Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

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paraskous
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by paraskous » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 15:26

Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 01:06
Quick question here:
I own Getsu Fune.
If I trigger the TER/ANT war, I do expect them to happily go ham on each other within my own space. This is fine.
Should be good for my economy, especially since I plan to plant down a shipyard able to build every one of each faction's ships. 8)

Question is, will they skip Getsu Fune and start to push into enemy territory even without border continuity?
Ok, let's face it: Will TER take over The Void? Cause I don't see how ANT could take over the Asteroid Belt. :D
TER took the Void in my game. And push into Flashpoint, but not too determined. Good action there though. Gtsu Fune was terran within minutes. The Void didn't take long - they had bases there already.

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Ezarkal » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:21

paraskous wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 15:26
Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 01:06
Quick question here:
I own Getsu Fune.
If I trigger the TER/ANT war, I do expect them to happily go ham on each other within my own space. This is fine.
Should be good for my economy, especially since I plan to plant down a shipyard able to build every one of each faction's ships. 8)

Question is, will they skip Getsu Fune and start to push into enemy territory even without border continuity?
Ok, let's face it: Will TER take over The Void? Cause I don't see how ANT could take over the Asteroid Belt. :D
TER took the Void in my game. And push into Flashpoint, but not too determined. Good action there though. Gtsu Fune was terran within minutes. The Void didn't take long - they had bases there already.
My question is will Terran push into the void even if it is not contiguous to their sector. They can't own Getsu Fune unless they take it from me, an that won't happen unless I simply choose to deconstruct my admin modules. So will they just skip me and keep pushing, or will my owning of the sector stop them from expanding.
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jlehtone
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:52

Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:21
My question is will Terran push into the void even if it is not contiguous to their sector.
So far all accounts have been that NPC can invade only their neighbours. People have used that to confine factions all along.


I have not done plots, so ANT-TER is still -15. When some harm did come to TER Admin modules in Belt, the ANT did swiftly build in Belt. They were quick enough (or the Terran rebuild efforts met hot plasma) and Belt is now ANT without any war. Alas, when TER admins in Jupiter did meet the same fate, the ANT did not seize the opportunity. Ah well, we can try again. And again. And ...
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Raptor34
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Raptor34 » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 20:50

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:52
Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:21
My question is will Terran push into the void even if it is not contiguous to their sector.
So far all accounts have been that NPC can invade only their neighbours. People have used that to confine factions all along.


I have not done plots, so ANT-TER is still -15. When some harm did come to TER Admin modules in Belt, the ANT did swiftly build in Belt. They were quick enough (or the Terran rebuild efforts met hot plasma) and Belt is now ANT without any war. Alas, when TER admins in Jupiter did meet the same fate, the ANT did not seize the opportunity. Ah well, we can try again. And again. And ...
Not completely true. It seems the check is not sector ownership, assuming of course its your sector at least, but whether they have an admin module in the intervening sector.
I've took Tharka's Cascade, the lower one, and yet ZYA pushed on to the upper Tharka's Cascade too because they had admin centers in the preceding sector.
Also it seems that you have to kill all the defense stations to prevent them from rebuilding, of course I might be wrong but it seems that ARG ships blew up one of the 2 defense stations and they rebuilt it. Or at least it seemed to be in a different location.

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 21:30

Raptor34 wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 20:50
Not completely true. It seems the check is not sector ownership, assuming of course its your sector at least, but whether they have an admin module in the intervening sector.
I've took Tharka's Cascade, the lower one, and yet ZYA pushed on to the upper Tharka's Cascade too because they had admin centers in the preceding sector.
Ok.
1. You have ownership of Cascade XV
2. ZYA contests your claim of XV
3. ZYA can now contest Cascade XVII, because they have admin at neighbor

The question is then all about 2: can/will TER contest Getsu from player? If enemies, then definitely yes.

Is it possible that sectors like Tharka's Cascades have "special rules", because they are "within same hex"? They do have special rules for travel.
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Ezarkal
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Ezarkal » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 22:40

Raptor34 wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 20:50
jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:52
Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:21
My question is will Terran push into the void even if it is not contiguous to their sector.
So far all accounts have been that NPC can invade only their neighbours. People have used that to confine factions all along.


I have not done plots, so ANT-TER is still -15. When some harm did come to TER Admin modules in Belt, the ANT did swiftly build in Belt. They were quick enough (or the Terran rebuild efforts met hot plasma) and Belt is now ANT without any war. Alas, when TER admins in Jupiter did meet the same fate, the ANT did not seize the opportunity. Ah well, we can try again. And again. And ...
Not completely true. It seems the check is not sector ownership, assuming of course its your sector at least, but whether they have an admin module in the intervening sector.
I've took Tharka's Cascade, the lower one, and yet ZYA pushed on to the upper Tharka's Cascade too because they had admin centers in the preceding sector.
Also it seems that you have to kill all the defense stations to prevent them from rebuilding, of course I might be wrong but it seems that ARG ships blew up one of the 2 defense stations and they rebuilt it. Or at least it seemed to be in a different location.
This is very interesting, because while I own the sector and have over half a dozen stations in, many with admin modules, both ANT and TER also have 2 admin modules each. So if what you say holds true, then they are still free to invade each others.

