[MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

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scuderica8492
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by scuderica8492 » Fri, 28. May 21, 19:16

DeadAirRT wrote:
Fri, 28. May 21, 18:04
scuderica8492 wrote:
Fri, 28. May 21, 16:23
Thank you for great mod DeadAir.
I heard x4's performance is very dependent on total universe station number and ship counts, now question is, if you compare vanilla job and your DeadAir Job, which is more heavy for performance wise?
Usually I get 40-60FPS during early-mid game, but After I built shipyard and pumping out other factions ships, performance gradually drops to 20-30FPS average in vanilla job number.
Is it safe to install DeadAir job?
I did try to minimize the performance impact as much as I could, but there are still more ships than vanilla. It's nowhere near as heavy as DAGO was, but I think it may lead to unacceptable fps for you.

I'm still working on trying to refine both the ship and station count using deadair jobs, deadair ware, and deadair god. If I make any significant improvements on performance, I will be sure to make an announcement.
Thank you for clarifying! I'll use your mod without job, and see if I can handle the performance.
Cheers.

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Fri, 28. May 21, 19:28

scuderica8492 wrote:
Fri, 28. May 21, 19:16
Thank you for clarifying! I'll use your mod without job, and see if I can handle the performance.
Cheers.
Glad to help. Let me know how it goes, the more useful performance feedback I receive, the easier it is for me to adjust.

Most of the adjustments I make, I can only infer how it will perform on other computers.

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Fri, 28. May 21, 22:44

scuderica8492 wrote:
Fri, 28. May 21, 19:16
Thank you for clarifying! I'll use your mod without job, and see if I can handle the performance.
Cheers.
Just did a quick fps test on my computer to try and give a baseline for the current public versions. I started a new game, sat in my ship for 5 minutes while observing fps. Here are my specs and some caveats:
i9 9900k
RTX 2080ti
64.0gb ram @ 3200 mhz (I always thought I was running 3600 mhz lol)
Debug mode parameters - "-debug all -logfile debuglog.txt"

With all my mods: 14323 ships total // 94 fps - 100 fps
With all my mods EXCEPT jobs: 13112 ships total // 97 fps - 99 fps

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Sat, 29. May 21, 20:02

I need some feedback from whoever is using my AiTweaks. Are there any instances where you are still seeing ships not using travel drive when you think they should?

Phiolin
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by Phiolin » Sun, 30. May 21, 10:27

Not on my end. The only issue I have with travel drive usage is, that ships often seem to use travel drive for just a second or so when they are already close to their destination, which given the time it takes to actually spin up the travel drive, makes it potentially slower than if they would've just flown there without it - and it looks weird.
Basically when they get close they stop using travel drive, just to spin it up again immediately to continue travelling with travel drive for another second before again turning it off and sometimes repeating this a couple of times before they deem themselves close enough to just fly the remaining part of the way.

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Sun, 30. May 21, 18:45

Phiolin wrote:
Sun, 30. May 21, 10:27
Not on my end. The only issue I have with travel drive usage is, that ships often seem to use travel drive for just a second or so when they are already close to their destination, which given the time it takes to actually spin up the travel drive, makes it potentially slower than if they would've just flown there without it - and it looks weird.
Basically when they get close they stop using travel drive, just to spin it up again immediately to continue travelling with travel drive for another second before again turning it off and sometimes repeating this a couple of times before they deem themselves close enough to just fly the remaining part of the way.
I'm guessing it is mostly L/XL ships that this is noticeable with? I can fiddle with the distance calculation that my script forces as right now it's pretty low

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by Phiolin » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 07:22

DeadAirRT wrote:
Sun, 30. May 21, 18:45
Phiolin wrote:
Sun, 30. May 21, 10:27
Not on my end. The only issue I have with travel drive usage is, that ships often seem to use travel drive for just a second or so when they are already close to their destination, which given the time it takes to actually spin up the travel drive, makes it potentially slower than if they would've just flown there without it - and it looks weird.
Basically when they get close they stop using travel drive, just to spin it up again immediately to continue travelling with travel drive for another second before again turning it off and sometimes repeating this a couple of times before they deem themselves close enough to just fly the remaining part of the way.
I'm guessing it is mostly L/XL ships that this is noticeable with? I can fiddle with the distance calculation that my script forces as right now it's pretty low
Yes, I've only really noticed it on L/XL ships, that's right. I'm not sure what the distances are right now, but I believe it is no big thing if an L/XL ship has to fly the last 3-4km or so without travel drive, could even be a bit more realistic as if you are a station owner, you probably don't want your random XL carrier to drop right on top of your station at 5km/s or so. ;)

