[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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Valhalla_Awaits
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Valhalla_Awaits » Tue, 3. May 22, 12:02

So I've been taking a closer look at capital ship balance in VRO today... It seems fairly good across the board until I look at Terrans. I don't know how on earth the developer here thinks those are balanced. A terran "FRIGATE" (The one with more than than 2 turrets) currently can kill any other faction's "BATTLESHIP" 1v1. And the better terran destroyer can just about kill two battleships. And the new terran battleship with the same firepower as... *Checks notes* 4 of the argon battleships makes even the Asgard it's whipping boy with "32" L class turrets. Now I completely understand that the Terrans are "supposed" to be the most advanced and overpowered faction, but this is supposed to be offset by making the ships much more expensive to build or have some other dire weakness to you know... "balance" them. Currently owning one of the new Terran turret capitals feels like I've enabled cheats in the game. Sure it's fun at first, but nothing can provide any challenge now. And the cost isn't matching up to the 300-1600% more power than any other ship of their respective class. A perfect example of the absurd imbalance is the Terran "Sapporo" battleship that with a max fit costs about 120m compared to the argon battleships 90m, but the terran battleships has "4X THE POWER" and can kill 2-3 of the argon battleships "AT THE SAME TIME".

You badly need to reduce the ABSURD number of turrets on these Terran god-ships. They can still have a few more than the other factions, but don't you think giving terrans upto """28 MORE""" L turrets per ship is REALLY freaking broken? Or give the other factions more turrets to match, OR make these terran god-ships cost an appropriate amount to balance their power?

VRO does an incredible job of balancing the game is just about every way... But it's like these were slapped onto it without even once being given a glancing look. They are cool ships, I like them a lot. But they completely break the game in the player's hands.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 3. May 22, 14:03

Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 12:02

VRO does an incredible job of balancing the game is just about every way... But it's like these were slapped onto it without even once being given a glancing look. They are cool ships, I like them a lot. But they completely break the game in the player's hands.
yeah, didnt have time to properly balance those after the update of main terran mod, will try to fix them in next patch

Sturmer
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Sturmer » Tue, 3. May 22, 14:28

Never used VRO before, but upon the promise of new ships I went to take a look. When I saw "Argon Titan" written my heart danced, that's my fav ship ever. Then I realized it's the ugly-ass mofo from X2 (I started in this series with X2, but holy crap those ships are ugly nowadays xD). :(

Any chance for an X3TC Titan at any point?
Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 12:02
So I've been taking a closer look at capital ship balance in VRO today... It seems fairly good across the board until I look at Terrans. I don't know how on earth the developer here thinks those are balanced. A terran "FRIGATE" (The one with more than than 2 turrets) currently can kill any other faction's "BATTLESHIP" 1v1. And the better terran destroyer can just about kill two battleships. And the new terran battleship with the same firepower as... *Checks notes* 4 of the argon battleships makes even the Asgard it's whipping boy with "32" L class turrets. Now I completely understand that the Terrans are "supposed" to be the most advanced and overpowered faction, but this is supposed to be offset by making the ships much more expensive to build or have some other dire weakness to you know... "balance" them. Currently owning one of the new Terran turret capitals feels like I've enabled cheats in the game. Sure it's fun at first, but nothing can provide any challenge now. And the cost isn't matching up to the 300-1600% more power than any other ship of their respective class. A perfect example of the absurd imbalance is the Terran "Sapporo" battleship that with a max fit costs about 120m compared to the argon battleships 90m, but the terran battleships has "4X THE POWER" and can kill 2-3 of the argon battleships "AT THE SAME TIME".

You badly need to reduce the ABSURD number of turrets on these Terran god-ships. They can still have a few more than the other factions, but don't you think giving terrans upto """28 MORE""" L turrets per ship is REALLY freaking broken? Or give the other factions more turrets to match, OR make these terran god-ships cost an appropriate amount to balance their power?
Dayum... "Balance" lmao. Was thinking of doing a new playthrough with VRO, but no way if Terrans are so broken.

siath70
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by siath70 » Tue, 3. May 22, 14:37

Sturmer wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 14:28
Never used VRO before, but upon the promise of new ships I went to take a look. When I saw "Argon Titan" written my heart danced, that's my fav ship ever. Then I realized it's the ugly-ass mofo from X2 (I started in this series with X2, but holy crap those ships are ugly nowadays xD). :(

Any chance for an X3TC Titan at any point?
Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 12:02
So I've been taking a closer look at capital ship balance in VRO today... It seems fairly good across the board until I look at Terrans. I don't know how on earth the developer here thinks those are balanced. A terran "FRIGATE" (The one with more than than 2 turrets) currently can kill any other faction's "BATTLESHIP" 1v1. And the better terran destroyer can just about kill two battleships. And the new terran battleship with the same firepower as... *Checks notes* 4 of the argon battleships makes even the Asgard it's whipping boy with "32" L class turrets. Now I completely understand that the Terrans are "supposed" to be the most advanced and overpowered faction, but this is supposed to be offset by making the ships much more expensive to build or have some other dire weakness to you know... "balance" them. Currently owning one of the new Terran turret capitals feels like I've enabled cheats in the game. Sure it's fun at first, but nothing can provide any challenge now. And the cost isn't matching up to the 300-1600% more power than any other ship of their respective class. A perfect example of the absurd imbalance is the Terran "Sapporo" battleship that with a max fit costs about 120m compared to the argon battleships 90m, but the terran battleships has "4X THE POWER" and can kill 2-3 of the argon battleships "AT THE SAME TIME".

