Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

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WhiteFang
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Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by WhiteFang » Wed, 28. Jul 21, 01:51

I am wanting to know if modding is possible to achieve better dogfighting through these 2 specific changes?
1) Boosting does not reduce shields when Flight Assist is Disabled.
2) The top and bottom 10% of the throttle range is used for Boosting - forward and reverse respectively.

These 2 changes combined would enable far more FUN and complex dogfighting manoeuvring like in Evochron Legacy - really strafing literally around an enemy and avoiding turrets doing same.

If it is possible then my understanding from reading here and the modding support wiki is that essentially the way for me to do this is to unpack the game files and work it out from that?

Are there any books or Udemy courses that would be useful for learning these type of XML files that someone could recommend? Or is it better to just dive right in?

I have not written XML scripts before but only have 2 native android java apps I made from scratch in the google play store (did some Udemy and Mooc programming courses) and have done VBA work (taught myself ages ago) for financial businesses.

tomchk
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by tomchk » Sun, 1. Aug 21, 02:55

I don’t know the details for implementing your ideas, but your background sound sufficient to dive into the XML. I find it largely intuitive from a web dev and general software dev perspective.
As for strafing, vanilla mods can make that extremely doable in my experience, and some ships do it well without modification. I don’t recall which ships, but I know some can strafe circles around many others, at least bigger ships.
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kuertee
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by kuertee » Sun, 1. Aug 21, 14:51

yeah, straffing is pretty difficult with the side and vertical thrusters too week.

if they were short boosts that snap the ship laterally and vertically, straffing would be much more effective.

in small to fast-medium-sized ships, i fly just off-centre towards my target - letting my main guns' gimbals and the ship's auto-targeting system to track the enemy.
this prevents my ship from colliding head-on with the enemy.

for slower and larger ships, i do fly-by shooting by turning off flight assist (i.e. turn off the ship's flight correction systems) so that my ship continues on its path at the same speed.
this allows me to turn the ship, tracking the enemy, without changing the ships' direction. this is essential for destroying turrets.

as for modding the ship for straffing runs - maybe, giving those thrusters a really high value so that they actually move the ship in useful ways.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

WhiteFang
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by WhiteFang » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 21:34

Thanks guys, the information you provided was very helpful :)

kmunoz
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by kmunoz » Wed, 4. Aug 21, 04:05

WhiteFang wrote:
Wed, 28. Jul 21, 01:51
2) The top and bottom 10% of the throttle range is used for Boosting - forward and reverse respectively.
What advantage do you see in having the top of the throttle switch to boost?

I've never played X4 with keyboard and mouse so maybe this is a quirk/limitation of using the keyboard. With my HOTAS I have no difficulty hitting my boost button while pushing full throttle.

I can see a value in having boost work in reverse, though.
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kuertee
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by kuertee » Wed, 4. Aug 21, 08:42

I added a “turn to face X” feature in my Accessibility Features mod for visually impaired players that I’m working on.

That feature snaps the player’s ship to face the object by warping it to the same position but facing the target of the Turn To Face X command.

The warp function can be used to snap the player’s ship sideways - like a quick dodge.

Edit: Of course, it’ll need other gameplay mechanics (e.g. cool down or other limiting features). I think its best use as an escape feature, rather than as a combat feature. E.g. it’s pretty difficult to disengage from a tough fight. A quick dodge that requires shields and will deplete shields and then a cool down will give the player an opportunity to escape.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

WhiteFang
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by WhiteFang » Mon, 9. Aug 21, 05:06

Late edit - btw kuertee I tested your QOL Navigation Menu you are working on, well done indeed :)

I have a Thrustmaster Warthog, VKB Rudder pedals and TrackIr.

The method I am proposing is specifically for a Hotas and is already used in Evochron Legacy which focuses very much on dogfighting.

I believe pressing AND HOLDING DOWN a button for reverse boosting and another for forward boosting would not be intuitive nor fun. I did initially use a boost button in Evochron Legacy and in my personal view it very much pales by comparison.

There is more skill and more fun in strafing - Total time on target is increased and you are moving all the time.

This method for me completely does away with the strafing button which only simply snaps/angles the ship to face the target as you do an offset approach to a head-on jousting opponent. Instead with flight assist disabled and well timed use of frequent boosting (both forward and backwards) you can roll/wrap/skid (depending upon where you want to end up position-wise versus your target or keep going) around your target.

However boosting reduces shields so it isn't currently viable without that change also. Not only because you have no shields but you have no boost remaining in short order also.

kuertee
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Re: Questions about modding Dogfighting in 2 specific ways

Post by kuertee » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 13:05

WhiteFang wrote:
Mon, 9. Aug 21, 05:06
Late edit - btw kuertee I tested your QOL Navigation Menu you are working on, well done indeed :) ... The method I am proposing is specifically for a Hotas and is already used in Evochron Legacy which focuses very much on dogfighting.
hey thanks, I still have a bit to go with Accessibility Features mod. The last lot of releases was to only test whether the custom UI is both readable by the OCR and usable (efficiency, ease of use, etc.) accesibility-wise.

re: Evochron ... wow! I remember when that I was all I had (after Freelancer, etc., because of gaming rig limitations). I even created a minimalist HUD for it: https://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7809
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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