Any plots worth doing ?

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Dreez
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Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Dreez » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:01

Just finished the Split plot and i've done a few others and none of the plots has had any rewards worth mentioning.
The split plot alone cost me roughly 1.5billion and didn't give me anything at all...a sector.... yay.
Another plot that didn't give anything was the HAT plot, total letdown.

In X3 we had plots that gave unique corvette, the PHQ, the HUB. And the Goner mission which gave the TLS + Unfocused jumpdrive,
and another mission gave the opportynity to get the BP for both the Thor and Fenrit M3+ fighters.

But i haven't seen a single plot in X4 that rewards unique ships or anything else that would warrant a 1.5billion credit investment
to putting up shipyard or supplying a whole fleet.

Are there any rewards actually worth all the hassle with plots ?.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Alan Phipps
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:15

I don't know if you consider these rewards as such, but the choices you make in the plots affect your relationships with existing and emerging factions and also somewhat shape the way in which the game galaxy and your place in its economy progress after those plots.
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Dreez
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Dreez » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 13:39

Alan Phipps wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:15
I don't know if you consider these rewards as such, but the choices you make in the plots affect your relationships with existing and emerging factions and also somewhat shape the way in which the game galaxy and your place in its economy progress after those plots.
No i don't consider reputation a reasonable rewards for finishing a plot since reputation can be gained anyway,
and shaping the map by switching around a few ownership on stations and sectors does nothing really.
Good rewards would be, as i previously stated, shiny things like unique ships with special mods (perhapds Mk4-5 prototype mods) etc etc.

Telling me i can do a plot that's gonna cost me the majority of my liquid funds for some mere reputation is an easy way of making me NOT doing the plot.
And if this is how plots rewards you in X4... guess i won't be doing any more plots, or buy CoH .
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

jlehtone
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 13:56

Could you believe that gratitude would be enough for some players?


Shiny things, unique ships, are tiresome. One would have to babysit them or risk losing them. Factions plunged into war is safe and sound; effortless.
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Dreez » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 14:19

jlehtone wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 13:56
Could you believe that gratitude would be enough for some players?


Shiny things, unique ships, are tiresome. One would have to babysit them or risk losing them. Factions plunged into war is safe and sound; effortless.
I don't see why we couldn't get similarly proper rewards for finishing plots in X4 as we did in X3. Why should we be "happy" with some reputation
when we got amazing rewards in the previous installment of the X-series ?.

I mean.. even the Goner-plot that gave the TLS and Unfocused jump, the REAL reward from the Goner plot was the ability to locate the ARAN.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

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grapedog
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by grapedog » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:23

Alan Phipps wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:15
I don't know if you consider these rewards as such, but the choices you make in the plots affect your relationships with existing and emerging factions and also somewhat shape the way in which the game galaxy and your place in its economy progress after those plots.
I rather enjoy reshaping the map and factions, but i would like war missions on offer afterwards for new factions. Shiny rewards are fine too, but once you have a good cash stream, rewards like that are of little consequence. New ways to obtain mods is good, when resolving a plot typically only removes ways to find good mod parts.

If i spent 1.5 billion on building a fleet, does a ship that costs a humdred million really mean anything to me? Nope.

PowerPC603
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by PowerPC603 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 21:20

Dreez wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 13:39
Alan Phipps wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:15
I don't know if you consider these rewards as such, but the choices you make in the plots affect your relationships with existing and emerging factions and also somewhat shape the way in which the game galaxy and your place in its economy progress after those plots.
No i don't consider reputation a reasonable rewards for finishing a plot since reputation can be gained anyway,
and shaping the map by switching around a few ownership on stations and sectors does nothing really.
Good rewards would be, as i previously stated, shiny things like unique ships with special mods (perhapds Mk4-5 prototype mods) etc etc.

Telling me i can do a plot that's gonna cost me the majority of my liquid funds for some mere reputation is an easy way of making me NOT doing the plot.
And if this is how plots rewards you in X4... guess i won't be doing any more plots, or buy CoH .
You could gain rep with the other races without doing any plot, that's true.
But you cannot force peace or more war between PAR and HOP without the plot.
As far as I understand the PAR plot, the decisions you make can either make peace between those 2 factions or make them more aggressive.
I chose for peace but now I need to build a station with some modules where I need to buy some 500m blueprint before I can complete it.
So I haven't finished it yet so I can't tell if it really makes a difference.
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Dreez » Wed, 30. Jun 21, 16:27

PowerPC603 wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 21:20
You could gain rep with the other races without doing any plot, that's true.
But you cannot force peace or more war between PAR and HOP without the plot.
I don't understand why we couldn't be rewarded with bling instead of just reputation or "impacting the map" which doesn't matter anyway.
In X3TC we had.