You badly need to reduce the ABSURD number of turrets on these Terran god-ships. They can still have a few more than the other factions, but don't you think giving terrans upto """28 MORE""" L turrets per ship is REALLY freaking broken? Or give the other factions more turrets to match, OR make these terran god-ships cost an appropriate amount to balance their power?
Dayum... "Balance" lmao. Was thinking of doing a new playthrough with VRO, but no way if Terrans are so broken.
They are pretty unbalanced, but then again with the mods I use so are the Xenon, dunno if it's part of the VRO mod. But the xenon get some pretty hard hitting ships, their battle ship for example makes the Terran look like toys. So, for now I'll take the "OP" terran ships just so I have a chance against the xenon. If anything I think it would be nice to see the other factions gain a few OP ships to help them from getting run over by the xenon.

Also want to make them not so OP, use a mod like I use called drone variety. It puts missile/HVY drones in and the AI are not afraid to use them. I currently enjoy the game the way it is, if you do a balance pass maybe do a small patch that does the opposite and leave the terran alone while boosting a few of the other races ships to be a bit more inline with the Terrans.

In my opinion you can balance it either way.

Valhalla_Awaits
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Valhalla_Awaits » Thu, 5. May 22, 06:52

siath70 wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 14:37
Sturmer wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 14:28
Never used VRO before, but upon the promise of new ships I went to take a look. When I saw "Argon Titan" written my heart danced, that's my fav ship ever. Then I realized it's the ugly-ass mofo from X2 (I started in this series with X2, but holy crap those ships are ugly nowadays xD). :(

Any chance for an X3TC Titan at any point?
Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 12:02
So I've been taking a closer look at capital ship balance in VRO today... It seems fairly good across the board until I look at Terrans. I don't know how on earth the developer here thinks those are balanced. A terran "FRIGATE" (The one with more than than 2 turrets) currently can kill any other faction's "BATTLESHIP" 1v1. And the better terran destroyer can just about kill two battleships. And the new terran battleship with the same firepower as... *Checks notes* 4 of the argon battleships makes even the Asgard it's whipping boy with "32" L class turrets. Now I completely understand that the Terrans are "supposed" to be the most advanced and overpowered faction, but this is supposed to be offset by making the ships much more expensive to build or have some other dire weakness to you know... "balance" them. Currently owning one of the new Terran turret capitals feels like I've enabled cheats in the game. Sure it's fun at first, but nothing can provide any challenge now. And the cost isn't matching up to the 300-1600% more power than any other ship of their respective class. A perfect example of the absurd imbalance is the Terran "Sapporo" battleship that with a max fit costs about 120m compared to the argon battleships 90m, but the terran battleships has "4X THE POWER" and can kill 2-3 of the argon battleships "AT THE SAME TIME".

You badly need to reduce the ABSURD number of turrets on these Terran god-ships. They can still have a few more than the other factions, but don't you think giving terrans upto """28 MORE""" L turrets per ship is REALLY freaking broken? Or give the other factions more turrets to match, OR make these terran god-ships cost an appropriate amount to balance their power?
Dayum... "Balance" lmao. Was thinking of doing a new playthrough with VRO, but no way if Terrans are so broken.
They are pretty unbalanced, but then again with the mods I use so are the Xenon, dunno if it's part of the VRO mod. But the xenon get some pretty hard hitting ships, their battle ship for example makes the Terran look like toys. So, for now I'll take the "OP" terran ships just so I have a chance against the xenon. If anything I think it would be nice to see the other factions gain a few OP ships to help them from getting run over by the xenon.

Also want to make them not so OP, use a mod like I use called drone variety. It puts missile/HVY drones in and the AI are not afraid to use them. I currently enjoy the game the way it is, if you do a balance pass maybe do a small patch that does the opposite and leave the terran alone while boosting a few of the other races ships to be a bit more inline with the Terrans.

In my opinion you can balance it either way.
Your struggling with xenon I's? It's definitely not this mod doing it. Granted VRO does indeed buff the I's turret coverage and range. But I've seen an argon battleship go toe to toe with one, and the xenon I only had half hull left by the end when it won, meanwhile... the terran battleship can kill TWO argon battleships and have a coin toss to see if it wins against a third one. If you want the game THAT easy, just go ahead and use the cheat console.

PS: Glad to hear these ships will get a much needed balance pass. Heck you can even leave the two destroyers and the battleship as-is, just make them 2.5-3x as expensive to balance them. But the frigate is going to need a nerfbat the size of a telephone pole, as a frigate shouldn't be on-par with the firepower of a battleship.

siath70
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by siath70 » Thu, 5. May 22, 13:51

Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Thu, 5. May 22, 06:52
siath70 wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 14:37
Sturmer wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 14:28
Never used VRO before, but upon the promise of new ships I went to take a look. When I saw "Argon Titan" written my heart danced, that's my fav ship ever. Then I realized it's the ugly-ass mofo from X2 (I started in this series with X2, but holy crap those ships are ugly nowadays xD). :(

Any chance for an X3TC Titan at any point?



