[MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

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Mackan
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Mackan » Sun, 12. Apr 20, 19:44

zakaluka wrote:
Sun, 12. Apr 20, 15:51
This is such useful information.

The answer brings up another question. If each ship gets a portion of the credit - suppose I have a fleet with 1 battleship and 10 scout ships (1 hardpoint each - goal is to make an M count as "hard"). When we take out an M, does it count as "easy" because of the battleship? Or can the scouts still get credit for a hard kill?
The difficulty check currently in use is completely individual-based, so in your scenario the battleship would be credited an easy kill while the scouts would be credited a hard kill. :)

There's also a battle-wide difficulty check but it's not applied to anything.

razaron
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by razaron » Tue, 14. Apr 20, 18:14

How did you find the formula "basevalue * falloff^currentlevel"? I can't find anything like it in the game files.

Mackan
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Mackan » Tue, 14. Apr 20, 19:28

razaron wrote:
Tue, 14. Apr 20, 18:14
How did you find the formula "basevalue * falloff^currentlevel"? I can't find anything like it in the game files.
We don't have access to a formula but we can modify base and falloff, in libraries/experiences.xml.

The formula itself is just an extrapolation from data I got while playing with the falloff value and spam leveling a pilot tens of thousands of times with debug scripts.

Sirilius
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Sirilius » Tue, 14. Apr 20, 22:07

Mackan wrote:
Tue, 14. Apr 20, 19:28

We don't have access to a formula but we can modify base and falloff, in libraries/experiences.xml.

The formula itself is just an extrapolation from data I got while playing with the falloff value and spam leveling a pilot tens of thousands of times with debug scripts.
You're a true hero.

I wish Egosoft just made it clear how pilots actually level. Everything you've explain seems pretty good on paper but in practice requires way more tweaking.

Thanks for explaining it all :)

razaron
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by razaron » Tue, 14. Apr 20, 22:37

Mackan wrote:
Tue, 14. Apr 20, 19:28
razaron wrote:
Tue, 14. Apr 20, 18:14
How did you find the formula "basevalue * falloff^currentlevel"? I can't find anything like it in the game files.
We don't have access to a formula but we can modify base and falloff, in libraries/experiences.xml.

The formula itself is just an extrapolation from data I got while playing with the falloff value and spam leveling a pilot tens of thousands of times with debug scripts.
Thanks for doing the lords work. I was going to start playing without your mod then I found out about this formula... Egosofts concept of balance is interesting to say the least. Assuming 5 minutes per a "good trade" it would take 1000 hours to hit rank 9 and 1000000 to hit rank 15. Nice.

For now I'm going to tweak the values to what I consider "fair". Since you mentioned possibly eventually making this mod balanced you might find this spreadsheet interesting. https://1drv.ms/x/s!ArGARYAPed1eiFOUYV9 ... b?e=Hna9xP
The way I'm thinking of balancing it for myself is that it should never take longer than 25 hours to hit rank 9 and 400 hours (60h seta + 40h real) to hit rank 15, figuring out how long tasks take on average will be the hard bit.

Mackan
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Mackan » Wed, 15. Apr 20, 21:16

razaron wrote:
Tue, 14. Apr 20, 22:37
Thanks for doing the lords work. I was going to start playing without your mod then I found out about this formula... Egosofts concept of balance is interesting to say the least. Assuming 5 minutes per a "good trade" it would take 1000 hours to hit rank 9 and 1000000 to hit rank 15. Nice.

For now I'm going to tweak the values to what I consider "fair". Since you mentioned possibly eventually making this mod balanced you might find this spreadsheet interesting. https://1drv.ms/x/s!ArGARYAPed1eiFOUYV9 ... b?e=Hna9xP
The way I'm thinking of balancing it for myself is that it should never take longer than 25 hours to hit rank 9 and 400 hours (60h seta + 40h real) to hit rank 15, figuring out how long tasks take on average will be the hard bit.
Great sheet! Yeah, with the default values pilot leveling is essentially disabled beyond ~2 stars for most activities. As for balancing this mod, I'll probably base it around 4 stars being attainable and 5 stars being much much slower, to the point where you almost have to use seminars. Feels like the best compromise. Just haven't gotten around to it yet, got my attention whisked away while working on a crew academy mod. But I'm almost done with that, just have to finish up a t-file for it.

