[Mod] Shields and Weapons balance overhaul 1.74

[Reaper507]

Different weapon types do different damage to shields and armor? Is a bolt repeater the best choice for armor destruction? Or there is only one value behind the scene - Weapon Output?

[AngEviL]

I was wondering this about the mod but how are the turrets performing with this mod? are they still unable to keep up with targets and have trouble hitting their targets when the ship they're mounted on moves a around constantly?

The turrets have been buffed, i attached a few screenshots on the main page, in one case on paper according to encyclopedia, the damage has been increased 5 times, and projectile speed 3 times, haha. They are as agile as they could be, have pretty fast bullets. They probably still feel weak though, that is up to egosoft to improve target tracking in the next patches.

And regarding damage, yeah, all wapons deal a standard damage, that has to go through shield and get to hull, but I think that there is plenty of choice now. I made all weapons quite different from each other, there are no longer weak weapons, so the player has real choice depending on their playstile.
Really, try the Mk1 weapons now, you will be surprised !

[Requiemfang]

So you didn't buff the rotation speed for turrets I take? What sounds good on paper at lot of times isn't very good to run in a simulation. If the rotation speed of the turrets are unchanged then it doesn't matter if the turrets bullets are faster they still will have trouble hitting the target at least when it comes to fighters. Granted I have noticed the turrets are able to keep up with me when I took a mission to kill someone and they were in a transporter/cargo ship with turrets. Hmmm I guess it just needs more testing to be sure.

[AngEviL]

So you didn't buff the rotation speed for turrets I take? What sounds good on paper at lot of times isn't very good to run in a simulation. If the rotation speed of the turrets are unchanged then it doesn't matter if the turrets bullets are faster they still will have trouble hitting the target at least when it comes to fighters. Granted I have noticed the turrets are able to keep up with me when I took a mission to kill someone and they were in a transporter/cargo ship with turrets. Hmmm I guess it just needs more testing to be sure.

The rotation speed is buffed as well since a few days ago, I wrote that in a bunch of places. They are as fast as they can be now. It is up to the devs to improve their tracking futher, which i think they will do in a few patches.

[Guest242]

Regarding the previous posers, the Mk1/Mk2 difference, I mixed them in the mod description, however they were good ingame. The modification affects the AI ships, and so far the game is harder, and the AI is more dangerous because the weapons they had were underpowered lasers, I made lasers much better, and the change affects them. I modified Ion weapons too, they are similar to Plasma cannon, have lower damage, but no heat drain.

Very cool mod and thank you for your work! I use it together with the "Foundations of Conquest and War"-Mod Link to get xenon invasions like the screenshot below. The problem is that the xenon always loose the battle. In my opinion the shield recharge is too strong or the the xenon (and khaak) weapons are too weak. Because of this mod I think they use different weapons: Nexus.

- It's a idea/suggestion to balance the "enemy" weapons too and to make them more fear.

I improved K manuevrability by a high margin, it was very weak, and P a bit. I also improved Khaak and Xen weapons. Xen are not better than what the player has, but if Xen continue to be underpowered I will buff their ships and weapons.

Version 1.50 released ! I am happy that i fixed the weapon stats displayed in encyclopedia, and when choosing weapons on your ships, should be 100% accurate. You can finally brainstorm regarding your preferred loadout ! I went through each weapon in detail again and changed values so they all have a purpose and are balanced.

Thank you for the fast reaction I will test the balance and see if a xenon invasion is a really threat for the galaxy now.

Your mod was listed here as a Weapon and Shield mod (Link). But your mod is also change the xenon ships (manuevrability). Please don't forget, that one day it could be compatibility issues with other mods (except your goal is to create a X4 overhaul).

[Guest242]

With this autosave (game version 1.31, it's not beta anymore) you can test the balance fast : Dropbox
In screenshot 1 you see the situation, when you load the save. After about 5 minutes it looks like screenshot 2. You need of course your own mod and the X4 Foundations of Conquest and War Mod. Maybe it helps you and the other mod users to test new stuff ^^


Screenshot 1:

https://i.ibb.co/Wp1yc3J/1.jpg



Screenshot 2:

https://i.ibb.co/GRZYL10/3.jpg


{Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked - Terre}

[Requiemfang]

So you didn't buff the rotation speed for turrets I take? What sounds good on paper at lot of times isn't very good to run in a simulation. If the rotation speed of the turrets are unchanged then it doesn't matter if the turrets bullets are faster they still will have trouble hitting the target at least when it comes to fighters. Granted I have noticed the turrets are able to keep up with me when I took a mission to kill someone and they were in a transporter/cargo ship with turrets. Hmmm I guess it just needs more testing to be sure.

The rotation speed is buffed as well since a few days ago, I wrote that in a bunch of places. They are as fast as they can be now. It is up to the devs to improve their tracking futher, which i think they will do in a few patches.

alright then I just hadn't noticed really is all. I tend to not engage any enemy craft that's larger than S class atm since I'm still getting the feel for the game. Also... kyon beams are freaking insane. Khaak ships are again to be feared, I have a mk 3 Teladi shields on my personal Falcon Sentinel and only a few shots from the beam put me into critical shield levels. The damage levels of those beams are on par to what I was expecting when I went up against a Khaak ship back in X3:TC for the first time. Did not end well for me. It's too bad the devs removed the Khaak's cluster break off feature where smaller ships would break off from a larger looking geometrical shaped ship, so instead of having to deal with 1 ship you now had to deal with a dozen or more of the buggers.