Dayum... "Balance" lmao. Was thinking of doing a new playthrough with VRO, but no way if Terrans are so broken.
They are pretty unbalanced, but then again with the mods I use so are the Xenon, dunno if it's part of the VRO mod. But the xenon get some pretty hard hitting ships, their battle ship for example makes the Terran look like toys. So, for now I'll take the "OP" terran ships just so I have a chance against the xenon. If anything I think it would be nice to see the other factions gain a few OP ships to help them from getting run over by the xenon.

Also want to make them not so OP, use a mod like I use called drone variety. It puts missile/HVY drones in and the AI are not afraid to use them. I currently enjoy the game the way it is, if you do a balance pass maybe do a small patch that does the opposite and leave the terran alone while boosting a few of the other races ships to be a bit more inline with the Terrans.

In my opinion you can balance it either way.
Your struggling with xenon I's? It's definitely not this mod doing it. Granted VRO does indeed buff the I's turret coverage and range. But I've seen an argon battleship go toe to toe with one, and the xenon I only had half hull left by the end when it won, meanwhile... the terran battleship can kill TWO argon battleships and have a coin toss to see if it wins against a third one. If you want the game THAT easy, just go ahead and use the cheat console.

PS: Glad to hear these ships will get a much needed balance pass. Heck you can even leave the two destroyers and the battleship as-is, just make them 2.5-3x as expensive to balance them. But the frigate is going to need a nerfbat the size of a telephone pole, as a frigate shouldn't be on-par with the firepower of a battleship.
I mean the reverse is also true, if your game is that EASY, maybe you should look into some mods to buff the Xenon and pull the ones that nerf them...

I have not seen what you say, in my games the I's run over every other ship unless they're out numbered, this included the fighters helping. I have seen an I completely walk over a Terran battleship force. I have also seen a Tokyo stand toe to toe with an I for a very long time before losing, I have seen Aamon and such walk all over most if not all the Terran ships, I think they need a nerf too... Look at the Basilisk, if it's fighters well tell them good bye, maybe it should get nerfed as it decimated fighters and gunboats and such. I mean I am such everyone has their IDEA of what their game should be like and what they enjoy. As such we're all allowed to have an opinion about such things, at the end of the day it is the mod authors choice what to do.

IMHO if anything the other ships for the other factions need a slight buff. Almost every game I have played has the Xenon taking over everything. The only saving grace is the Terrans, who end up playing back and forth with the Xenon in Getsu Fune. I am talking multiple games not just one or two, but many. Oh and this is all with a mod that increases the cost of Xenon ship to make the building of them slower so you don't get swarmed right off the bat.

You might not like the balance, and the mods you play with might be way different than the mods I play with. Which makes what you experience much different than what I experience.

I like the way it is now, I would like to see the other factions get a small boost to their ships to help against the Terrans. I agree the Terrans are much more powerful that the other factions, that is all but the Xenon.

Options are not a bad thing, if you adjust the ships and nerf them then I ask you to make a small patch or side mod that leaves them like they are.

Swinging a nerf bat at everything isn't always the answer, sometimes it's a fact that other things might need a buff instead. Game companies have a real bad habit of nerf this and nerf that, well that didn't work so we'll buff this and nerf the original thing we were trying to balance against.

Let's nerf the Terran, wait the Argons ships are out of line now, we'll we can nerf those, oh wait the Paranid, nerf them too. The Xenon are walking over everything now, hold on lets buff the other races and nerf the Xenon some...
Instead of hey just go through and buff the other races BB and such to be on par with the Terrans, if the Xenon become toys well start buffing them a bit until it's balanced.

What I am asking is, I like the way it is now, if you do nerf the Terrans can we get a small patch that lets us keep it the way it was pre nerf?

Again I like the mod the way it is, with the other mods I have the AI has a hard time holding the Xenon back and slowly lose ground unless you the player support them.

Valhalla_Awaits
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun, 24. Apr 22, 04:07
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Valhalla_Awaits » Fri, 6. May 22, 05:33

siath70 wrote:
Thu, 5. May 22, 13:51
Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Thu, 5. May 22, 06:52
siath70 wrote:
Tue, 3. May 22, 14:37


They are pretty unbalanced, but then again with the mods I use so are the Xenon, dunno if it's part of the VRO mod. But the xenon get some pretty hard hitting ships, their battle ship for example makes the Terran look like toys. So, for now I'll take the "OP" terran ships just so I have a chance against the xenon. If anything I think it would be nice to see the other factions gain a few OP ships to help them from getting run over by the xenon.

Also want to make them not so OP, use a mod like I use called drone variety. It puts missile/HVY drones in and the AI are not afraid to use them. I currently enjoy the game the way it is, if you do a balance pass maybe do a small patch that does the opposite and leave the terran alone while boosting a few of the other races ships to be a bit more inline with the Terrans.

In my opinion you can balance it either way.
Your struggling with xenon I's? It's definitely not this mod doing it. Granted VRO does indeed buff the I's turret coverage and range. But I've seen an argon battleship go toe to toe with one, and the xenon I only had half hull left by the end when it won, meanwhile... the terran battleship can kill TWO argon battleships and have a coin toss to see if it wins against a third one. If you want the game THAT easy, just go ahead and use the cheat console.

PS: Glad to hear these ships will get a much needed balance pass. Heck you can even leave the two destroyers and the battleship as-is, just make them 2.5-3x as expensive to balance them. But the frigate is going to need a nerfbat the size of a telephone pole, as a frigate shouldn't be on-par with the firepower of a battleship.
I mean the reverse is also true, if your game is that EASY, maybe you should look into some mods to buff the Xenon and pull the ones that nerf them...

