[wip] galactic council mod

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kuertee
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[wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Fri, 28. May 21, 11:25

Plans:
  • compatibility with the current faction logic code
  • council action: economic sanction
    limits to trades. remember that factions have unlimited credits.
    its better to penalise factions with trades by limiting ship movement to a station.
    • sector level: no trades for any wares in sector(s)
    • station level: no trades for any wares in station(s)
    • ware-sector level: no trades for ware(s) in sector(s)
  • council action (military): blockade
    • sector level: ships entering the sector will be attacked by the blockading ships.
      ensure negative relationship is not carried over to stations of the target faction nor to the faction itself.
    • station level: ships in the vicinity of the station will be attacked by the blockading ships.
      ensure negative relationship is not carried over to stations of the target faction nor to the faction itself.
  • council action (military): strike
    • sector level: ships and stations in the sector will be attacked.
    • station level: station and ships in its vicinity will be attacked.
    • ship level: the ship will be attacked.
      ensure negative relationship is not carried over to other ships, stations of the target faction nor to the faction itself.
  • alliances
    • economic sanctions: factions that don't support sanctions but have friendly relationships with the target will smuggle wares in and/or out.
      use cover system (?)
    • military actions: factions that support the blockade or strike will contribute to the coalition fleet
  • council meets every 7 hrs?
    i consider 1hr to be about an activity-day: the amount of different activities a merc would do in the X4 universe in a day.
  • actions lasts for 7hrs but can be extended at the next meeting
    7hrs should be sufficient for an action to effect a faction - regardless of their unlimited credits.
  • emergency meeting (?)
  • to ensure compatibility with other systems, probably use add relevant ships and stations to fake factions.
    then when the action's terms are complete or removed, return the ships and stations to their original factions.
  • player faction is or could become a member?
criticisms, ideas, offers of help are welcome.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

Mycu
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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Mycu » Sat, 29. May 21, 12:51

Sounds very interesting as sanctions, blockades or even punishments (strikes) should spice up gameplay - at same level as your crimes has consequences do with a success.

But main thing that is not clear for me from this brief description is the council itself:
  • how do council "meetings" would look like?
  • what are council decisions based on? what factors determinate that certain faction gets sanction/blockade/strike?
X3 AP 3.1 + XRM
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kuertee
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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Sun, 30. May 21, 04:36

Mycu wrote:
Sat, 29. May 21, 12:51
Sounds very interesting as sanctions, blockades or even punishments (strikes) should spice up gameplay - at same level as your crimes has consequences do with a success.

But main thing that is not clear for me from this brief description is the council itself:
  • how do council "meetings" would look like?
  • what are council decisions based on? what factors determinate that certain faction gets sanction/blockade/strike?
There'll be new UI menus, of course.
And council meetings would be presented as:
1. recommended council actions
2. factions votes for and against
3. player vote (?)
4. player recommended actions (?)
5. whether a recommended action passed/failed

Most actions would be triggered by territory intrusions of builds or large fleets.
Too many intrusions (into different regions: core, territory, frontier) may result in a council action.

Basically, the current faction logic code would perform as normal: factions build where ever and attack whatever their ai determines.
Then the council system will sit above that, determining if actions are "illegal" and require a galactic response or not.
Faction relationships with others would determine "illegality". It's very relative.

The current faction logic code is faction-centric.
The council system will be galactic-centric.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Mycu » Mon, 31. May 21, 17:56

Great, council in such shape gives a nice feeling of factions being something more organized and centralized than it is now.
Also I'm very curious how those actions could affect galaxy in a longer run.

It could be enhanced (in a future) with missions giving a player possibility to fabricate an evidence of some intrusion and giving possibility to weaken a faction.
Or by buying such fake evidence from pirates/black market.

Economic sanctions could also include longer production times for ships ordered by sanctioned faction in external wharfs/shipyards or even (if possible) halted / moved to end of production queue.
Another idea could be a rare, small change in the relationship between a sanctioned faction and another one that supported sanctions. Something like DeadAir's Dynamic Wars do nicely - i.e. after a faction is sanctioned, an event would appear indicating that the relationship between faction A and B has lowered by 3 because faction B supported the sanctions against A. Or conversely, it could improve by not supporting the sanctions.

Where would blockade ships come from? Would it be formed from a coalition fleet - ships donated by factions/player - and then relocated?