I took over Getsu Fune before COH was released. ANT only had 1 admin module in, so I built my own then used the traitor mine trick to take over the sector. Ofc they did rebuild that module. Then CoH was released, and terran quickly built 1 admin module, either scripted or because our relations were not high enough. Their second build module came during one of the plot quest. Recently, ANT build a second one.

So all in all it promises a lot of fireworks when thing will go south. (Because believe me they will.) This is gonna be fun. :D
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

Raptor34
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Raptor34 » Thu, 22. Apr 21, 07:05

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 21:30
Raptor34 wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 20:50
Not completely true. It seems the check is not sector ownership, assuming of course its your sector at least, but whether they have an admin module in the intervening sector.
I've took Tharka's Cascade, the lower one, and yet ZYA pushed on to the upper Tharka's Cascade too because they had admin centers in the preceding sector.
Ok.
1. You have ownership of Cascade XV
2. ZYA contests your claim of XV
3. ZYA can now contest Cascade XVII, because they have admin at neighbor

The question is then all about 2: can/will TER contest Getsu from player? If enemies, then definitely yes.

Is it possible that sectors like Tharka's Cascades have "special rules", because they are "within same hex"? They do have special rules for travel.
Well, to be precise.
1. ZYA has ownership of XV
2. I contest claim of XV
3. I blow up admin of XV flipping sector to my control, but not the whole station
4. ZYA repairs the admin module
5. ZYA proceeded to contest XVII

I'm fairly certain they did not start contesting XVII before that, probably lack of firepower or something. But perhaps they might have already started contesting and it then no longer considers the intervening sector? I'm 99% certain they did not contest XVII beforehand because otherwise I wouldn't have bothered flipping XV and just went ahead to contest XVII to halt them instead. Or at least they didn't have an admin up in XVII, nor send serious fleets in.
Ezarkal wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 22:40
Raptor34 wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 20:50
jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 17:52

So far all accounts have been that NPC can invade only their neighbours. People have used that to confine factions all along.


I have not done plots, so ANT-TER is still -15. When some harm did come to TER Admin modules in Belt, the ANT did swiftly build in Belt. They were quick enough (or the Terran rebuild efforts met hot plasma) and Belt is now ANT without any war. Alas, when TER admins in Jupiter did meet the same fate, the ANT did not seize the opportunity. Ah well, we can try again. And again. And ...
Not completely true. It seems the check is not sector ownership, assuming of course its your sector at least, but whether they have an admin module in the intervening sector.
I've took Tharka's Cascade, the lower one, and yet ZYA pushed on to the upper Tharka's Cascade too because they had admin centers in the preceding sector.
Also it seems that you have to kill all the defense stations to prevent them from rebuilding, of course I might be wrong but it seems that ARG ships blew up one of the 2 defense stations and they rebuilt it. Or at least it seemed to be in a different location.
This is very interesting, because while I own the sector and have over half a dozen stations in, many with admin modules, both ANT and TER also have 2 admin modules each. So if what you say holds true, then they are still free to invade each others.

I took over Getsu Fune before COH was released. ANT only had 1 admin module in, so I built my own then used the traitor mine trick to take over the sector. Ofc they did rebuild that module. Then CoH was released, and terran quickly built 1 admin module, either scripted or because our relations were not high enough. Their second build module came during one of the plot quest. Recently, ANT build a second one.

So all in all it promises a lot of fireworks when thing will go south. (Because believe me they will.) This is gonna be fun. :D
In your situation they wouldn't leapfrog because ANT/TER are contesting the same sector, but if it isn't special rules or same hex as jheltone theorized, then yes, after they've cleared out the other admins they should in theory push through. Unless you nuke all the defense stations permanently and simultaneously I think.
For COH does the defense station have a different name? Iirc the one in Getsu Fune isn't called defense station but has some unique name.
Also ANT building a second one sounds like how the ZYA rebuilt a destroyed one to keep a number of 2 defense stations.

But ultimately who knows how these things work, in my game TEL has defense stations in Fires of Defeat for some reason, and I think the ARG/TEL border sectors have defense stations in each other's borders.

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by paraskous » Thu, 22. Apr 21, 10:26

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 21:30
Raptor34 wrote:
Wed, 21. Apr 21, 20:50
Not completely true. It seems the check is not sector ownership, assuming of course its your sector at least, but whether they have an admin module in the intervening sector.
I've took Tharka's Cascade, the lower one, and yet ZYA pushed on to the upper Tharka's Cascade too because they had admin centers in the preceding sector.
Ok.
1. You have ownership of Cascade XV
2. ZYA contests your claim of XV
3. ZYA can now contest Cascade XVII, because they have admin at neighbor

The question is then all about 2: can/will TER contest Getsu from player? If enemies, then definitely yes.