I have not seen what you say, in my games the I's run over every other ship unless they're out numbered, this included the fighters helping. I have seen an I completely walk over a Terran battleship force. I have also seen a Tokyo stand toe to toe with an I for a very long time before losing, I have seen Aamon and such walk all over most if not all the Terran ships, I think they need a nerf too... Look at the Basilisk, if it's fighters well tell them good bye, maybe it should get nerfed as it decimated fighters and gunboats and such. I mean I am such everyone has their IDEA of what their game should be like and what they enjoy. As such we're all allowed to have an opinion about such things, at the end of the day it is the mod authors choice what to do.

IMHO if anything the other ships for the other factions need a slight buff. Almost every game I have played has the Xenon taking over everything. The only saving grace is the Terrans, who end up playing back and forth with the Xenon in Getsu Fune. I am talking multiple games not just one or two, but many. Oh and this is all with a mod that increases the cost of Xenon ship to make the building of them slower so you don't get swarmed right off the bat.

You might not like the balance, and the mods you play with might be way different than the mods I play with. Which makes what you experience much different than what I experience.

I like the way it is now, I would like to see the other factions get a small boost to their ships to help against the Terrans. I agree the Terrans are much more powerful that the other factions, that is all but the Xenon.

Options are not a bad thing, if you adjust the ships and nerf them then I ask you to make a small patch or side mod that leaves them like they are.

Swinging a nerf bat at everything isn't always the answer, sometimes it's a fact that other things might need a buff instead. Game companies have a real bad habit of nerf this and nerf that, well that didn't work so we'll buff this and nerf the original thing we were trying to balance against.

Let's nerf the Terran, wait the Argons ships are out of line now, we'll we can nerf those, oh wait the Paranid, nerf them too. The Xenon are walking over everything now, hold on lets buff the other races and nerf the Xenon some...
Instead of hey just go through and buff the other races BB and such to be on par with the Terrans, if the Xenon become toys well start buffing them a bit until it's balanced.

What I am asking is, I like the way it is now, if you do nerf the Terrans can we get a small patch that lets us keep it the way it was pre nerf?

Again I like the mod the way it is, with the other mods I have the AI has a hard time holding the Xenon back and slowly lose ground unless you the player support them.
I do in fact use multiple mods to make the xenon pose something of a threat. VRO for better xenon ships and weapons, and faction enhancer so they actually swarm into system instead of dribble into an xenon blender. Even with both of these, xenon are still kind of a joke most of the time, and I could easily wipe them all out after about 20-30h of playtime if I wanted. The very few mods that make the xenon not a joke, also tend to swing them the other direction, making them wipe the game in under 15h, before the player can have enough economy to wage war back. However if as a player you started with a 30h economy, the xenon have already lost (as has any faction) at that point.

Not sure why your seeing so many I's. They are a semi-rare sight usually. But they are incredibly easy to kill as a player, any corvette, sneak up behind it, remove it's pitiful rear turrets, move in a bit, strip the engines, and its now a floating bullseye you can either ignore till it dies, or finish stripping guns so any patrol ship can finish it off. Or kill it yourself, as any corvette has the damage to do it eventually.

I think we can agree that races other than the xenon and terrans badly need some love. Other races just have really weak ships with very few guns. A battleship having 6 L turrets and no main guns should be a literal crime.

And finally I have to 100% disagree with you on a fundamental level about not nerfing the terran mega-ships. Mind you I'm ONLY talking about the 4 new overpowered ones, not the old ones from vanilla. They BREAK THE GAME. Xenon are not overpowered whatsoever right now, but those terran ships sure as hell are. You have a FRIGATE class ship than can kill another factions BATTLESHIP. Please show me the xenon equivalent of that. I'll wait.

siath70
Posts: 459
Joined: Sun, 11. Jan 04, 03:03
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by siath70 » Fri, 6. May 22, 15:56

Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Fri, 6. May 22, 05:33
siath70 wrote:
Thu, 5. May 22, 13:51
Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Thu, 5. May 22, 06:52


Your struggling with xenon I's? It's definitely not this mod doing it. Granted VRO does indeed buff the I's turret coverage and range. But I've seen an argon battleship go toe to toe with one, and the xenon I only had half hull left by the end when it won, meanwhile... the terran battleship can kill TWO argon battleships and have a coin toss to see if it wins against a third one. If you want the game THAT easy, just go ahead and use the cheat console.

PS: Glad to hear these ships will get a much needed balance pass. Heck you can even leave the two destroyers and the battleship as-is, just make them 2.5-3x as expensive to balance them. But the frigate is going to need a nerfbat the size of a telephone pole, as a frigate shouldn't be on-par with the firepower of a battleship.
I mean the reverse is also true, if your game is that EASY, maybe you should look into some mods to buff the Xenon and pull the ones that nerf them...

I have not seen what you say, in my games the I's run over every other ship unless they're out numbered, this included the fighters helping. I have seen an I completely walk over a Terran battleship force. I have also seen a Tokyo stand toe to toe with an I for a very long time before losing, I have seen Aamon and such walk all over most if not all the Terran ships, I think they need a nerf too... Look at the Basilisk, if it's fighters well tell them good bye, maybe it should get nerfed as it decimated fighters and gunboats and such. I mean I am such everyone has their IDEA of what their game should be like and what they enjoy. As such we're all allowed to have an opinion about such things, at the end of the day it is the mod authors choice what to do.