Entire idea sounds quite complex in a gameplay way but also in a "amount of work to be done" way.
Dunno if it's something that you've already started working on or just gather ideas and estimate the powers but I could help with this whenever my time and skills allow. Both code and testing wise.
X3 AP 3.1 + XRM
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kuertee
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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Wed, 2. Jun 21, 04:55

Excellent ideas - particularly, player missions.
I would like the player to affect inter-factional relationships more than with the player's production capabilities.

I've not done anything in the game yet. but I created a Trello for this mod with my ideas.
Basically, the mod will be based on casus belli between factions: https://trello.com/c/LiEewHb1/3-casus-belli
Of course, their relationship points can be considered to be their casus belli.
But I think those can be refined with the casus belli that I describe in that Trello card.

How this affects the game in the long run?
I imagine the factional relationships would see-saw.
But what interests me the most is a gameplay feature that would make the galaxy more semi-transparent with nuanced (but not invisible) interactions between the factions.

E.g.: I was thinking of converting the static war subscriptions to be more dynamic.
Currently, although the factions do go to war between themselves, the player has only a handful of options to participate in them: arg v xenon, arg v ho, p v ho, etc.
I know that the player can participate/support any factions in their wars outside those defined in the war subscriptions.
But those options are not sufficiently visible in-game.
(Also, I'm not referring to hand-holding the player through what is available to them.
I'm more interested in presenting those options through in-game mechanics.)
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by daBeschi » Wed, 2. Jun 21, 10:55

Hello,

What if the sector resources, sector position (number of connections and or super highway) are intentions for war? At the moment there is just a never ending war based on opinion. So for example HOP decides they want an ANT sector because it boarders terran space and they realy want the terran sectors. CB is to get strategic control over one sector and as soon as ANT is not able to recapture there sector for lets say 5 days, then war ends with HOP winning and they go back to just unfriendly. After that HOP can declare war on terran for resources, maybe.
After that the council can decide if HOP went to far and needs punishment or not (I have the EU4 aggressive expansion in mind). Based on that other factions can decide to ally against a grown threat.

I mean wars in X4 need more than just fighting till one is dead (paranid civil war is religious motivated and therefore a special case). Based on opinion the player can be asked to support the war and after winning/loosing relations are set back.

Just my 2 cents :roll:

Greetings

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Shuulo
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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Shuulo » Thu, 3. Jun 21, 19:57

very interested in how it will implemented.
Will you also allow some configuration connection custom mod factions to it?

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Sun, 6. Jun 21, 13:45

Definitely.

You also just made me think that, instead of making this work automatically with all economical factions, a specific list of factions that are allowed to join the council might be required. This should allow for “minor factions” or even factions that the council never acts against/for.

I already consider factions with their relationships locked negatively with the player as pirates (in my Crime Has Consequences mod). And, of course, the Khaak and Xenon will be left alone by the mod. These “minor factions” may be factions that are simply too weak to be further penalised by council actions. Etc.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 6. Jun 21, 16:30

kuertee wrote:
Sun, 6. Jun 21, 13:45
Definitely.

You also just made me think that, instead of making this work automatically with all economical factions, a specific list of factions that are allowed to join the council might be required. This should allow for “minor factions” or even factions that the council never acts against/for.

I already consider factions with their relationships locked negatively with the player as pirates (in my Crime Has Consequences mod). And, of course, the Khaak and Xenon will be left alone by the mod. These “minor factions” may be factions that are simply too weak to be further penalised by council actions. Etc.
sounds awesome, this is exactly what i hoped for, so will be able to adjust it with a patch for SWI mod. If you will need some testing with custom factions - let me know.
Do you also want to have some dynamic relations functionality in it? or any consideration IF/HOW it can work with mods that make relations dynamic? (e.g. DeadAir's dynamic factions). Relation change based on some political aspects would be quite immersive and awesome.
thanks for your work!

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by aurumgallente » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 13:31

I don't get it. What the reason will be to blockade some faction or remove blockade? How it should affect player?