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StoneLegionYT
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by StoneLegionYT » Wed, 15. Apr 20, 21:21

To be Fair and this why Vanilla Thoughts at least no gameplay should ever be gated / considered based on SETA Usage. Seta is garbage to me I don't use it, but I feel in many ways were punished by it.

razaron
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by razaron » Sun, 19. Apr 20, 14:29

Mackan wrote:
Wed, 15. Apr 20, 21:16
Great sheet! Yeah, with the default values pilot leveling is essentially disabled beyond ~2 stars for most activities. As for balancing this mod, I'll probably base it around 4 stars being attainable and 5 stars being much much slower, to the point where you almost have to use seminars. Feels like the best compromise. Just haven't gotten around to it yet, got my attention whisked away while working on a crew academy mod. But I'm almost done with that, just have to finish up a t-file for it.
I'm a noob so I didn't consider it then someone in another thread mentioned how leveling is based on a distribution so I made a fun little sim for playing with said distributions, https://repl.it/repls/WorthwhileSmugProblems
I noticed that the only fallofs ES used are [0.21, 0.32, 0.43, 0.55, 0.68, 0.7, 0.83, 0.9]. So I just lazily bumped up the piloting fallofs 1-3 ES levels based off that leaving everything vanilla, other than the mining bug fix which you pointed out. An excemption being mining XP which I left as is, since in my head cannon pure miners should plateau early and the L mining fleet leaders would be ex-military like IRL.

I'm new to the X games so I haven't read any dev manifestos but it seems like the games are balanced aroung being single player MMOs with your PC being the server. Which is actually quite cool if it wasn't approaching summer :D

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Baconnaise
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Baconnaise » Wed, 22. Apr 20, 04:05

Thanks for the mod.

Is there an unpacked version of this mod? If not I'll grab the tool.

P.S. When did the whole thing start with packing mods? I noticed that almost all the mods that are newish (2020ish) or reboot of old are all packed/compressed. I recall a few peeps with Win7 having issues with some.

Mackan
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Mackan » Wed, 22. Apr 20, 15:55

Baconnaise wrote:
Wed, 22. Apr 20, 04:05
Thanks for the mod.

Is there an unpacked version of this mod? If not I'll grab the tool.

P.S. When did the whole thing start with packing mods? I noticed that almost all the mods that are newish (2020ish) or reboot of old are all packed/compressed. I recall a few peeps with Win7 having issues with some.
No, there's no unpacked version readily available.

Packing mods is a requirement for uploading to the Steam Workshop. For non-Steam versions, packaged mods make version controlling less of a headache for everyone involved as installing updates is just drag and drop for the end-user. With loose files you might run into issues unless you delete the old version first.

If you're planning to tweak the level rates yourself, be sure to check out razaron's posts in this thread for helpful tools!

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Baconnaise
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Baconnaise » Thu, 23. Apr 20, 09:59

Mackan wrote:
Wed, 22. Apr 20, 15:55
Baconnaise wrote:
Wed, 22. Apr 20, 04:05
Thanks for the mod.

Is there an unpacked version of this mod? If not I'll grab the tool.

P.S. When did the whole thing start with packing mods? I noticed that almost all the mods that are newish (2020ish) or reboot of old are all packed/compressed. I recall a few peeps with Win7 having issues with some.
No, there's no unpacked version readily available.

Packing mods is a requirement for uploading to the Steam Workshop. For non-Steam versions, packaged mods make version controlling less of a headache for everyone involved as installing updates is just drag and drop for the end-user. With loose files you might run into issues unless you delete the old version first.

If you're planning to tweak the level rates yourself, be sure to check out razaron's posts in this thread for helpful tools!
Thanks for pointing out that specific post. Yes, I generally tweak half the mods I install. X3 I don't recall doing it so much. Rebirth is the one where I started to just dive into the save and mods to try different things. Good times.

Osbot
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by Osbot » Tue, 5. Jan 21, 00:24

Great mod. It's a touch too fast for my liking though. I'm familiar with how to edit mods etc, what would you suggest I lower the falloff by to get your mod but about 50% as fast as it currently is, since it doesn't seem to be linear.

CommanderTM
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Re: [MOD] Faster Crew Leveling 0.15

Post by CommanderTM » Sun, 3. Oct 21, 14:17

This seems to not work on 4.10. When i switch on the mod, it will be off when i restart the game.

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