IMHO if anything the other ships for the other factions need a slight buff. Almost every game I have played has the Xenon taking over everything. The only saving grace is the Terrans, who end up playing back and forth with the Xenon in Getsu Fune. I am talking multiple games not just one or two, but many. Oh and this is all with a mod that increases the cost of Xenon ship to make the building of them slower so you don't get swarmed right off the bat.

You might not like the balance, and the mods you play with might be way different than the mods I play with. Which makes what you experience much different than what I experience.

I like the way it is now, I would like to see the other factions get a small boost to their ships to help against the Terrans. I agree the Terrans are much more powerful that the other factions, that is all but the Xenon.

Options are not a bad thing, if you adjust the ships and nerf them then I ask you to make a small patch or side mod that leaves them like they are.

Swinging a nerf bat at everything isn't always the answer, sometimes it's a fact that other things might need a buff instead. Game companies have a real bad habit of nerf this and nerf that, well that didn't work so we'll buff this and nerf the original thing we were trying to balance against.

Let's nerf the Terran, wait the Argons ships are out of line now, we'll we can nerf those, oh wait the Paranid, nerf them too. The Xenon are walking over everything now, hold on lets buff the other races and nerf the Xenon some...
Instead of hey just go through and buff the other races BB and such to be on par with the Terrans, if the Xenon become toys well start buffing them a bit until it's balanced.

What I am asking is, I like the way it is now, if you do nerf the Terrans can we get a small patch that lets us keep it the way it was pre nerf?

Again I like the mod the way it is, with the other mods I have the AI has a hard time holding the Xenon back and slowly lose ground unless you the player support them.
I do in fact use multiple mods to make the xenon pose something of a threat. VRO for better xenon ships and weapons, and faction enhancer so they actually swarm into system instead of dribble into an xenon blender. Even with both of these, xenon are still kind of a joke most of the time, and I could easily wipe them all out after about 20-30h of playtime if I wanted. The very few mods that make the xenon not a joke, also tend to swing them the other direction, making them wipe the game in under 15h, before the player can have enough economy to wage war back. However if as a player you started with a 30h economy, the xenon have already lost (as has any faction) at that point.

Not sure why your seeing so many I's. They are a semi-rare sight usually. But they are incredibly easy to kill as a player, any corvette, sneak up behind it, remove it's pitiful rear turrets, move in a bit, strip the engines, and its now a floating bullseye you can either ignore till it dies, or finish stripping guns so any patrol ship can finish it off. Or kill it yourself, as any corvette has the damage to do it eventually.

I think we can agree that races other than the xenon and terrans badly need some love. Other races just have really weak ships with very few guns. A battleship having 6 L turrets and no main guns should be a literal crime.

And finally I have to 100% disagree with you on a fundamental level about not nerfing the terran mega-ships. Mind you I'm ONLY talking about the 4 new overpowered ones, not the old ones from vanilla. They BREAK THE GAME. Xenon are not overpowered whatsoever right now, but those terran ships sure as hell are. You have a FRIGATE class ship than can kill another factions BATTLESHIP. Please show me the xenon equivalent of that. I'll wait.
Well I don't know what 'I' your talking about, I must have a mod that makes the 'I' not a joke. Because you don't just sneak up behind this one in my game, it has more turrets than any other ship in the game and they are everywhere, including the back. In my game it eats anything that gets near it for breakfast, including defense platforms. Then only way to win against it is to throw multiple BBs and ships at it, even better catch it while it's fighting a station and do that. Expect to lose a few ships (bbs) in the process though.

I have used one of these OP Terran cruisers that kills anything and everything and watch it die horribly to an I or multiple BBs.

Again everyone's games are different, you want those ships nerfed, great! I hope he does so for you. I want a patch to keep those ships the way they are and maybe bring the other races ships up to par. I hate to watch stuff get nerfed over and over. Eventually we will have everything running around with one gun and one shield to make it fair. The Terrans are supposed to be the ultimate bad asses, their ships are supposed to be strong according to lore.

You're arguing with me about my game which is modded differently than your game. I say the this is happening in my game and you argue it isn't. You have no idea what is going on in my game. I'm not saying don't nerf stuff, I am saying give me a patch to keep my game the way it is before nerf and consider boosting the other races ships some (they need it). Yet you argue with me about my game and how it's playing out.

I honestly do not get it, what is so offensive to you that I ask for a patch to keep the game the way I like it (get it the way I LIKE it) that you have to argue about me asking to a patch to keep thing the same as it is right now (the Terran ships that is)? I want other ships buffed, I just want the option to keep the terrans the way they are, change them and then release a patch that reverts those changes for those of us who want them the way they are, just those ships.

The I in my game has 20 Large and 20 med turrets, including missiles, the shields are better if not on par with the strongest of the BB ships in the game. The way it is designed there is no sneak up behind it and thump it like any other Xenon ship, who ever did the turrets on the I made sure you get a face full no matter where you sit. Oh and all the weapons are buffed in my game, they have longer ranges and new weapon types.

I can kill any races BB in any frigate in the game myself, you can not compare the AI to a player controlling the ship. Any ship in the game can become OP in the players hands.

So again I'll say this, I would like a patch to keep any changes to the Terrans the way they are. I would actually like to see the other races get some love and some of their ships buffed to give them help against the Xenon.

Oh, I use SVE as one of my mods btw.

Thanks!

