[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

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Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Tue, 13. Apr 21, 20:43

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 18:34
this is ion effect of Ion Pulse Gun, if its so hard on you then you are under constant fire from it, it goes away after 2-3 seconds if they dont hit you. Effect on one hit is not really noticeable, but it accumulates if there are many hits. Also, it does not affect the weapon aiming at all from my experience.
The fire was constant as, after the first couple of hits, my ship could no longer move at all. Some reduction in steering or speed would have been something I could have gotten out of. However, being in essence unable to move other than the odd rotation I had little control of, was basically game over for that ship.

For the record, the ship in question hit me and I tried to turn to face it. I started turning, albeit very very slowly, but appeared to have no ability to halt my turn, nor accelerate away. The Chimera then also simply stopped facing me and shooting constantly. I did rotate to face it, for a moment, but wasn't under any control at the time and my guns simply would not track the stationary target, so my shots missed. In theory, the fire from my ship would have killed the Chimera outright with one volley, but shots need to be on target to hit lol.

Perhaps my situation was an extreme one, but the ship I was in was totally disabled in effect by this attack and taken from full shield and hull to dead within about 30 seconds. 30 seconds of my being able to do nothing.

I can see that the effect doesn't last long individually, but as it is instantly re-applied by the next shot, a "stunned" ship has little chance if alone. Is there a way to make the effect less absolute? I.e. it won't rob the ship of ALL ability to turn and move?

Thought: I think X4's engine gets a bit confused in cases like this. I mean, I could see my target aiming point moving as I hit boost to try to get away, but of course I wasn't actually moving. This may be why my aim was off. The game was treating my ship as moving and adjusting the aim-ahead accordingly, resulting in all shots missing.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Knjaz136 » Tue, 13. Apr 21, 20:55

BlackRain wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 20:20
Isn't the pirate way to steal anyway? Lol, go steal their ships if you want them.
But they do build (or repurpose/re-equip) them somewhere in first place.

Plus, stealing depends on "finding them", which is pretty rare occurence that is purely RNG based. Honestly, having all these excellent and unique assets/ships locked behind "blueprints only" (read - industry/economy oriented playstyle of Excel Simulator) is detrimental to player's experience.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by BlackRain » Tue, 13. Apr 21, 21:04

Knjaz136 wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 20:55
BlackRain wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 20:20
Isn't the pirate way to steal anyway? Lol, go steal their ships if you want them.
But they do build (or repurpose/re-equip) them somewhere in first place.

Plus, stealing depends on "finding them", which is pretty rare occurence that is purely RNG based. Honestly, having all these excellent and unique assets/ships locked behind "blueprints only" (read - industry/economy oriented playstyle of Excel Simulator) is detrimental to player's experience.
I don't think they get built actually. The SCA ships might be spawned. They do re-equip but they just go to argon or antigone or teladi or something shipyards to do that. It is easy to find pirate ships, I see them all the time.

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 13. Apr 21, 21:44

Knjaz136 wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 20:17
Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 18:34
Knjaz136 wrote:
Mon, 12. Apr 21, 22:32
Maybe you've been asked this before, but what do you think about granting player ability to buy (not just build) Hounds and other Pirate ships? Maybe even going as far as creating a Pirate shipyard, if possible.

This would reaaally improve Pirate Roleplay. This game lacks inSystem activities, would be a great addition.
Player can already buy their blueprint, pirates dont have shipyard to sell you the ship
Correct, but to have an industry to build one, we're looking at 500 million investment at the very least, likely more. Which raises the question - can it still be called a Pirate gameplay when you are half a billion rich and have production chain necessary to build capital ships yourself?

I suppose adding a shipyard where these excellent assets can be built would conflict with some other mods?
This is out of scope for VRO

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Tue, 13. Apr 21, 21:47

Hey Shuulo,

Is there a problem with the "Ion Projector Turret"? I have an Avenger Mk1 (Battleship, XR Ship Mod) that has TWO of these fitted. They're shooting their targets just fine, I have them set to Attack Capitals, but they're doing next to no damage at all. The target's Shields - a Xenon I - go to 99% for a second, but then they're back up to 100% Considering these are doing nearly 5,000 MW damage per shot, that doesn't seem right. A single hit from whatever beam the Xenon I is using on the other hand, seems to take big chunk out of the Avenger Mk1's shields (two XL, One ARG, one TEL).

Not quite sure what's going on here, perhaps one of those game engine quirks.

Edit: I think it might be a range thing. The beam was firing, and visually hitting the target time and time again and doing little damage. That damage may have been something else firing at it. After trying again, the Avenger Mk1 got really close to the target - actual melee range, it nudged the Xenon I - and firing from this range is doing decent damage. Visual beam range < actual damage range?

Scoob.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Knjaz136 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 01:09

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 13. Apr 21, 21:44
This is out of scope for VRO
I see, thanks for reply. Will have to use other means then.
A bit sad, these assets would really enrich the "pirate" gameplay.

