the current implementation of the experience system, especially in combination with the Aerial Maze terraforming mission.

NPC crew has the possibility to gain experience in their respective field (piloting, managment, engineering, boarding, etc.) and morale on each action they partake. They don't get a fixed amount of experience, they have chances (most often very low) to get 1/3 star. These chances depend on two factors: how difficult or worth this action was (e.g. kill destroyer with M clas ship) and how high their own experience level is. E.g. the chances to get another 1/3 star are lower for killing a destroyer in a M ship when already at 4 2/3 stars then when beeing a newbie.
And now comes the plot stopper. Actions like mining is capped at 8 or 9 levels (each 3 level = 1 star). So your pilots won't advance 2 2/3 or 3 stars ever as miners. Ironically mining, especially silicon mining profits from high skill levels. And thus in lategame youre forced to manually switch all your ship pilots manually one by one with pilots trained by the aerial maze. If you don't do this and just buy or build 5-10 more miners (depening on the mineral/gas, this roughly is the difference in mining speed between a 5* pilot+crew vs a newbie 0-1* pilot/crew). But then you will run into a different problem: Performance issues by having too much ships and cluttering the whole map too. Aerial maze is fine but withhold UI inteactions for mass pilot changes (e.g. select multiple ships + select multiple crew => Switch to best pilot for each selected ship)

In theory, this experience system is fine by itself but has a lot of caveats. It is simply better, not by economical margins but for experience gain of pilot, crew and manager to use alot of S ships for more actions and thus more chances for levelups then using M or L ships. The same goes for gaining reputation. So it is better to sell 10.000 x 1 hull part to a faction wharf for gaining reputation then sell 10 x 1.000 with a M ship or 4 x 2.500 with an L freighter. :rant:

And to continue, setting up more complex economical chains with mining and trade hubs, central storage, working together by fine tuning min/max/auto pricing buy and sell offers for automatic internal trade is even worse for your managers and ships because most, if not all of these trades are considered "bad" and thus not gaining experience for your pilots and ships at all. The L freighter captain, hauling thousands of goods for your internal logistics for 10 ingame days will have less skill then the S ship captain, exploiting reputation gain to factions for 3 hours by selling 1x ware to NPC station.

I could continue this list with alot more issues. Basically you could say alot of fine by themselves features are clogged together, creating a poor and imbalanced result. Story and from an immersive point of view, all the story plots are really cool and well made, but as you said, the reward is actually lackluster. I was really disappointed that when I completed the Yaki Plot by erase the Xenon out of three sectors, I didn't even get a ingame message in my log, just plain nothing. I only noted that i finished the plot by gaining the notice that I got a steam achievement. :roll:

The game itself is nice and full of small little details, especially the atmosphere, music, station building and, in comparison to previous titles and other games, simulated economy. Leaving bugs aside, on the other hand it contains alot of missed opportunities and especially felt very tiresome and exhausting because of alot of missing methods to achieve some things in the game.

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Sehnsucht1985 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 14:36

Old Drullo321 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 11:33
Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 10:37
And yes, the paints should be unlimited use. And how about maybe giving out a bunch of seminars for pilot skill / management skill? Or exceptional mods? These are things that already exist in the game, are hard to get, and would take them 30 seconds to program in as rewards. After over 20 game days, I STILL don't have a single miner with 5 stars (I think the highest is maybe 3 stars, without seminars)! And all my mining ships are L, so they have been around for a while.
I don't know if you know this but you will never have any AutoMiner or station assigned miner, be it S, M or L get up to 5*. Let me tell you before hand I don't like the current implementation of the experience system, especially in combination with the Aerial Maze terraforming mission.

NPC crew has the possibility to gain experience in their respective field (piloting, managment, engineering, boarding, etc.) and morale on each action they partake. They don't get a fixed amount of experience, they have chances (most often very low) to get 1/3 star. These chances depend on two factors: how difficult or worth this action was (e.g. kill destroyer with M clas ship) and how high their own experience level is. E.g. the chances to get another 1/3 star are lower for killing a destroyer in a M ship when already at 4 2/3 stars then when beeing a newbie.
And now comes the plot stopper. Actions like mining is capped at 8 or 9 levels (each 3 level = 1 star). So your pilots won't advance 2 2/3 or 3 stars ever as miners. Ironically mining, especially silicon mining profits from high skill levels. And thus in lategame youre forced to manually switch all your ship pilots manually one by one with pilots trained by the aerial maze. If you don't do this and just buy or build 5-10 more miners (depening on the mineral/gas, this roughly is the difference in mining speed between a 5* pilot+crew vs a newbie 0-1* pilot/crew). But then you will run into a different problem: Performance issues by having too much ships and cluttering the whole map too. Aerial maze is fine but withhold UI inteactions for mass pilot changes (e.g. select multiple ships + select multiple crew => Switch to best pilot for each selected ship)