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Tue, 1. Jun 21, 18:21

Phiolin wrote:
Tue, 1. Jun 21, 07:22
DeadAirRT wrote:
Sun, 30. May 21, 18:45
Phiolin wrote:
Sun, 30. May 21, 10:27
Not on my end. The only issue I have with travel drive usage is, that ships often seem to use travel drive for just a second or so when they are already close to their destination, which given the time it takes to actually spin up the travel drive, makes it potentially slower than if they would've just flown there without it - and it looks weird.
Basically when they get close they stop using travel drive, just to spin it up again immediately to continue travelling with travel drive for another second before again turning it off and sometimes repeating this a couple of times before they deem themselves close enough to just fly the remaining part of the way.
I'm guessing it is mostly L/XL ships that this is noticeable with? I can fiddle with the distance calculation that my script forces as right now it's pretty low
Yes, I've only really noticed it on L/XL ships, that's right. I'm not sure what the distances are right now, but I believe it is no big thing if an L/XL ship has to fly the last 3-4km or so without travel drive, could even be a bit more realistic as if you are a station owner, you probably don't want your random XL carrier to drop right on top of your station at 5km/s or so. ;)
It was actually set for any movement beyond 10km should use travel drive or ship size * 5 (whichever was greater). I'll tweak it to see why it's happening

Kyez
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by Kyez » Sat, 5. Jun 21, 05:12

Hey, I'm loving your mods so far and I wanted to ask if the ware and fill mods are compatible with the economy overhaul mod here >(viewtopic.php?f=181&t=436267). Since it adds new materials for the terrans I'm not entirely sure myself.

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Sat, 5. Jun 21, 05:41

Kyez wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 05:12
Hey, I'm loving your mods so far and I wanted to ask if the ware and fill mods are compatible with the economy overhaul mod here >(viewtopic.php?f=181&t=436267). Since it adds new materials for the terrans I'm not entirely sure myself.
I haven't looked at that mod specifically but can probably give an answer based on how the author writes stuff.

Fill should be 100% compatible with no issues since it doesn't rely on any diffs to function.

Ware would likely have issues unless it is loaded first and even then, I'm not sure how much of my changes would be overwritten by EO. They affect a lot of the same things but my diffs are designed to work with mods before or after. Iirc, "economy overhaul" replaces vanilla modules with it's own so it would mess with my changes to ai station size (modules.xml) and would be incompatible with any added factions. Basically, I can't recommend using ware and that mod together.

kasan
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by kasan » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 00:20

As a member of Goonwaffe/Goonswarm/The Imperium, I fully appreciate that the Damarr use our home constellation as their space names (Even if you renamed T5Z as T5Y).

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 18:51

kasan wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 00:20
As a member of Goonwaffe/Goonswarm/The Imperium, I fully appreciate that the Damarr use our home constellation as their space names (Even if you renamed T5Z as T5Y).
Guess I read Dotlan wrong haha. Want me to make it so teladi mass huge numbers at the gate then just disperse without invading? Jk. I actually was in the ghetto of esoteria a few times until I won eve when the jump changes came in.

kasan
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by kasan » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 21:11

You'd have to get every faction to be in an alliance against Demarr and have them constantly lose a factory on the T5Z/Ianamus Zura VII gate!

djrygar
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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by djrygar » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 01:58

well, just some reporting and a question

To my surprise, DA God actually makes huge difference. I just made quite a long run (3 game days) and economy is keeping up despite FOWC xenons being set almost to the max (fighter wings just lowered to 2 and no apocalypse enabled). And that is without fill! It just works and no Economy Faction Enchancer! Great stuff.