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 8. May 22, 16:39

Patch 3.3.6
This is a minor patch to fix outstanding issues and make it possible to upload to steam. (mod was too large for workshop, converting sounds to OGG helped to reduce it)

- Rebalance of Terran cruisers, should not be OP now.
- You can now again buy old Paranid ships as it seems some missions still request them from player.
- Fixed incorrect costs for some S and M guns and turrets
- Fixed paranid tri-beam turret preventing player from walking on ships bridge
- Other minor fixes here and there

Valhalla_Awaits
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Valhalla_Awaits » Mon, 9. May 22, 09:17

siath70 wrote:
Fri, 6. May 22, 15:56
Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Fri, 6. May 22, 05:33
siath70 wrote:
Thu, 5. May 22, 13:51

I mean the reverse is also true, if your game is that EASY, maybe you should look into some mods to buff the Xenon and pull the ones that nerf them...

I have not seen what you say, in my games the I's run over every other ship unless they're out numbered, this included the fighters helping. I have seen an I completely walk over a Terran battleship force. I have also seen a Tokyo stand toe to toe with an I for a very long time before losing, I have seen Aamon and such walk all over most if not all the Terran ships, I think they need a nerf too... Look at the Basilisk, if it's fighters well tell them good bye, maybe it should get nerfed as it decimated fighters and gunboats and such. I mean I am such everyone has their IDEA of what their game should be like and what they enjoy. As such we're all allowed to have an opinion about such things, at the end of the day it is the mod authors choice what to do.

IMHO if anything the other ships for the other factions need a slight buff. Almost every game I have played has the Xenon taking over everything. The only saving grace is the Terrans, who end up playing back and forth with the Xenon in Getsu Fune. I am talking multiple games not just one or two, but many. Oh and this is all with a mod that increases the cost of Xenon ship to make the building of them slower so you don't get swarmed right off the bat.

You might not like the balance, and the mods you play with might be way different than the mods I play with. Which makes what you experience much different than what I experience.

I like the way it is now, I would like to see the other factions get a small boost to their ships to help against the Terrans. I agree the Terrans are much more powerful that the other factions, that is all but the Xenon.

Options are not a bad thing, if you adjust the ships and nerf them then I ask you to make a small patch or side mod that leaves them like they are.

Swinging a nerf bat at everything isn't always the answer, sometimes it's a fact that other things might need a buff instead. Game companies have a real bad habit of nerf this and nerf that, well that didn't work so we'll buff this and nerf the original thing we were trying to balance against.

Let's nerf the Terran, wait the Argons ships are out of line now, we'll we can nerf those, oh wait the Paranid, nerf them too. The Xenon are walking over everything now, hold on lets buff the other races and nerf the Xenon some...
Instead of hey just go through and buff the other races BB and such to be on par with the Terrans, if the Xenon become toys well start buffing them a bit until it's balanced.

What I am asking is, I like the way it is now, if you do nerf the Terrans can we get a small patch that lets us keep it the way it was pre nerf?

Again I like the mod the way it is, with the other mods I have the AI has a hard time holding the Xenon back and slowly lose ground unless you the player support them.
I do in fact use multiple mods to make the xenon pose something of a threat. VRO for better xenon ships and weapons, and faction enhancer so they actually swarm into system instead of dribble into an xenon blender. Even with both of these, xenon are still kind of a joke most of the time, and I could easily wipe them all out after about 20-30h of playtime if I wanted. The very few mods that make the xenon not a joke, also tend to swing them the other direction, making them wipe the game in under 15h, before the player can have enough economy to wage war back. However if as a player you started with a 30h economy, the xenon have already lost (as has any faction) at that point.

Not sure why your seeing so many I's. They are a semi-rare sight usually. But they are incredibly easy to kill as a player, any corvette, sneak up behind it, remove it's pitiful rear turrets, move in a bit, strip the engines, and its now a floating bullseye you can either ignore till it dies, or finish stripping guns so any patrol ship can finish it off. Or kill it yourself, as any corvette has the damage to do it eventually.

I think we can agree that races other than the xenon and terrans badly need some love. Other races just have really weak ships with very few guns. A battleship having 6 L turrets and no main guns should be a literal crime.

And finally I have to 100% disagree with you on a fundamental level about not nerfing the terran mega-ships. Mind you I'm ONLY talking about the 4 new overpowered ones, not the old ones from vanilla. They BREAK THE GAME. Xenon are not overpowered whatsoever right now, but those terran ships sure as hell are. You have a FRIGATE class ship than can kill another factions BATTLESHIP. Please show me the xenon equivalent of that. I'll wait.
Well I don't know what 'I' your talking about, I must have a mod that makes the 'I' not a joke. Because you don't just sneak up behind this one in my game, it has more turrets than any other ship in the game and they are everywhere, including the back. In my game it eats anything that gets near it for breakfast, including defense platforms. Then only way to win against it is to throw multiple BBs and ships at it, even better catch it while it's fighting a station and do that. Expect to lose a few ships (bbs) in the process though.

I have used one of these OP Terran cruisers that kills anything and everything and watch it die horribly to an I or multiple BBs.

Again everyone's games are different, you want those ships nerfed, great! I hope he does so for you. I want a patch to keep those ships the way they are and maybe bring the other races ships up to par. I hate to watch stuff get nerfed over and over. Eventually we will have everything running around with one gun and one shield to make it fair. The Terrans are supposed to be the ultimate bad asses, their ships are supposed to be strong according to lore.