In theory, this experience system is fine by itself but has a lot of caveats. It is simply better, not by economical margins but for experience gain of pilot, crew and manager to use alot of S ships for more actions and thus more chances for levelups then using M or L ships. The same goes for gaining reputation. So it is better to sell 10.000 x 1 hull part to a faction wharf for gaining reputation then sell 10 x 1.000 with a M ship or 4 x 2.500 with an L freighter. :rant:

And to continue, setting up more complex economical chains with mining and trade hubs, central storage, working together by fine tuning min/max/auto pricing buy and sell offers for automatic internal trade is even worse for your managers and ships because most, if not all of these trades are considered "bad" and thus not gaining experience for your pilots and ships at all. The L freighter captain, hauling thousands of goods for your internal logistics for 10 ingame days will have less skill then the S ship captain, exploiting reputation gain to factions for 3 hours by selling 1x ware to NPC station.

I could continue this list with alot more issues. Basically you could say alot of fine by themselves features are clogged together, creating a poor and imbalanced result. Story and from an immersive point of view, all the story plots are really cool and well made, but as you said, the reward is actually lackluster. I was really disappointed that when I completed the Yaki Plot by erase the Xenon out of three sectors, I didn't even get a ingame message in my log, just plain nothing. I only noted that i finished the plot by gaining the notice that I got a steam achievement. :roll:

The game itself is nice and full of small little details, especially the atmosphere, music, station building and, in comparison to previous titles and other games, simulated economy. Leaving bugs aside, on the other hand it contains alot of missed opportunities and especially felt very tiresome and exhausting because of alot of missing methods to achieve some things in the game.
Yes, I figured it was some BS that caused it. But since station managers actually earn stars, at an almost bearable rate, it doesn't matter. But it's still annoying. Thanks for the tips and explanation though. I've read some of it before, but not all.

And no, I do not use S or M ships. They just get blown up by anything that's red on the map. Never going to happen. Doesn't matter that I make less money - I'm still a multi billionaire in the game. And I have FAR less micro, since I almost never lose L traders or miners. L ships are almost immune to Kha'ak fighters and corvettes and any other S and M ships, and L / XL ships are rare enough that you have to suffer some bad luck to lose one.

I kinda knew going in that the Xenon cleanse wouldn't get me squat, but figured I'd do it anyway, and maybe at least start to see some more Yaki ships. Me giving them free ships doesn't count.. Those materials are for me only :)

Been playing these games, heavily, since X3: TC now, so I am used to all the hassle, especially with the plot missions, which are just insane compared to basically anything outside of maybe raid quests in an MMO. But I dealt with them just fine in the X3 games, because they rewarded the player with cool stuff.

Anyway, I'm repeating myself. Still love the game, but don't see ANY reason to do any of the plots ever again, except PHQ and the Terran one for free cap ships if just starting out.
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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:01

Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 14:36
... the plot missions, which are just insane compared to basically anything ...

Anyway, I'm repeating myself. Still love the game, but don't see ANY reason to do any of the plots ever again, except PHQ and the Terran one for free cap ships if just starting out.
I never restart. Hence, every plot I do at most once and never again. (Some X3 starts had extra plot at start. Can't see them without a new start, i.e. never.) Furthermore, I delay doing any plots as long as possible, until there is nothing else to do. That is why, for me, the plot itself is its reward, a dose of unique insanity. :P

(Disclaimer: I obviously can't know what is in X4 plots, for I haven't done any yet.)
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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Imperial Good » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 18:28

Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 10:37
Well, they somehow managed to get it right in X3, and I'm guessing their team was smaller back then. They wouldn't even have to have that unique designs.
As I said, X3 ships were much easier to make than X4, especially the big ships.

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by kmunoz » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 04:28

Sehnsucht1985 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 10:37
it's lazy on the devs part
That's hardly likely. It would be fairly trivial to add specific rewards to the end of any given questline. What's really going on is that the devs made a decision about how their storylines will end and what rewards will accrue over the course of those stories, and you don't agree with the decision.

Calling them lazy is neither productive nor accurate, and only serves to make you look bad in public.
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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Sehnsucht1985 » Fri, 8. Oct 21, 08:59

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:01
I never restart. Hence, every plot I do at most once and never again. (Some X3 starts had extra plot at start. Can't see them without a new start, i.e. never.) Furthermore, I delay doing any plots as long as possible, until there is nothing else to do. That is why, for me, the plot itself is its reward, a dose of unique insanity. :P

(Disclaimer: I obviously can't know what is in X4 plots, for I haven't done any yet.)
I never restarted in X3: TC or AP either. Have an 800 hour savegame in X3: TC. But since I started my X4 save way back when it first released, I started a new game some weeks back since there have been so many changes. For the most part, I've enjoyed myself.
Imperial Good wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 18:28
As I said, X3 ships were much easier to make than X4, especially the big ships.
Then a simple reskin, with different stats, and a different name, would have sufficed. But I've already said this.
kmunoz wrote:
Fri, 8. Oct 21, 04:28
That's hardly likely. It would be fairly trivial to add specific rewards to the end of any given questline. What's really going on is that the devs made a decision about how their storylines will end and what rewards will accrue over the course of those stories, and you don't agree with the decision.