Is it possible that sectors like Tharka's Cascades have "special rules", because they are "within same hex"? They do have special rules for travel.
The sector is "Tharkas Cascade" all hexes are part of the sector. I don't know if admin module counts per hex or sector.

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 22. Apr 21, 11:45

paraskous wrote:
Thu, 22. Apr 21, 10:26
The sector is "Tharkas Cascade" all hexes are part of the sector. I don't know if admin module counts per hex or sector.
Example: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hv9KQz ... o3uKJ/view
* Tharka's Cascade is neutral. The XV is in Teladi control and XVII in Xenon control.
* Same for Hewa's Twin I/II. Uncontested.
* Hewa's Twin III/Cove is overall neutral. The III is uncontested Teladi and the Cove is neutral.

"Per hex" as you call it.
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Ezarkal
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Ezarkal » Thu, 22. Apr 21, 17:17

Raptor34 wrote:
Thu, 22. Apr 21, 07:05
In your situation they wouldn't leapfrog because ANT/TER are contesting the same sector, but if it isn't special rules or same hex as jheltone theorized, then yes, after they've cleared out the other admins they should in theory push through. Unless you nuke all the defense stations permanently and simultaneously I think.
For COH does the defense station have a different name? Iirc the one in Getsu Fune isn't called defense station but has some unique name.
Also ANT building a second one sounds like how the ZYA rebuilt a destroyed one to keep a number of 2 defense stations.

But ultimately who knows how these things work, in my game TEL has defense stations in Fires of Defeat for some reason, and I think the ARG/TEL border sectors have defense stations in each other's borders.
For the TER stations, one is a defense station, the other is the quest related defense station with a special name.
I guess the only reason why ANT built a second one is because even though it is my system it is contested by an unfriendly faction (I assume ANT and TER are not in the best of terms at gamestart) AND they already had one in.

But as you said, there seems to ba quite a few shenanigans to how this exactly works.
I'm not at the point where I want to start the fireworks just yet. I want to build my shipyard and finish it's supply line first. And even once the hostilities start, there's no guarantee anything will happen. (The universe is extremely passive so far, although I think this is due to a galaxy-wide shortage of adv. electronics.)
Still, if anything does happen, I'll let you guys know.
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

Berni
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Berni » Thu, 22. Apr 21, 21:29

Hello, which of the (main) storylines leads toward the Terran vs. Arg/Ant war again?
I'm kinda lost after this long time^^ my main missions are the one to infiltrate HAT (Terran Preparation) and another one (Second Assistant)^^

Which one should i follow to trigger the war?

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by paraskous » Fri, 23. Apr 21, 09:43

Berni wrote:
Thu, 22. Apr 21, 21:29
Hello, which of the (main) storylines leads toward the Terran vs. Arg/Ant war again?
I'm kinda lost after this long time^^ my main missions are the one to infiltrate HAT (Terran Preparation) and another one (Second Assistant)^^

Which one should i follow to trigger the war?
Terran Preparation

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Baconnaise » Fri, 30. Apr 21, 10:11

LandogarX4 wrote:
Sat, 3. Apr 21, 13:43
In my game the "war" between ANT and TER looks like this: ANT are suiciding their ships into Getsu Fune's heavy TER forces. That's it. TER are completely passive and don't move into The Void anymore. So for anyone hoping to prompt TER expansion, this is not what you are looking for. A total stale snoozefest like the rest of the 4.0 universe.

EDIT: It gets even worse. Now ANT are building defense stations in Getsu Fune unopposed. There are a dozen or so TER destroyers in the sector, but they do not attack the builders nor the stations. The faction AI is such silly, immersion-breaking crap.
Interesting outcome. I've started a few different saves so far and it seems like the Terrans start curb-stomping Antigone each time. Xenon have been the hit or miss for me. They will take over Getsu Fune sometimes briefly then the Terrans roll back in and take it then move to The Void. The other oddity is sometimes the Xenon don't make attempts at Getsu Fune and instead start building stations in The Void.

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Maebius » Fri, 11. Feb 22, 14:26

Sorry about digging up this thread but I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

After you finish the mission series and they're effectively at war, are there any war missions available to take?
Besides the odd "build a defensive module in Getsu Fune", being provided by normal missions given by being near some station, there are no faction "build XXX fleet" stuff available, like Argon vs Xenon.

Or is that it? They're both super bad at this "war".

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grapedog
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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by grapedog » Sun, 13. Feb 22, 05:24

factions changing does not add any war missions. essentially you can only lose war missions by finishing plots. none are gained, sadly. i wish they did add new war missions....

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Re: Terran vs Argon/Antingone war

Post by Karvat » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 15:19

AdrianH wrote:
Thu, 25. Mar 21, 16:47
Hi!

Yes, the decision is whether you want to change the relations so drastically that the factions go to war. This is an irreversible change, so if you decide to go with leaking the information as your option, you will trigger an infinite conflict.

I hope that answers your question!

Adrian
Why making such a fundamental aspect of the game like the diplomacy so demanding, long and even irreversible?

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