Though there is 1 pirate Shipyard in the game - from Yaki faction, but by the time player can use it he wouldn't need any pirate ships anyway.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Max Bain » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 18:19

I often see stations seriously damaged on the map and when I fly to them there are often 1 to 3 xenon fighters attacking the station. It seems that the station defense can not hit the fighters and therefore the little fighters nearly kill huge stations on their own.
In sector of course they die in a few seconds. This might not be specifically a VRO problem because I dont know how it is in vanilla, but of course it is something that feels broken and should be analysed and maybe fixed.
(Or am I the only one with this problem?)
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 18:54

Max Bain wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 18:19
I often see stations seriously damaged on the map and when I fly to them there are often 1 to 3 xenon fighters attacking the station. It seems that the station defense can not hit the fighters and therefore the little fighters nearly kill huge stations on their own.
In sector of course they die in a few seconds. This might not be specifically a VRO problem because I dont know how it is in vanilla, but of course it is something that feels broken and should be analysed and maybe fixed.
(Or am I the only one with this problem?)
half of steam yell that stations are OP, others say that they cant kill anyone. Its OOS thing, unless Egosoft gives me stations modifiers i cant do much about it. Now that OOS considers the projectile speed type of weapon plays huge role here. Check vanilla techsupport especially during beta, there are numerous reports about issues with stations damage in OOS, nothing i can fix.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Max Bain » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 22:44

OK I observed it a bit and placed a satellite near the shipyard that seems to be under constant fire.

The problem is not the defense, but the lack of repair drones it seems. The shipyard can destroy the xenon ships but it does not repair. So even a single xenon who does just a couple hundred damage will slowly destroy the station if it happens for a long period of time.
I guess it has something to do with the lack of drone components in my game.
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Phiolin » Thu, 15. Apr 21, 08:45

Started a new game to see how Xenons would behave with a fresh start. I started with FOCW increased Xenon miners and fighter and over the first few hours adjusted it to enable all FOCW Xenon options at full strength. I even adjusted the thresholds to add even more miners, frigates and destroyers.
However even after only a couple of hours it is already visible that the Xenons don't stand a chance. Factions have sooooooooo many ships at each Xenon gate, that whatever comes through is destined to die within a few minutes. This might be more like a Faction Enhancer but a VRO issue maybe, as factions just seem too good in defending their properties. There are literally 6+ faction destroyers plus several M class ships and loads of fighters at each gate that instantly annihilate most ships. Until now I didn't even support the factions in any way, no big trading fleets and most of my stations are not yet fully operational. So it's not like I'm pushing the economy too much.

On the plus side, so far Xenons have not lost a sector, so they seem to be defending their things as well. We'll see how it goes...

Nevertheless, the balancing still doesn't feel right, especially OOS.
OOS, a single Argon Cerberus should probably not be able to take out 5 Xenon M fighters without losing any shields?
Also, saw 5 Xenon P unable to take down a Mokosi L freighter because of shield regeneration (again, OOS) and they would've probably died over time to the Mokosis turrets, given that they already all had lost their shields when the Mokosi was still basically untouched.

This seems like extreme cases, but I see those regularly and it makes the Xenon really appear weak OOS with their weapons mostly unable to breach the shield regeneration of their enemies.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Trajan von Olb » Thu, 15. Apr 21, 14:57

Hi,

because it fits into the current discussion, a question before I start a new game:
I would rather have LESS xenon activity! At least at the beginning of the game, it's all going too fast for me, so I feel pressured to do economy right away instead of exploring the universe in peace first. In my last game, the Xenon took over a lot in a flash....
So for LESS xenon activity / more strength of races, should I install the Faction-Enhancer-War module or not? All other FE modules are active for me, as well as the DeadAir mods (except for the additional sectors)...
Thanks for the answer, I hope it is clear, which was not the case when researching on the net...

Greetings Schmollo

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by BlackRain » Thu, 15. Apr 21, 15:19

schmollo wrote:
Thu, 15. Apr 21, 14:57
Hi,

because it fits into the current discussion, a question before I start a new game:
I would rather have LESS xenon activity! At least at the beginning of the game, it's all going too fast for me, so I feel pressured to do economy right away instead of exploring the universe in peace first. In my last game, the Xenon took over a lot in a flash....
So for LESS xenon activity / more strength of races, should I install the Faction-Enhancer-War module or not? All other FE modules are active for me, as well as the DeadAir mods (except for the additional sectors)...
Thanks for the answer, I hope it is clear, which was not the case when researching on the net...