It could be even better, if not for first 3 hours of game, when everyone starts shooting, and things go into feedback loops, teladi even destroyed Ministry of Finance equipment dock. 1/3 of economy vanishes because of that. But it recovers, if there is no xenon activity.

If I enable fill and FE on top of God, economy is so good that xenons just can't do anything, they are wiped out as soon as they poke out of their sectors. That was boring, so I disabled fill (also because it feels cheaty) and FE and things are still rolling anyway. So, after long fight, it seems you actually nailed it in the end. Works great.

and the question is about races. I am interested in checking how things would be without those additional factions. I like new sectors, I just would like them to be unclaimed and see what happens. Is there simple way of removing some files to get bunch of claimable sectors? (like those few in DA gate mod). What should I remove and what has to stay? Surely, I will have to look for new way of balancing economy, since those additional fabs from new factions seem to help alot.

there is something weird with sector (-2, 7), it looks like 2 sectors are overlapping or something, it has 2 names, one from vanilla (rhys defiance) and some code underneath that you gave. Hard to say exactly. Rhys is taken by xenon, but on map i see lots of Midatar fabs there and xenons don't touch them.

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 17:10

djrygar wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 01:58
well, just some reporting and a question

To my surprise, DA God actually makes huge difference. I just made quite a long run (3 game days) and economy is keeping up despite FOWC xenons being set almost to the max (fighter wings just lowered to 2 and no apocalypse enabled). And that is without fill! It just works and no Economy Faction Enchancer! Great stuff.

It could be even better, if not for first 3 hours of game, when everyone starts shooting, and things go into feedback loops, teladi even destroyed Ministry of Finance equipment dock. 1/3 of economy vanishes because of that. But it recovers, if there is no xenon activity.

If I enable fill and FE on top of God, economy is so good that xenons just can't do anything, they are wiped out as soon as they poke out of their sectors. That was boring, so I disabled fill (also because it feels cheaty) and FE and things are still rolling anyway. So, after long fight, it seems you actually nailed it in the end. Works great.

and the question is about races. I am interested in checking how things would be without those additional factions. I like new sectors, I just would like them to be unclaimed and see what happens. Is there simple way of removing some files to get bunch of claimable sectors? (like those few in DA gate mod). What should I remove and what has to stay? Surely, I will have to look for new way of balancing economy, since those additional fabs from new factions seem to help alot.

there is something weird with sector (-2, 7), it looks like 2 sectors are overlapping or something, it has 2 names, one from vanilla (rhys defiance) and some code underneath that you gave. Hard to say exactly. Rhys is taken by xenon, but on map i see lots of Midatar fabs there and xenons don't touch them.
I've been working on tweaks to prevent the escalating friendly fire but it's been a challenge to say the least. It is a flaw in the vanilla code that is exposed more when there is actually more complex relations.

I'm pretty sure I already fixed the overlapping sectors for dmi so check that you have the latest version.

To remove the factions themselves would require removing almost all the files but it is possible.

I'm glad that the economy is working well for you. I use fill but don't have it actually inject any resources. The best part of it for me is the ai getting some ship mods when they have resources removed.

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by djrygar » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 18:31

DeadAirRT wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 17:10
I've been working on tweaks to prevent the escalating friendly fire but it's been a challenge to say the least. It is a flaw in the vanilla code that is exposed more when there is actually more complex relations.
I dont think it is flaw in code, rather ES' CEO decision. People were complaining, that they are being attacked in neutral territory and punished for defending themselves for ages, same like with absurd reactions when you shoot friendly station. It is probably weird way of ensuring player is dragged into action, game design decision. Stupid, but they stick to it with passion (because fix seems quite banal from their side).

Another thing spotted is that missile components are now biggest blocker to pump new ships, at least in zya territory. Not really needing a fix, there will always be something lacking (and if not, there would be no room for player action). And lack of ore in universe. Plenty of hull fabs, not enough metals. I really miss your previous universe map with richer gas and mineral fields. I am still unsure if adding terrans was worth of loosing this great mod, layout was also more sensible/interesting than vanilla. Biggest flaw I see now even with your additional sectors is lack of strategic depth for xenons, they have just few sectors here and there, super easy to destroy or choke with single defence station.