Venti - awesome and unique looking M3 fighter.
Skiron.
Heavy Centaur Prototype. Awesome looking M6 corvette.
Nova Prototype M3
Eclipse Prototype M3+
ARAN M0 supersized carrier.
Two ATF fighters M3+ (im not 100% sure but iirc you get all 4 ATF fighter from the same plot).
Vidar M6 the only ship of it's kind in the game (unless you reverse engineer and build more).
Springblossom M6 unique superfast with 2 S-sized docks.
Spytfire M3 (only become available from Terran plot)

This makes 13 ships from plots, either as reward or access to them in some form.
But in X4 we get nothing.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

jlehtone
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 30. Jun 21, 20:02

Is there now bling that you can't get? Bling "doesn't matter anyway".

The map -- whether factions are at peace -- does have impact on how large sink there is, which in turn affects how much you can easily build and trade. Oh yes, credits are worthless; nobody wants them.

You say that the things you get from plots is nothing. I say that bling is nothing. Its a matter of taste. I like nothing. :roll:
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razoth
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by razoth » Fri, 2. Jul 21, 02:14

I think OP has a point. You, as the person, who by themself makes the split rebellion against zyarth (for example) succeed, don't really get anything from them. Sure it has impact on the map and I still do the plots in every new game (slowly, tho) and it might even be worth doing them (and having goals is nice). But it still is dissapointing, that after giving them their victory (which won't happen if you ignore them), they don't reward you as the one who made it possible.

I wish they would give you a unique blueprint of one of their ships with a (otherwise unobtainable) loadout slots or stats. And maybe after finishing the plot of a faction, they could let you paint as many ships as you like with their painting.

TL;DR I wish you would get something out of the faction plots, that is for you and unique.

edit: I think btw, the Syn you get from the terrans, is a really nice reward. Allthough getting one ship loses relevance quickly, once your fleet grows (I would have preferred getting the BP after you prove to them, you're trustworthy).

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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 2. Jul 21, 10:23

razoth wrote:
Fri, 2. Jul 21, 02:14
But it still is dissapointing, that after giving them their victory (which won't happen if you ignore them), they don't reward you as the one who made it possible.
Kambei Shimada (in Seven Samurai): "So. Again we are defeated. ... The farmers have won. Not us."
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razoth
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by razoth » Fri, 2. Jul 21, 12:38

Kambei Shimada (in Seven Samurai): "So. Again we are defeated. ... The farmers have won. Not us."
Sorry, but ... I don't get it :(

jlehtone
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 2. Jul 21, 13:26

In the film Seven Samurai a poor farmer village (Split) hire seven ronin (us) to defend them against bandits (other Split).
There is a fight and four out of the seven samurais die, but the bandits are defeated.
In the end the farmers celebrate and the leader of the samurais notes that their contribution is quickly forgotten.
All they got for their troubles was some light meals and shallow graves.

Classic. Many tales show "The End" right after the victory, rather than reveal the grimness of "happily ever after".
Shown or unspoken, the prevalent trope is that the "hero" gets practically nothing.

That doesn't mean that it has to be so. But think as a Split. Which is more important: that you got your freedom or that some "hero" demands all your possessions as "tribute" for the "help" they claim to have provided?
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razoth
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by razoth » Fri, 2. Jul 21, 14:57

Well, thanks for explaining. I was missing that context, which seems to be a fitting comparison.

This might come down to, what we expect from a game. I would throw out realism and even story telling for rewarding gameplay (if they collide) in almost all cases.

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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by michi_oss » Sat, 3. Jul 21, 14:04

The Terran (and yaki) Plot is useful at least at the beginning of the game I think. It does cost less, but you get some ships.

I also do not really understand the high costs for Split and Par plots. Because you can finish these plots only in the endgame when you have already plenty billion of credits and reached/tried out everything else before (at least I would do other things then the plots when I reach the billion credits). After this plots you "close" the savegame?! At this point of game I do not need more reputation or similar.

Yes, you change the behaviour of the split and par faction with their plots, but at a point in game where it is quite useless in my opinion.
Would be more useful in midgame.
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Dreez
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Dreez » Sat, 3. Jul 21, 17:05

razoth wrote:
Fri, 2. Jul 21, 02:14
I think OP has a point. You, as the person, who by themself makes the split rebellion against zyarth (for example) succeed, don't really get anything from them. Sure it has impact on the map and I still do the plots in every new game (slowly, tho) and it might even be worth doing them (and having goals is nice). But it still is dissapointing, that after giving them their victory (which won't happen if you ignore them), they don't reward you as the one who made it possible.

I wish they would give you a unique blueprint of one of their ships with a (otherwise unobtainable) loadout slots or stats. And maybe after finishing the plot of a faction, they could let you paint as many ships as you like with their painting.

