[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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rusky
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by rusky » Wed, 8. Sep 21, 14:58

So, I noticed the cyclone beamer turrets were being particularly bad at actually hitting things despite "accurate point defense" being their supposed selling point.

I experimented a bit and found there's 2 reasons they perform so poorly:

1) The "attach=0" flag you set on it means the beams don't track the targets they just shoot like a standard projectile. This results in something like 90% of the shots missing even with the ludicrous bullet speed.
2) Setting attack=1 isn't enough because the beam lifetime is not long enough for the tracking to do anything. I found increasing the beam lifetime to 1s (from 0.35s) and reducing the fire rate to 1 (from 3) kept the dps around the same values while making the Cyclone beamers actually worthwhile as a point defense tool. They can hit stuff now!

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Wed, 8. Sep 21, 15:07

rusky wrote:
Wed, 8. Sep 21, 14:58

1) The "attach=0" flag you set on it means the beams don't track the targets they just shoot like a standard projectile. This results in something like 90% of the shots missing even with the ludicrous bullet speed.
thing here is broken turret tracking in latest game versions, they were much better in 3.3. We will see if this will be fixed in 4.1. if no, I may update them a bit.
They are made like that on purpose.

rusky
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by rusky » Wed, 8. Sep 21, 15:33

Oh ok, didn't realise they worked better in previous versions. Fair enough!

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 20:01

Hey Shuulo,

Is there a problem with the S-Class "Plasma Burster" weapon? I've never used them personally before, only on my AI-Controlled ships and they seemed to be ok in this role. However, when using them myself, they're woefully inaccurate. I get that the nature of the weapon (high damage burst, ideal vs. larger targets) might mean they deliberately have a degree of inaccuracy, but it seems too much. For example, I'm following a Minotaur Sentinel, a tough but not super-nimble ship, it's flying straight, I'm behind it, and the aiming reticles for the Plasma Bursters are tracking correctly. The moment I fire however the shots are close to 30 degrees off target. I fire again and they're perhaps a little closer, I fire a third burst and they're about the same, ALL shots missing. It doesn't get any better.

I sometimes seem to get what appears to be more a lucky hit than anything as the shots simply do not track where the individual reticles are pointing. I aid the aim as much as I can, ensuring the individual reticles are tracking the lead target indicator - like I do with any non insta-hit weapons - yet the Plasma Burster is always way off target. I'm aware there's a degree of hard-coded "the first few shots will be waaaaay off target", but this is only for turrets I thought. Plus, I firing lots of times and missing 90% of those times.

In AI hands it seems to work pretty well, not great vs. smaller fighters but very good vs. larger fighters and corvettes of course.

Note: I'm testing this in V4.1 Beta 7 HF2 currently, so perhaps there are other issues at play? Just thought it worth mentioning as I expect (and hope) you might be working on VRO for 4.10 now or in the near future.

Edit: I did wonder if this was a 100% fixed forward-fire weapon, which might explain things were it not for the fact that even when I'm lined up dead centre on the target, the shots go wide and not just the main always-centred reticle.

Cheers,

Scoob.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 17:36

Mod version 3.1 for 4.1 of the game is now released:
- Rebalanced M turrets - damage is lower by 10-15% depending on turret, should make battles longer and will make S and M ships survive a bit more.
- Rebelanced M shields - 15% stronger to give that needed survivability to M ships, increased M ships hull by 10-15% to make them even more sturdy
- Improved M weapons damage slightly to make them more viable
- Nerfed station OOS damage so they are not OP
- Fixed ATF battleship main gun being destructible
- Increased default unit/drone capacity of M ships
- Updated starting equipment for Terran Cadet start so not to mess with "collect mine" mission
- Improved possibility of AI faction fitting their ships with torpedo launchers
- Revert hull points buff for defense modules back to vanilla values to make platforms more vulnerable to attacks (administrative module hull buff did not change)
- Correction of typos

Note that there are few issues with OOS in vanilla 4.1 for Asgard and very tough stations, its still better in VRO but those should be fixed by Egosoft and ill update as required, cant do anything about it on my own.

STEAM is stupid and its servers are busy, so upload fails, for now you can get from Nexus.
Last edited by Shuulo on Tue, 14. Sep 21, 10:56, edited 1 time in total.

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 18:58

Thanks for the update Shuulo.

Scoob.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 19:42

Scoob wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 18:58
Thanks for the update Shuulo.

Scoob.
ah sorry, didnt see your previous post, too much platform for communication lol
those plasma bursters are the most powerful gun vs large sips, so they are made inaccurate on purpose. If player uses them he can decimate surface elements very fast as all plasma weapons have double damage against them. If you want more precise plasma gun just use regular plasma cannon.

Mycu
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Mycu » Mon, 13. Sep 21, 20:26

Nice to see update for VRO so fast.
Thanks Shuulo.
X3 AP 3.1 + XRM
X3 AP 3.1 + LU

Malchar
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Malchar » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 09:32

Shuulo wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 17:36
Mod version 3.1 for 4.1 of the game is now released:

- Increased default capacity of M ships
capacity of ? crews number ? storage container or solide ? for civilian and military ?

I uploaded from nexus, installed it, verified the content.xml to be sure, but I have difficulty to find what capacity have change. Thanks.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 10:56

Malchar wrote:
Tue, 14. Sep 21, 09:32
Shuulo wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 17:36
Mod version 3.1 for 4.1 of the game is now released:

- Increased default capacity of M ships
capacity of ? crews number ? storage container or solide ? for civilian and military ?

