[Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

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sovsefar78
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[Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by sovsefar78 » Tue, 14. Dec 21, 13:41

I'm very much interested in hearing from X3 modders like Mayhem or Litcube what prevents them from making it in X4, i imagine it has something to do with the modding tool or the lack of time to do it all over again. After all these mods takes many years to develop.

For me this game's future rest on these modders, don't get me wrong i enjoy rebalance mods like VRO, but we need more than that.

6-8 years is a long time to mod something for free, if time is the only constraint then perhaps you could gate it behind patreon until it's done.

Flippi
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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by Flippi » Tue, 14. Dec 21, 14:00

Well, making ships became much harder due to the interiors, the modular approach and of course the less sophisticated tools and tutorials. That's also the reason why you are hard pressed finding new fighters or corvettes with some few exceptions. Too much work for little gain. To add a note here: I find it interesting and funny that we have an XR ship pack and even an X2 ship pack. But you won't find a X3 ship pack at all. Only a few handful of ships here and there were converted with some modifications.

Mapping is also unfun. And no, having to do that in wordpad, notepad++ or whatever program you use is not a great way of doing things. I speak from the perspective of an X3 mapper. I liked doing maps in the old games. The internal tool was great for 90% of the work that needed to be done. We lack that tool now.

Then there is scripting. Let's just say, that the old MD never took off as a good alternative way to script things. The old SE doesn't exist in X4, which means any script you write for this game is closer to the old MD than anything else. And not many bothered learning the MD back then, which means only a few people script in this game. Also, scripting is now purely external, which means no quick testing and therefore slower progress.

And after that, there are things that can't be modded yet. Like Characters for example. Because if it were possible, the Star Wars mod would've added countless of characters by now. You know, like B1 Droids (Roger Roger) or Everyone's favourite Weequay pirate lord.

To put things simple. It's unlikely that modding in X4 will take off as much as in older games. Especially with a new game already on the horizon. But there are still big mods out there. So there is at least something.
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sovsefar78
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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by sovsefar78 » Tue, 14. Dec 21, 14:07

Flippi wrote:
Tue, 14. Dec 21, 14:00
Well, making ships became much harder due to the interiors, the modular approach and of course the less sophisticated tools and tutorials. That's also the reason why you are hard pressed finding new fighters or corvettes with some few exceptions. Too much work for little gain. To add a note here: I find it interesting and funny that we have an XR ship pack and even an X2 ship pack. But you won't find a X3 ship pack at all. Only a few handful of ships here and there were converted with some modifications.

Mapping is also unfun. And no, having to do that in wordpad, notepad++ or whatever program you use is not a great way of doing things. I speak from the perspective of an X3 mapper. I liked doing maps in the old games. The internal tool was great for 90% of the work that needed to be done. We lack that tool now.

Then there is scripting. Let's just say, that the old MD never took off as a good alternative way to script things. The old SE doesn't exist in X4, which means any script you write for this game is closer to the old MD than anything else. And not many bothered learning the MD back then, which means only a few people script in this game. Also, scripting is now purely external, which means no quick testing and therefore slower progress.

And after that, there are things that can't be modded yet. Like Characters for example. Because if it were possible, the Star Wars mod would've added countless of characters by now. You know, like B1 Droids (Roger Roger) or Everyone's favourite Weequay pirate lord.

To put things simple. It's unlikely that modding in X4 will take off as much as in older games. Especially with a new game already on the horizon. But there are still big mods out there. So there is at least something.
I was afraid to hear something like that, oh well i guess i can always return to X3, you may not be able to walk around in your ship, but the modding community sure makes up for the shortcomings of the previous games.

Walking around your ships is nice, but it's more of a gimmick than anything else, i'd pick Litcube and Mayhem 3 over any X4 exclusive features any day of the week.

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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by Flippi » Tue, 14. Dec 21, 14:26

I was afraid to hear something like that, oh well i guess i can always return to X3, you may not be able to walk around in your ship, but the modding community sure makes up for the shortcomings of the previous games.
X3 with mods is certainly an nearly unbeatable beast. And it will continue to be that way, until X4's modding capabilities reach a similar level. The problem is then, do the modders from the old games return? And I have the suspicion that they won't. A lot of people moved on with the series. In part due to XR, as I had to find out with some former fans. And in other cases, they 'only' stopped modding but still play the games. Like for example Lucike, as far as I have read of course.

Only thing you can hope for, is that new people come and start modding. But for that, you still need to make entry into modding easier with better tools and tutorials. So, unlikely to happen, but certainly not impossible.
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aurumgallente
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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by aurumgallente » Fri, 21. Jan 22, 21:04

I don't think someone will make S or M X3 ships, they have too weird geometry to adapt them to X4 interiors. Some large X3 ships are parts of SWE, VRO and X2 ship pack. I was able to make 4 X3 ships so far, it's Demeter superfreighter, Vulture superfreighter, Colossus and Albatross.

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Shuulo
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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 21. Jan 22, 21:18

sovsefar78 wrote:
Tue, 14. Dec 21, 14:07
I was afraid to hear something like that, oh well i guess i can always return to X3, you may not be able to walk around in your ship, but the modding community sure makes up for the shortcomings of the previous games.

Walking around your ships is nice, but it's more of a gimmick than anything else, i'd pick Litcube and Mayhem 3 over any X4 exclusive features any day of the week.
Main problem for big overhaul mods is actually active cycle of development. That is also the reason why I keep VRO focused to certain things, every patch would immensely break overhaul mods, this is happening right now with Star Wars mod.
As for Litcube - comparison is kind of weird, it was in the making for around 5-6 years by the author and was released publicly ONLY after latest X3 expansions was out, X4 is no where near that time.

There are many background features that X3 will never have due to the old technologies comparing to X4.

kmunoz
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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by kmunoz » Tue, 25. Jan 22, 18:21

sovsefar78 wrote:
Tue, 14. Dec 21, 13:41
I'm very much interested in hearing from X3 modders like Mayhem or Litcube what prevents them from making it in X4
I wouldn't really consider Litcube a "total conversion" in the strictest sense. It's really more a complex additional gameplay layer on top of the existing game. And if *that* is what you're interested in, then all I have to say is... watch Kuertee. Running X4 with his current suite of mods makes for a *completely* different style of play. And I suspect he's just getting started.
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Re: [Query]Will X4: Foundations ever receive Total Conversion mods ?

Post by kuertee » Wed, 26. Jan 22, 14:28

total conversion used to mean that no assets from the base game is used - only the engine.
all new ships, all new textures, all new space visuals, all-new Mission Director logic, all new Lua UI. all new conversations, all new texts.
all new everything.
might as well market it as a new game. :D

but i know that definitions change over time.
so after 25 years (e.g. since the era of quake-c modding), total conversion may now mean something less than total. :D




kmunoz wrote:
Tue, 25. Jan 22, 18:21
...I wouldn't really consider Litcube a "total conversion" in the strictest sense. It's really more a complex additional gameplay layer on top of the existing game. And if *that* is what you're interested in, then all I have to say is... watch Kuertee. Running X4 with his current suite of mods makes for a *completely* different style of play. And I suspect he's just getting started.
oh! thanks for the shout-out. just caught it at the corner of my eye. hahaha!
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