TL;DR I wish you would get something out of the faction plots, that is for you and unique.

edit: I think btw, the Syn you get from the terrans, is a really nice reward. Allthough getting one ship loses relevance quickly, once your fleet grows (I would have preferred getting the BP after you prove to them, you're trustworthy).
This is exactly my point. I pretty much helped a faction to rebell against an oppressive state, aided them with a military fleet and insane financial support,
and when the rebellion was won, i didn't get anything useful as reward. This is the kind of reward-system that makes me NOT do any more content,
because it's simply not worth it.
And now that i know the PAR plot also requires billons of credits and building fleets, i deffo won't do that content.

Imo this is a huge failiure .
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by grapedog » Sat, 3. Jul 21, 23:27

michi_oss wrote:
Sat, 3. Jul 21, 14:04
The Terran (and yaki) Plot is useful at least at the beginning of the game I think. It does cost less, but you get some ships.

I also do not really understand the high costs for Split and Par plots. Because you can finish these plots only in the endgame when you have already plenty billion of credits and reached/tried out everything else before (at least I would do other things then the plots when I reach the billion credits). After this plots you "close" the savegame?! At this point of game I do not need more reputation or similar.

Yes, you change the behaviour of the split and par faction with their plots, but at a point in game where it is quite useless in my opinion.
Would be more useful in midgame.
The Terran plot though, nothing really changes.... even if you drop all the beacons. The map remains 99% the same.

The SPL and PAR/HoP plots change the game drastically... so it is much more of an investment, but you're also making drastic changes to the map with that investment.

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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by razoth » Sun, 4. Jul 21, 13:35

grapedog wrote:
Sat, 3. Jul 21, 23:27
The Terran plot though, nothing really changes.... even if you drop all the beacons. The map remains 99% the same.

The SPL and PAR/HoP plots change the game drastically... so it is much more of an investment, but you're also making drastic changes to the map with that investment.
I can't say much to the cradle of humanity plots, haven't finished it.

But I totally agree for the rest. The problem with those changes is, imo that they are not necassarily rewards. You can hugely profit from them, sure, but they might also hurt you. You don't really know how they play out before finishing them (ok, Del Busta does give you some generel global changes, that should be expected). I like that about them - it gives your decision gravitas. But I still think a reward for completing any one plot would benefit the game, because it doesn't rely on your other actions or lack there of.

When I first finished the PAR plot, I was super proud, but also somewhat screwed myself over. I fought for a reunited paranid empire, only afterwards dId I realize, that all my infrastructure (and most of the game's as well) relyed on War and I just brought peace to half the map. This was improved in a future update, by giving you the option to help them find a calling for a new holy war against another faction.

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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by michi_oss » Sun, 4. Jul 21, 14:48

grapedog wrote:
Sat, 3. Jul 21, 23:27
The SPL and PAR/HoP plots change the game drastically... so it is much more of an investment, but you're also making drastic changes to the map with that investment.
Yes, but nearly at the "end" of the game. So I ask myself where is the benefit for me as player? At this time I have already billions of dollar, high reputation everywhere, a lot of ships and stations, perhaps destroyed the Xenon, etc.
So after doing the Split and PAR plots there is nearly nothing left to do?! Beside destroying all other factions or similar. But therefore I do not need to do the plots.
But I think it is similar to terraforming. More or less missions in the endgame to have something to do instead of getting bored and play another game. At least at the moment I see no real sense in these plots and terraforming then a "job creation scheme". You do these missions only to finish the mission...

I like to have missions with a benefit for the further playtime. But I do not see the further playtime after these plots and terraforming... But lets wait until I reach this state. ;)
Thats the reason why I liked the Terran plot. I got the Katana and Syn in the early game and this helped directly for the further playtime.
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Re: Any plots worth doing ?

Post by Dreez » Sun, 4. Jul 21, 19:34

Now i know X4 isn't X3, but since they're pretty much the "same" game in terms of lore etc etc etc .. i'll keep refering to X3.

Back when i played X3 on my first tour and being a complete nub, many of the questions that came from a lot of players was
regarding how to get "this ship" or "that ship" . Many players was asking about the ARAN, which was only attainable either
through cheating or completing a plot and trust in RNG with unfocused jumps.

Many players also wanted the True Light Seeker because it was the only ship in the game that could use Khaak weaponry.

A lot of players also wanted the awesome looking Vidar, which forced them to do the Terran plot.

HOWEVER.
In X4 there isn't a single unique ship gained from plots. The only plot worth doing is the PHQ plot, which is done
in one hour .. compared to the HUB plot in X3 which took months of preparation due to the chip-mission,
which had to be completed in order to start the PHQ plot .

So the question is. If X3TC/AP could have all of these awesome rewards for plots that made you WANT to complete them,
then why is X4 so utterly devoid of unique rewards that makes us want to do them.

Yes i know some people had fun completing most plots, but i don't work like that. The juice has to be worth the squeeze,
and building a fleet and paying billions of credits for some reputation - isn't worth it.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

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