Calling them lazy is neither productive nor accurate, and only serves to make you look bad in public.
I never questioned how the plots ended. Just the rewards, specifically. And why on Earth would I agree with the decision to not reward the player after spending hours upon hours on a mission chain? Why do you have a problem with me speaking my mind about this? It literally says right in the thread title - "A RANT".

The very best way to look bad in public though - is to start attacking random strangers on the internet for no reason. So I'm good.
TC: All plots completed. ATF Tyr and Odin successfully boarded. Aran found and boarded.
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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by grapedog » Tue, 19. Oct 21, 09:26

Different strokes for different folks...

I enjoyed most of the plots, being able to shape the map how I wanted, to create different universes each time. Plus, designing some of the extra stations like for the PAR/DUKE choice was pretty fun... made some nifty designs. WIsh more of the factions asked for stations to be built.

As ZYA, you side with ZYA, and unite the PAR, then have them go to war with EVERYONE they share a sector with... fun times rolling over the rest of the map.
As ARG, I crushed the ZYA which led to RHA taking over some of their remaining sectors, didn't unite the Paranid so that Duke's Tempest can cause havoc in their sectors while also blockading HoP entrances into ARG/ANT space, and allied with ANT to crush the douchebag terrans.
As TEL... i wanted mostly money... and more factions fighting and losing more ships is always good.

It's cool to be able to re-shape the map without just rolling over the AI with death fleets. That's pretty easy, and kind of boring.

Would I have enjoyed more rewards, sure. But I don't need ships or cash... probably I think the best reward in the game was from the Scale Plate terraforming mission. Ship mods, highly skilled NPC's, massive reputation/harassment changes. That was very satisfying.

The Xenon trail of beacons was totally underwhelming and really felt like the biggest waste of my time and plot build-up.... what should have been an all out blitz on the Terrans turned into nothing. I broke Terran blockades, and avoided angry Terran ships, dropping beacons. Exciting and fun... only for a very pitiful Xenon force to trickle in around the map and easily die. So disappointing as the Terrans really have zero challenges in the game aside from the player... they're like an uber faction with no chance of losing to any other faction, except perhaps TRI in very specific circumstances.

Overall though, I enjoyed the plots... though in the mid-game, the amount of resources can be quite demanding... and by the time you can really afford to do those plots, you don't NEED to... it's just something to do. You could just change the map on your own with raw firepower instead of doing it through plot.

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by baerdesklopapies » Sun, 24. Oct 21, 20:50

I´m with Sehnsucht1985 with the Paranid Story/Rewards.
The story Starts great, has some interesting Storytelling (not all people like the EVA part :) ), but after you deliver the Ships/Fleet its starting to be a Time consuming Feather farming.
I had go alongside with the War/Pirate option.And what did i get?: boring Station Build order, wich simply cost you around 700 mil. Not really a problem but it feels like youre playing a bit harder generic Mission from the Missions board.
And the next mission.... a even harder 1.000.000.000 credit deliver and a wares order....
But the description of the Story part where interesting->Deliver wares to build a great Pirate Ship (its called different but i cant remember) and the credits for indoctrinating some Priest.
After you have complete the Orders you can visit the Great and Glorious Pirate ship.....and you see....a Paranid Carrier and some ARG Destroyers in some special Painting (wich uses the "new" Faction from now on).
What about to design a Special ship that is Protecting their new Shipyard? How Simple is this? Sorry....

I can remember that i was Facepalming at this point....this is not a reward ist just copy paste stuff with some other textures. Well then i docked on the ship to watch the glorious Bash against the Paranids and i get some Warp to the Gate....nothing other happens *clap clap*.
What about the indoctrinated Paranid Priests? Dal told me they are disappeared....*clap clap²*
Done.