I uploaded from nexus, installed it, verified the content.xml to be sure, but I have difficulty to find what capacity have change. Thanks.
units/drones

Malchar
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Malchar » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 16:04

ok :-)

PS ; I noticed sometime ago what I think to be a mistyping in the paranid corvette B ; <drag forward="4.8" reverse="16.2" horizontal="20.3" vertical="20.3" pitch="17.7" yaw="17.7" roll="7.3" />
It is probable the 1 had been eated for the roll.

Trajan von Olb
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Trajan von Olb » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 16:27

Thank you very much for your work. It all sounds great!

One question about Steam: Do I have to uninstall it from Steam first and then reload it from Nexus? Or can I just do that over the Steam installation and Steam won't interfere?

Thanks for the answer

Regards

Trajan von Olb
Mein Traum vom Glück ist der Traum von einer anderen Menschheit. (S. Lem)

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Tue, 14. Sep 21, 20:39

Shuulo wrote:
Mon, 13. Sep 21, 19:42
ah sorry, didnt see your previous post, too much platform for communication lol
those plasma bursters are the most powerful gun vs large sips, so they are made inaccurate on purpose. If player uses them he can decimate surface elements very fast as all plasma weapons have double damage against them. If you want more precise plasma gun just use regular plasma cannon.
No worries. That was my issue though, when I was using them, they'd be all over the place and struggle to hit anything, yet worked really well vs. surface elements when I ordered AI-controlled ships to use them. I'll practise more lol.

Scoob.

altexperte
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by altexperte » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 17:23

Hey. I greatly enjoy the mod. Thank you for all that hard work.
Would you consider making some parameters configurable by UI mod extensions. I was thinking of upping the Khaak spawns in sectors. Would love to see such params configurable in a menu ingame.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 18:43

altexperte wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 17:23
Hey. I greatly enjoy the mod. Thank you for all that hard work.
Would you consider making some parameters configurable by UI mod extensions. I was thinking of upping the Khaak spawns in sectors. Would love to see such params configurable in a menu ingame.
No, it's outside of VRO scope, no UI changes will ever be made.
Also, VRO doesn't even touch khaak spawn rates, you should look for another mod to do that

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 21:02

Hi Shuulo,

I just started a new v4.1 game with VRO and smaller ships are behaving crazy. Ships are regularly stopping dead in combat, which is basically suicide, as well as instantly changing direction and speed regularly.

I'm flying around the HOP / PAR border sectors observing combat, and this behaviour is constant. I see ships instantly changing vectors, flying along new courses right away that they're not even facing yet. I see other ships able to do the same while in Travel Mode, making them near impossible to follow.

I know these issues exist in vanilla too, but could VRO tweaks (ship speeds etc.) somehow be exaggerating this? I'm really not sure what's going on here, I've never seen it this bad before.

Is anyone else noticing this? I just did a fresh custom (start in Argon Prime with a medium-well equipped Discoverer) and am exploring a bit watching the universe go by.

Scoob.

Coruskane
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Coruskane » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 23:30

hey, im not sure if this is a VRO thing or vanilla thing but it was hard to search for it...

anyone know what the blue bar represents in the shield/recharge rate stats?

https://imgur.com/a/Pte2gYP

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 00:56

Scoob wrote:
Sun, 26. Sep 21, 21:02
Hi Shuulo,

I just started a new v4.1 game with VRO and smaller ships are behaving crazy. Ships are regularly stopping dead in combat, which is basically suicide, as well as instantly changing direction and speed regularly.

I'm flying around the HOP / PAR border sectors observing combat, and this behaviour is constant. I see ships instantly changing vectors, flying along new courses right away that they're not even facing yet. I see other ships able to do the same while in Travel Mode, making them near impossible to follow.

I know these issues exist in vanilla too, but could VRO tweaks (ship speeds etc.) somehow be exaggerating this? I'm really not sure what's going on here, I've never seen it this bad before.

Is anyone else noticing this? I just did a fresh custom (start in Argon Prime with a medium-well equipped Discoverer) and am exploring a bit watching the universe go by.

Scoob.
VRO makes 0 changes to AI, if its broken - its vanilla issue

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Scoob » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 14:48

Shuulo wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 00:56
VRO makes 0 changes to AI, if its broken - its vanilla issue
Yeah, I assumed as much, though I expect faster ships make it a little more obvious - it's Fighters that are really noticeably doing this. Thought I'd post here first as once "modified game" is mentioned in the regular sub-forums I suspect such things are ignored.

I played during the 4.1 beta and while ships would do weird stuff from time to time it was never this evident, perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.

Scoob.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 3.x

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 27. Sep 21, 15:08

Scoob wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 14:48
Shuulo wrote:
Mon, 27. Sep 21, 00:56
VRO makes 0 changes to AI, if its broken - its vanilla issue
Yeah, I assumed as much, though I expect faster ships make it a little more obvious - it's Fighters that are really noticeably doing this. Thought I'd post here first as once "modified game" is mentioned in the regular sub-forums I suspect such things are ignored.

I played during the 4.1 beta and while ships would do weird stuff from time to time it was never this evident, perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.

Scoob.
Yeah, it can make it a bit more ovbious. I recommend to try vanilla game and look for ai vs ai fight, if that is present as well then submit save to devs on techforum.

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