You're arguing with me about my game which is modded differently than your game. I say the this is happening in my game and you argue it isn't. You have no idea what is going on in my game. I'm not saying don't nerf stuff, I am saying give me a patch to keep my game the way it is before nerf and consider boosting the other races ships some (they need it). Yet you argue with me about my game and how it's playing out.

I honestly do not get it, what is so offensive to you that I ask for a patch to keep the game the way I like it (get it the way I LIKE it) that you have to argue about me asking to a patch to keep thing the same as it is right now (the Terran ships that is)? I want other ships buffed, I just want the option to keep the terrans the way they are, change them and then release a patch that reverts those changes for those of us who want them the way they are, just those ships.

The I in my game has 20 Large and 20 med turrets, including missiles, the shields are better if not on par with the strongest of the BB ships in the game. The way it is designed there is no sneak up behind it and thump it like any other Xenon ship, who ever did the turrets on the I made sure you get a face full no matter where you sit. Oh and all the weapons are buffed in my game, they have longer ranges and new weapon types.

I can kill any races BB in any frigate in the game myself, you can not compare the AI to a player controlling the ship. Any ship in the game can become OP in the players hands.

So again I'll say this, I would like a patch to keep any changes to the Terrans the way they are. I would actually like to see the other races get some love and some of their ships buffed to give them help against the Xenon.

Oh, I use SVE as one of my mods btw.

Thanks!
Well... I wish I had whatever mod your using that makes the Xenon I so powerful. (I genuinely mean that.) The xenon are still be crushed by the npcs even with VRO and faction enhancer mods, both which make the xenon stronger. And I've killed a half dozen Xenon I's solo (or with random patrol fighter asistance) with just a katana corvette. Though it takes longer with VRO buffing their shield regen.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Mon, 9. May 22, 14:43

Thanks for the update Shuulo, much appreciated.

siath70
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by siath70 » Mon, 9. May 22, 17:41

Valhalla_Awaits wrote:
Mon, 9. May 22, 09:17

Well... I wish I had whatever mod your using that makes the Xenon I so powerful. (I genuinely mean that.) The xenon are still be crushed by the npcs even with VRO and faction enhancer mods, both which make the xenon stronger. And I've killed a half dozen Xenon I's solo (or with random patrol fighter asistance) with just a katana corvette. Though it takes longer with VRO buffing their shield regen.
Don't know but in my game if an I looks at a Katana it's dead. Fighters have no chance, but then again maybe I just do not have the right set ups. I do like this mod though and can't see myself playing without it.

JPB101673
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by JPB101673 » Tue, 10. May 22, 05:01

@Shuulo, is this new patch save game compatible or does it need a new start?

Ty for all that you have done and are doing, especially considering the circumstances. I hope you and yours are and stay safe.

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Lord Dakier
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Lord Dakier » Wed, 11. May 22, 15:45

JPB101673 wrote:
Tue, 10. May 22, 05:01
@Shuulo, is this new patch save game compatible or does it need a new start?

Ty for all that you have done and are doing, especially considering the circumstances. I hope you and yours are and stay safe.
Its compatible.

siath70
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by siath70 » Thu, 19. May 22, 16:18

THought I would mention these here, I know they don't really matter and can be ignored, but I didn't know if you knew about them.
I only have you mod and deadair/kuertee mods installed currently, slowly adding mods and checking for errors so I don't have conflicts.

Code: Select all

[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='xenon_fighter_escort_s_frigate']/quota[@wing='4']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='xenon_fighter_escort_s_patrol']/quota[@wing='2']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='argon_carrier_patrol_xl_center_galaxy']/quota[@galaxy='1']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='teladi_carrier_patrol_xl_cluster']/quota[@galaxy='1']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='paranid_carrier_patrol_xl_cluster']/quota[@galaxy='1']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='zyarth_carrier_patrol_xl_center']/quota[@galaxy='1']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='court_carrier_patrol_xl_center']/quota[@galaxy='1']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='argon_fighter_escort_s_carrier']/quota[@wing='10']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='paranid_fighter_escort_s_carrier']/quota[@wing='10']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='teladi_fighter_escort_s_carrier']/quota[@wing='6']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='zyarth_escort_s_carrier']/quota[@wing='5']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='court_escort_s_carrier']/quota[@wing='5']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='xenon_free_miner_m_mineral']/quota/@cluster' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='xenon_carrier_patrol_xl_border_cluster']/quota[@galaxy='1']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 No matching node for path '//jobs/job[@id='xenon_destroyer_patrol_xl_defence']/quota[@galaxy='6']' in patch file 'extensions\vro\libraries\jobs'. Skipping node.