And one Sidenote: What about a Special Shipyard for this Storyline? Some Copy paste missions to board a Carrier....Some copy paste mission to Attack a Freighter Convoy..and few Hours later->Tada we welded a couple of ships together and now we need some wares. After the Player has delivered the 99999 Wares->tada the Carrier has some Freighter upgrades and you can see other Ships welded into it and functions as a moving Pirate Base Protecting the sector and can Build some S/M ships.......
(this is what i have think about the boring storyline with Paranid)

On the other hand: i know that this Story part is one of the earliest in the Game, and i can remember that the community was crying about a missing good Story. Maybe this is the result: a quick Story that is simple to create.
I also have to say i never played the Terran questline yet, but rumors saying that this is the holy grail :)

o7

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 24. Oct 21, 23:33

baerdesklopapies wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 20:50
What about the indoctrinated Paranid Priests? Dal told me they are disappeared....*clap clap²*
Play the Unification branch...
Spoiler
Show
The indoctrinated Paranid priests are brain washed to vote for the Duke to be the new third pontifex of the Paranid, ruling spreme over the other two.
They must not serve a purpose with the Escalation branch.
baerdesklopapies wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 20:50
And one Sidenote: What about a Special Shipyard for this Storyline? Some Copy paste missions to board a Carrier....Some copy paste mission to Attack a Freighter Convoy..and few Hours later->Tada we welded a couple of ships together and now we need some wares. After the Player has delivered the 99999 Wares->tada the Carrier has some Freighter upgrades and you can see other Ships welded into it and functions as a moving Pirate Base Protecting the sector and can Build some S/M ships.......
(this is what i have think about the boring storyline with Paranid)
It starts a third Paranid faction that joins the fray with the other two. This means a third faction to sell ships and supplies to. TEM will even pirate your competitors. It also pulls HOP away from the ANT border slightly.

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Re: Plots and their lack of rewards - a rant

Post by baerdesklopapies » Tue, 26. Oct 21, 15:20

Just to be clear: I do not want to say X4 is a bad and sh***y game. At the beginning the Paranid Story has some really good Stuff in it , but the only thing you get after is a Dark Souls Asylum Demon that is later copied (The Demon is copied and reskinned 2 times in DS :P) , the fight is just a bit harder.I don't expect an RPG story in X4.The HQ and HAT Plots have some flying here, do that, things but they serve also as a Tutorial.At the Split, the Storytelling and Mission objectives are way better and most of it are copy-paste things :).I know that ES is not the best in create and telling Stories. And there is always the thing that this is a Sandbox game not a scripted COD.
Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 23:33
Play the Unification branch...
I can play only this way or another. I cant play both at same time...
Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 23:33
baerdesklopapies wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 20:50
What about the indoctrinated Paranid Priests? Dal told me they are disappeared....*clap clap²*
Spoiler
Show
The indoctrinated Paranid priests are brain washed to vote for the Duke to be the new third pontifex of the Paranid, ruling spreme over the other two.
They must not serve a purpose with the Escalation branch.
If i understand you right, the Spoiler Tag is the ending for Unification branch.
On the Escalation branch:
Why do i Save them just to blow up their Holy building? (Its because the choice is the blow it up or not, you get the Priest a bit earlier, i know) And why do i Indoctrinate them when it's clear that the Priest are not needed with this ending?
Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 23:33
baerdesklopapies wrote:
Sun, 24. Oct 21, 20:50
And one Sidenote: What about a Special Shipyard for this Storyline? Some Copy paste missions to board a Carrier....Some copy paste mission to Attack a Freighter Convoy..and few Hours later->Tada we welded a couple of ships together and now we need some wares. After the Player has delivered the 99999 Wares->tada the Carrier has some Freighter upgrades and you can see other Ships welded into it and functions as a moving Pirate Base Protecting the sector and can Build some S/M ships.......
(this is what i have think about the boring storyline with Paranid)
It starts a third Paranid faction that joins the fray with the other two. This means a third faction to sell ships and supplies to. TEM will even pirate your competitors. It also pulls HOP away from the ANT border slightly.
This part of the "Rant" is not about the consequences :), the point here is: Why do i get a generic Mission to build something? I have done this in generic Missions a dozen times, at this point you usually have done building a lot. Both Missions afterwards are simply deliver Wares too. It is a bit Harder to build a Shipyard then a Hull Production, that is true. And what about building a unique Shipyard or a great and glorious Ship and not a copy paste Zeus with some new textures?

I know it creates a new Faction that should rage against the Paranid but:
Gride says something about were rushing in to eliminate everything (can't remember) and then the Mission says something about watch the glorius Bash. The Ships are Starting and rushing to the Gate, the Duke is talking about something be with me or against me. The next thing that happens was nothing, the Zeus goes into Patrol mode or something and Dal told me to come over to finish this. It feels not like there is something going on, even after i have talked with Dal.

And here is what my universe looks like after several Days: https://imgur.com/a/bM3IGF7
Nothing is changed :)

o7

*edit* i know why my universe isn't changing at all. It is because the OOS battles are not working right actually (i do not want to rant about that... its a bug that i can live with and i am sure it will be fixed as soon as possible).
The Factions are building their Defence Stations in Enemy Sectors, but none of the Ships/Fleet can Manage to kill a Defence Station.

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