[Vlyxnol]

Have you thought about balancing missiles as well? Some of them are really out of whack atm. The light heatseeker missile does 3k damage which 1 shots most fighters and since its hitbox is so tiny, missile defense turrets really struggle to destroy them.

[AngEviL]

Thank you for the help Guest242 for the help. I want to avoid buffing Xenon (i know, i kept calling them Xen because that's what the xml files abbreviates them to) ships and weapons over what the player has, like i imagine if i could get xenon ships, lasers, or ships to use for myself. I did find after analyzing values that Xenon ships were too weak compared to others.

Yeah Requiemfang, Khaak are a joke in vanilla, i wanted to make them again snipers of death ! If you encounter a Khaak M ship with a 12k range instant hit beam you'll be hurtin'. The Khaak clusters in X3 were fun.

Vlyxnol, your wish is my command, updated 1.54 released !
I nerfed the damage of all missiles by a third, their were op against capitals, op against small fighters, made battles end too quickly, and the fighters were getting killed too fast. Also in my mod the shield values for fighters are higher than in vanilla; the missiles are still a challenge for them, but manageable.

In this update in buffed Xenon K, P, M, N ships more in hp and manuevrability, should be on par with the other races, i'll see if they need more buffs. I changed many ship hulls, mostly regarding buffing Argon S ships, buffing Vanguard ships and nerfing Sentinel ones.

[ApoxNM]

Just tried the mod, while I really like the general feel of the weapons and fire rates, they feel much weeker now, battles take way longer. By myself in a Falcon I have no change against 3 xen ships. Is this intended?

[Requiemfang]

Just tried the mod, while I really like the general feel of the weapons and fire rates, they feel much weeker now, battles take way longer. By myself in a Falcon I have no change against 3 xen ships. Is this intended?

have you tried the new version yet? mod creator just gave Xenon ships a buff across the board.

[AngEviL]

Again and again in X4 the xenon were pushed around and got obliterated from the galaxy and sent straight to the hellhole where they came from ! Time to end the picking on the small guy, the Xenon got back to the drawing board and fixed many flaws in their ship design and weaponry.

No really, I didn't nerf any weapon, and remember, what the player uses, the NPC uses too. Actually some weapons like laser and plasma are greatly improved from vanilla.
In vanilla Xenon had weaker ships and weapons than player, now I made them on par with the player. If you read the forums, I see this complaint everywhere, that the game is too easy, that Xenon get obliterated by the NPCs even, without the player doing anything.

I made Xenon ships and weapons on par with the player, no cheating. I realize that this may make the game harder at first when you are starting out, but this part of the fun, and if you wrote that, i think that the mod is in a good direction, haha.

[Requiemfang]

I like it, I like the challenge, it makes you feel that sense of accomplishment when you manage to take them down in a fight. I do not like having things handed to me.

[Osbot]

If it feels like weapons are nerfed, it's because shields are much stronger.

[thanos]

Thanks for the mod. Quick questions:

1. I can't seem to find the latest version on the Nexus (I see 1.54 only).
2. What exactly do you mean by integrating engines/turrets/shields into the hull? Is it not possible to destroy individual subsystems anymore?
3. Can you look into modifying the destroyer main batteries? They are a bit anemic for what they're supposed to do. At least in my mind they should be powerful anti-capital/anti-station guns.

[AngEviL]

Thanks for the mod. Quick questions:

1. I can't seem to find the latest version on the Nexus (I see 1.54 only).
2. What exactly do you mean by integrating engines/turrets/shields into the hull? Is it not possible to destroy individual subsystems anymore?
3. Can you look into modifying the destroyer main batteries? They are a bit anemic for what they're supposed to do. At least in my mind they should be powerful anti-capital/anti-station guns.

The version is up, there was a small error I had to correct before uploading.
2.No, the way this mod is headed that was more of a hindrance, as instead of hitting the ship, the components got hit. The main ship took no damage in that case.
The turrets and shield hp got boosted so much, that they didn't get killed anymore. I just don't like it for a capital ship to be disabled easy and be a sitting duck.

Besides, when it gets chaotic, and i am sure it will in the next patches with more conflict, hitting those huge engine hitboxes would be more of a hindrance imho, might as well buff the total hp instead. Of course i know some people would prefer to disable components, and I agree, it is that the way I am balancing this mod I don't like having that in practice.

3. They are already modified, the destroyer main guns do x2.5 times the damage of Mk2 Plasma, which does big damage already.

[thanos]

Thanks for the reply. One thing to consider with the invulnerable components is how it affects boarding. If you can't blow up those turrets, is boarding going to be impossible? They will just shoot down all the pods. At least, that's what they did in Rebirth if you didn't blow them up first.

Just something to keep in mind.

[AngEviL]

Thanks for the reply. One thing to consider with the invulnerable components is how it affects boarding. If you can't blow up those turrets, is boarding going to be impossible? They will just shoot down all the pods. At least, that's what they did in Rebirth if you didn't blow them up first.

Just something to keep in mind.

Damn, I didn't consider that. I'll add back hp to turrets.

[TR0LL]

Thanks for the reply. One thing to consider with the invulnerable components is how it affects boarding. If you can't blow up those turrets, is boarding going to be impossible? They will just shoot down all the pods. At least, that's what they did in Rebirth if you didn't blow them up first.

Just something to keep in mind.

Damn, I didn't consider that. I'll add back hp to turrets.

Thank you! I wasnt going to update because of this.

[draugar77]

Hi,
I noticed some weapons got increase of 300-1000% damage output. I'm a bit afraid that your regen system and doubled shields is not enough to compensate. 300-1000% damage vs 200% shields It's breaking my head