[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_xen_xl_mdestroyer_01' has only turrets in group 'group11'! @Artists

[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_spl_l_viper' has only turrets in group 'main_gun'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_spl_l_viper' has no shields in engine group 'group_engine'! @Artists

[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has ungrouped surface element connection 'con_shieldgen_m_2'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has ungrouped surface element connection 'con_shieldgen_m_3'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has ungrouped surface element connection 'con_shieldgen_m_4'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has ungrouped surface element connection 'con_shieldgen_m_5'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has ungrouped surface element connection 'con_shieldgen_m_6'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has ungrouped surface element connection 'con_shieldgen_m_7'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_arg_l_centaur' has one or more turrets in engine group 'enginegroup'! @Artists

[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_par_xl_battleship_01' has turret slots in group 'group_center_up_middle_large' with different tags! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_par_xl_battleship_01' has one or more turrets in engine group 'group_back_up_mid'! @Artists

[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_tel_l_shrike_a' has no shields in engine group 'group_back_mid_mid'! @Artists

[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_xen_xl_u' has only turrets in group 'turrets'! @Artists
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 'ship_xen_xl_u' has no shields in engine group 'capship_engines'! @Artists

[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 Error in default context: Evaluated EquipmentModsDefinition ware 'mod_shield_rechargedelay_01_mk1' in mod list is not an equipment mod ware
* Expression: ware.mod_shield_rechargedelay_01_mk1
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 Error in default context: Evaluated EquipmentModsDefinition ware 'mod_shield_rechargedelay_01_mk1' in mod list is not an equipment mod ware
* Expression: ware.mod_shield_rechargedelay_01_mk1
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 Error in default context: Evaluated EquipmentModsDefinition ware 'mod_shield_rechargedelay_01_mk1' in mod list is not an equipment mod ware
* Expression: ware.mod_shield_rechargedelay_01_mk1
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[General] 0.00 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 0.00 Tried to active state for job ID paranid_corvette_patrol_m_sector_spl_mission, which is not valid!


As I said I know these probably do not matter, but I thought I would point them out just in case.

Thanks for the great mod!

User avatar
Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Thu, 19. May 22, 18:37

siath70 wrote:
Thu, 19. May 22, 16:18

As I said I know these probably do not matter, but I thought I would point them out just in case.

Thanks for the great mod!
Those job changes were specifically made in a way to change only vanilla balance, if something already changing them (for example DA mods), then my changes will be ignored as DA things are usually compatible with VRO and take this into account.
Others are harmless.
The ones for paranid_corvette_patrol_m_sector_spl_mission are not from VRO.

Saenders
Posts: 10
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Saenders » Mon, 30. May 22, 12:21

Hi

Great mod Thanks but there are problems

I don't speak English I hope you can speak German
understand google translation

There is a problem with X4 5.10 and VRO Mod with that
Auto Mining
I've been testing it for 4 days now with the current VRO
Mod, and without VRO mod
whenever I play with VRO MOD and in the test sector
Asteroid Belt bin Find this
Ship ore and mine, if I'm from the sector it doesn't mine ore
more off
I could also do that in the info sector
raw materials
Strong up and down fluctuations with minus -986M or
1,434M
The asteroids themselves also have giant values ​​of 70000000
units

Now I ask myself is this problem known?

Because further test games showed if you with a
normal game starts without VRO Mod.
And creates a game, and then activates the mod later,
There are none
Mining problems, the mining ship works
how come ??

In later gameplay and purchased mining ships
I don't know yet whether they will work like the M
mining ship

If you ask yourself now, I have other mods, they are called
Answer yes
But none of these mods bring big changes to the game
it is about these mods

Yaki clothes for all Tehrans
Remove mines & poisonous fog fields
seminar model
X Universe + from 5.0
crew of fast levels
HQ_02_V2
That was it
Greetings Saenders

magitsu
Posts: 399
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x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by magitsu » Mon, 30. May 22, 13:19

"But none of these mods bring big changes to the game"
X Universe + / as of 5.0 contains big changes, specifically in the yields that you point out as being weird.

"The asteroid's resources have been increased, especially Nividium has been better adapted.
(This part cannot be separated from the mod as several things have been changed.)"

X Universe + / as of 5.0 seems to be bugged in this regard and it's confirmed by multiple recent comments:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1780035703

Removing X Universe + / as of 5.0 is necessary, but after that you also need to start a new save.
"If the mod is deactivated after a new game containing it though, the weird yields remain in the game."

Ultimately it's unrelated to VRO.

Saenders
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 22. Mar 21, 16:19

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Saenders » Mon, 30. May 22, 19:20

magitsu wrote:
Mon, 30. May 22, 13:19
"But none of these mods bring big changes to the game"
X Universe + / as of 5.0 contains big changes, specifically in the yields that you point out as being weird.

"The asteroid's resources have been increased, especially Nividium has been better adapted.
(This part cannot be separated from the mod as several things have been changed.)"

X Universe + / as of 5.0 seems to be bugged in this regard and it's confirmed by multiple recent comments:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1780035703

Removing X Universe + / as of 5.0 is necessary, but after that you also need to start a new save.
"If the mod is deactivated after a new game containing it though, the weird yields remain in the game."

Ultimately it's unrelated to VRO.
Thanks I understand
Then I will do it immediately and remove the Uni Mod and test a new game

Greetings Saenders

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Sun, 5. Jun 22, 03:04

Hi,

Is it a known issue that the presence of the Internal Shield generator appears to break applying a pre-defined ship loadout to a ship?

If I save a Loadout without the Internal Shield, it works fine. If however the Loadout includes the Internal Shield it is greyed out with the tooltip "This loadout cannot be installed at this facility die to unavailable equipment items". This isn't actually accurate of course, as Internal Shields are available at this dock.

Note: I'm equipping captured Terran Fighters at an Argon Equipment Dock. Manually updated they are fine, but if I save a Loadout with that exact working equipment loadout, it breaks as described.

Basically, the work-around is to save the desired template without the Internal shield and apply it to the group of ships. Then send the ships to be re-equipped again, but this time manually add the Internal Shield to each of them in turn. At lease the bulk of the work is done this way.

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