There was mod here somewhere, that created random gate connections at gamestart, would be quite interesting to merge it with your gate mod :> When I start new game, I will look into such possibility (ie lots of unclaimed sectors with different connections in each game). This should allow factions to evolve in different ways each time. Should add more randomness/replayability.

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 16:13

djrygar wrote:
Tue, 8. Jun 21, 18:31
I can check the missile component production to try and balance it a bit more.

I've been using a personal rebalancing of resources personally but sadly it only really applies of new games from my understanding. The lack of being able to update values mid-game has kept me from testing thoroughly

Edit: regarding missile components, are you using vro?

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by djrygar » Thu, 10. Jun 21, 01:06

AH, yes, I do use VRO. Playing without VRO is a crime :). But I said, it is not such massive issue. Just my observation, something to look at if you will be fooling around with scripting.

just as a thought;
Have you considered something like this, instead of injecting wares trough fill, adding some small complexes / fab blueprints that consist of entire production chain, or large portion of it in case of high end products? Like, single ecells plant + single graphene + single ore + single hull. Effectively, it would work similarly to fill, but without cheaty feel to it. It reduces complexity, but not entirely. Transports still can be destroyed. one or two such small complexes for race for specific wares could be interesting solution.
From what I saw, complexes you created in God are large fabs of single wares with occasional additions (I am not sure if you added those secondary products or AI does it by itself trough some faction logic, I am watching things as I play, so I often look at things after long ingame time)

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by DeadAirRT » Thu, 10. Jun 21, 18:40

djrygar wrote:
Thu, 10. Jun 21, 01:06
AH, yes, I do use VRO. Playing without VRO is a crime :). But I said, it is not such massive issue. Just my observation, something to look at if you will be fooling around with scripting.

just as a thought;
Have you considered something like this, instead of injecting wares trough fill, adding some small complexes / fab blueprints that consist of entire production chain, or large portion of it in case of high end products? Like, single ecells plant + single graphene + single ore + single hull. Effectively, it would work similarly to fill, but without cheaty feel to it. It reduces complexity, but not entirely. Transports still can be destroyed. one or two such small complexes for race for specific wares could be interesting solution.
From what I saw, complexes you created in God are large fabs of single wares with occasional additions (I am not sure if you added those secondary products or AI does it by itself trough some faction logic, I am watching things as I play, so I often look at things after long ingame time)
The missile component shortages are from the recent rebalancing by vro. They went from completely overproduced to a massive shortage so you can guess why it's hard to find a good balance.

The secondary productions on stations are actually all from the ai which is expected. I try to balance the wares to have a slight shortage from their entire economy demand. It allows the ai to expand; it keeps good ware velocity (this is probably the wrong term but I basically want traders to keep busy with good traders of sufficient amounts) and price differences; and it allows the player to make an impact while not requiring intervention.

The reason I went with single product factories is that the AI is more efficient with them and the available methods for balancing multi production are poor. Modders have a single limit modifier for types of stations and the modules are determined by chance so it's very difficult to reliably control. Having more possible combinations of modules can lead to a problem where the game fails to generate a station because it doesn't know how to fit it all in the bounding box. Stations are the single biggest impact to performance from my testing; so I did everything I could to increase production capacity, reduce the amount of stations, and use changes that were highly compatible with other mods and mostly keeping the station calculator as a viable tool for users. I can go more in depth on my observations for AI handling of single product vs multi product stations if you are interested.

There are several reasons why I am not changing fill:
1) it is about as simple as it can be with as minimal performance impact.
2) it is compatible with basically everything the way it's written
3) it is customizable enough to meet the needs of everyone. You can disable injection or draining. You can change how often it occurs.
4) It is designed to assist the faction logic that handles the economy. They are supposed to adjust for shortages and over production but it takes time, like a lot of time. Fill helps to keep things moving and prevent the death spirals that occur with the economy.

Btw, the station composition changes are actually from ware. If you are interested in looking at the changes, it's specifically modules.xml.

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Re: [MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

Post by GDI-BOSS » Sat, 19. Jun 21, 20:58

Hi uygs i install deadairgte,deadairjobs,and deadairgod,same allways but now when start new game dont load your universe,im missing something?only load standard universe

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