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Mon, 21. Jun 21, 17:42

daBeschi wrote:
Wed, 2. Jun 21, 10:55
Hello...What if the sector resources, sector position (number of connections and or super highway) are intentions for war?
Can we generate these data at run-time? If so, that's a possible feature: giving sector resources an owner. I don't want to bake that in.
But, as I type this out, I think sector ownership would dictate that.
At the moment there is just a never ending war based on opinion. So for example HOP decides they want an ANT sector because it boarders terran space and they realy want the terran sectors. CB is to get strategic control over one sector and as soon as ANT is not able to recapture there sector for lets say 5 days, then war ends with HOP winning and they go back to just unfriendly. After that HOP can declare war on terran for resources, maybe. After that the council can decide if HOP went to far and needs punishment or not (I have the EU4 aggressive expansion in mind). Based on that other factions can decide to ally against a grown threat. I mean wars in X4 need more than just fighting till one is dead (paranid civil war is religious motivated and therefore a special case). Based on opinion the player can be asked to support the war and after winning/loosing relations are set back. Just my 2 cents :roll: Greetings
I think these are already handled by the current faction logic code (either from the base game or from one of the large mods), right?
My plan is for the CBs to generate a multi-faction action against one or more factions - i.e. alliances.
I don't want these CBs to build a faction's AI.
I'd like the current faction logic code to continue with what they do.

How would a council deal with warring factions? I dunno yet.
I suppose, when one faction is dragged into a war, the GC would pull their allies into the same war via a council action.
At the moment, a faction's attacks are focused on only their enemies - rather than coordinated with another faction, or so I think.
Do the factions coordinate their attacks against other factions?
aurumgallente wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 13:31
I don't get it. What the reason will be to blockade some faction or remove blockade?...
Casus belli (CB).
Currently, these are the planned events that affect CB could be: station built at (CB points based on where: core, territory, frontier), station destruction, ship destruction (CB points based on size of ship).
When enough CB is generated against a faction, a council action would be generated.
How it should affect player?
dunno yet. :D
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Sun, 25. Jul 21, 17:38

some images of my casus belli (cb) data collection:

PAR's cb with other factions: PAR's list of offences committed by HOP: HOP's cb with XEN:
Last edited by Terre on Sun, 25. Jul 21, 19:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 25. Jul 21, 21:53

hm, so killing ships gives more points towards CB? is there a way for factions to decrease number of CB points? as it seems currently that when factions start war they will not end it

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Mon, 26. Jul 21, 07:07

ahhh thank you! that's the sort of feedback i need.

i only got that UI just before posting it, so i didn't get the breakdown on the numbers until just then.

and, yes, you are correct. the CBs for ship destruction are too high, or the CBs for territory encroachment by stations too low.

i'll tweak it.

the numbers are quite interesting. i thought that the PAR and HOP (or the ARG and HOP) would be throwing themselves at each other.
but the ARG v ZYR, TEL v KHK, and the HOP v XEN wars are more prominent with high CBs.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 26. Jul 21, 15:09

kuertee wrote:
Mon, 26. Jul 21, 07:07
the numbers are quite interesting. i thought that the PAR and HOP (or the ARG and HOP) would be throwing themselves at each other.
but the ARG v ZYR, TEL v KHK, and the HOP v XEN wars are more prominent with high CBs.
I wonder why ARG vs ZYA are high, they have only one front to fight on.
Anyway, territory control and station destruction should be much more impactful than ships destruction.
CB points deduction with time is also something i would consider, to have the opportunity for ceasefire if no one can take territory/kill stations in long time. Kind of like war weariness, when no side can push enemy they need to stop fighting and re-organize/rebuild fleets.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by kuertee » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 22:16

well, these new 4.1 faction properties look interesting:

Code: Select all

    <property name="coalition" result="Coalition ID of this faction (null if not part of a coalition)" type="integer"/>
    <property name="iscoalitionally.{$faction}" result="true if both factions have and share the same coalition"/>
    <property name="iscoalitionenemy.{$faction}" result="true if both factions have a coalition but do not share the same coalition"/>
    <property name="teamname" result="Online team name of this faction" type="string"/>
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: [wip] galactic council mod

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 22:23

kuertee wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 22:16
well, these new 4.1 faction properties look interesting:

Code: Select all

    <property name="coalition" result="Coalition ID of this faction (null if not part of a coalition)" type="integer"/>
    <property name="iscoalitionally.{$faction}" result="true if both factions have and share the same coalition"/>
    <property name="iscoalitionenemy.{$faction}" result="true if both factions have a coalition but do not share the same coalition"/>
    <property name="teamname" result="Online team name of this faction" type="string"/>
those are for upcoming ventures MP thing, i think it refers to "guest" factions but we will see only with ventures DLC later, i wonder if its usable outside it

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