Greetings Schmollo

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If you want less Xenon activity, I would not install FE at all, that would increase Xenon activity.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Thu, 15. Apr 21, 19:40

BlackRain wrote:
Thu, 15. Apr 21, 15:19
If you want less Xenon activity, I would not install FE at all, that would increase Xenon activity.
FE, while great, is certainly the one that poke the Xenon with a large pointy stick and makes them very angry lol. Fantastic if that's what you want, but perhaps a little overwhelming if you don't.

Note: I was using a combination of VRO, FE and XR Ship pack as my main mods, with a few others such as TaterTrader and Mules as well. Xenon were always a major threat. I've now substituted FE for FOCW and Corporations Revised and the Xenon have been slower to get moving. They've seemed satisfied to defend their space - they've not lost any sectors by Day 3 - while sending out the odd invasion. However, I've just gone past the third day and the Xenon are certainly stirring, and they seem to be launching attacks that are a lot more serious, involving Xenon I's and a couple of Destroyers.

Scoob.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Trajan von Olb » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 00:12

Scoob wrote:
Thu, 15. Apr 21, 19:40
BlackRain wrote:
Thu, 15. Apr 21, 15:19
If you want less Xenon activity, I would not install FE at all, that would increase Xenon activity.
FE, while great, is certainly the one that poke the Xenon with a large pointy stick and makes them very angry lol. Fantastic if that's what you want, but perhaps a little overwhelming if you don't.

Note: I was using a combination of VRO, FE and XR Ship pack as my main mods, with a few others such as TaterTrader and Mules as well. Xenon were always a major threat. I've now substituted FE for FOCW and Corporations Revised and the Xenon have been slower to get moving. They've seemed satisfied to defend their space - they've not lost any sectors by Day 3 - while sending out the odd invasion. However, I've just gone past the third day and the Xenon are certainly stirring, and they seem to be launching attacks that are a lot more serious, involving Xenon I's and a couple of Destroyers.

Scoob.
All right, so if I understand this correctly, it is actually ONLY the FE-War module that is responsible for the Xenon and their aggressiveness. Maybe the catch-up module as well. But I need that for the other factions (as I said, I want to start in great peace, thereby I want the security that factions don't disappear before I have all their blueprints :-) And the other modules are very useful for the economy.
On the other hand, apparently you can set EVERYTHING with FOCW (which I didn't even know about because it doesn't seem to show up on Nexus and Steam), right? So also neuter the Xenon, at least temporarily.... Yes?
Would the following therefore make sense?
VRO + XRShipPack(+vro) + WeaponPack + FE (without war module) + deadAirFill + FOCW?
Because FOCW should actually overwrite all Xenon settings and make the Xenon hand-tame for a while, even if their economy somehow runs better through FE, right?
I don't have anything against Xenon either, I just don't want them to constantly overrun whole sectors with 4xI (or even U through the shippack) + masses of fighters without the races having a chance. In my last config with all FE, Ianamus Zura was always gone after a very short time, while I had just one destroyer...
Thank you very much.

Schmollo

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 00:36

I think so, I can only share my experiences using various mods combined. I don't use DeadAirFill, but I think it's effectively a resource booster. If stocks at Trade Stations get low, they get topped up, so an otherwise resource-poor faction might get a boost...well, any Faction that can buy from it might get a boost.

In my game, after three days, Xenon aggression really is ramping up now after a relatively quiet time. This evening alone (about two hours play) I've personally dealt with FOUR Xenon I's. Poor old ANT in The Void and Frontier's Edge are getting the brunt of it. Xenon are coming in via Savage Spur I into Getsu Fune and bypassing the TER and ANT Fleets there. Also having Xenon from Atiya's Misfortune I entering Frontier's Edge. Still, hopefully they'll be quiet for a bit now lol.

Scoob.

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by EtherealZucchini » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 22:52

Terrans don't seem to have cruise missile turrets, is this an oversight or intended?

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by BlackRain » Sat, 17. Apr 21, 04:56

Is it just me or are missiles only using commonwealth resources? I loaded up on supplies for my supply ship and was wondering why it wouldn't restock missiles, seems no missiles use terran resources?

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Xarvos » Sat, 17. Apr 21, 06:14

Great mod!
After 1.3k hrs of vanilla gameplay I decided to install few mods(faction war enchancer + focw+vro) since 4.0 broke xenons and they kept getting wiped out around 6-8 days of playtime without any help from player.

I think it's very hard to go back to vanilla anymore feels really fresh and now I actually have to kill some xenons again. Only 10hrs or so into the save atm and having a blast :mrgreen:

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by CrimsonBlade » Tue, 20. Apr 21, 05:32

Hey. Am I the only one where all of the Terran ships are painted pure white instead of white and red? -because from the few videos I've checked out I'm not the only one experiencing that issue...

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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by CrimsonBlade » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 01:17

NVM. It appears to have been a deliberate choice on the part of the author. One that can relatively easily be undone by extracting .cat files, deleting the file called "themes", then re-packing it and overwriting the old vro data. Huzzah! Having a blast, BTW!

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