[#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

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Nitecom
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[#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Nitecom » Mon, 8. May 23, 13:42

Issue experienced :-
There are a number of Xenon stations around the map which they have placed, but are not sending any resources to, when investigating said station it appears to be invisible albeit I am able to target it and kill it.
Current systems the stations exist in which I can see (Thuruk's Demise III, Tharka's Ravine XXIV, Fires of Defeat) Just to note the Xenon are not being contested in these systems, I have satellites by the stations and you can see mining ships just passing them by.
I have used SETA for several hours to see if the stations would eventually build and they do not.

Possible Causes for this?
I did take the all of the south from the Xenons , however I have not noted them trying to get to the south to re-capture these systems.

Current Version 6.0 HFX2 , possible HFX1 when game was first started, around 150hrs in game.
Game has not been modified up to this point, however I did try using the Foundation of Conquests and War mod to spawn more Xenon miners/engineers and just in general more Xenon, I again used SETA to forward time to see if this would result in them building the stations and it did not.

Save Game
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mPGPph ... share_link

Nitecom
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Nitecom » Mon, 8. May 23, 15:32

Update: I have visited two more of the stations in Tharka's Ravine XXIV , a wharf and a shipyard, both have their build storage full of stuff , but both stations are invisible , they can be targeted but my bullets pass through them as if they're not there, ghost structures so to speak. Killing the storage does not despawn them.

Update: Some of the defense stations are targetable and killable, killing their build storage will result in the xenon bringing resources again to the station, however they proceed to stay in this stuck state. The hull of each object is at 15% and does not proceed past this number. Materials dropping from the storage are energy cells and silicon so they definitely have the materials to build the station.

Nitecom
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Nitecom » Tue, 9. May 23, 13:42

Bumping this back up.

Update : Played for over 10 hours yesterday and several more stations were placed by the Xenon and none of them have got past the 15% hull stage, really not sure what is causing this, has anyone else experienced a similar issue or know of any possible workarounds for it?

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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 9. May 23, 15:25

Please don't bump threads here.
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Nitecom
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Nitecom » Tue, 9. May 23, 15:53

My bad, but it's frustrating not having a response to an issue which is pretty much making my 150 hr game obsolete and a waste of time.

NilusBavarius
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Tue, 9. May 23, 18:22

Nitecom wrote:
Mon, 8. May 23, 15:32
energy cells and silicon so they definitely have the materials to build the station.
Greetings,

This is something I personally already experienced in 5.x and it was most of the time a combination of two factors (personal observation and heresay on the net):

1. Xenon need Ore, Silicon and EnergyCells - so by not having one of them in the build storage stalls the whole process
Sidenote: since some changes where made to the "trade ai" it also could additionally be that the "XEN Mining Vessels" are seeing Silicon as more important than Ore (or vice versa), without rotation of wares you only get Sil and EC. Also the "jobs" are quite limited, so if the mining vessels got mostly destroyed, it get's quite difficult for them to rebuild/expand.

2. Xenon only deliver stations in space, owned by a faction (as far as I observed) - so if your Ravine is currently "grey/unclaimed", they maybe place the building site and don't bother anymore. This has to do with a strange setting which already caused some "uproar" in some spaces while it was conceived as a solution to give the player the possibility to claim certain sectors without the factions imediately claiming them (other examples where/are Heretic's End, 2xSilent Witness, 2xTurqoise Sea, the Boneyard and the outer most Sector on the right of the Ravine).

Sidenote: In former versions it was possible to "force" the station to begin building so the module which claims the sector gets activated to claim it by delivering the building storage manually - not by trade, mind you, but by dropping the missing wares (again: Ore, Silicon, EC) on one side, placing your ship on the opposite side of the building storage and using the cargo magnet to "pull them into it".

Interestingly engough I am currently also in the process to "resettle the Xenon" into the Ravine region and have some issues with this "trick" myself as I wasn't able to get the stuff into the storage.
Maybe it has to do with the new Physics since 6.x or Ego "patched" this backdoor - I don't know but will try it again today myself.

I hope I was able to clarify it a bit and give you an idea on how to proceed...

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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Tue, 9. May 23, 19:44

NilusBavarius wrote:
Tue, 9. May 23, 18:22
will try it again today myself.
Little Update:

Seems the "sucking wares into Build Storage" -trick doesn't work anymore - bummer.
Well, if you play unmodified I am sorry for you as I have no Idea how to rescue your current game beside waiting for a new official fix/patch.

Anyway...

Have a nice one

Nitecom
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Nitecom » Tue, 9. May 23, 22:50

Thanks for the reply on my post mate , definitely makes sense with what I'm seeing, every storage I have shot only seems to drop energy and silicon, so it would appear it's missing the ore as you said!

Is it possible that this kind of issue does not happen on a modded game? I was looking to do my next play through modded anyway so if that is the case what mods would potentially stop this issue from happening?

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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Casishur » Wed, 10. May 23, 04:17

NilusBavarius wrote:
Tue, 9. May 23, 19:44
NilusBavarius wrote:
Tue, 9. May 23, 18:22
will try it again today myself.
Little Update:

Seems the "sucking wares into Build Storage" -trick doesn't work anymore - bummer.
Well, if you play unmodified I am sorry for you as I have no Idea how to rescue your current game beside waiting for a new official fix/patch.

Anyway...

Have a nice one
I noticed the problem relatively early in the beta and had already reported it as a bug. As you can see, it was quite a long time ago...
I was busy building the xenon up until this point, when it stopped working...


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Hannan1996
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Hannan1996 » Wed, 10. May 23, 10:51

NilusBavarius wrote:
Tue, 9. May 23, 18:22
Nitecom wrote:
Mon, 8. May 23, 15:32
energy cells and silicon so they definitely have the materials to build the station.
2. Xenon only deliver stations in space, owned by a faction
I see unfinished stations even inside xenon sectors sometimes. They are owned by xen, they do have plenty of resources, and I am using DA fill mod so they will never be short on resources, but still xenon’s refuse to build stations sometimes. In some test starts I did satellite coverage in xenon sectors, and was watching the process. What I found is that sometime miners just roam around this problematic stations and doing nothing. And sometimes there is no miners and this station is completely ignored.

NilusBavarius
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Wed, 10. May 23, 11:17

Hannan1996 wrote:
Wed, 10. May 23, 10:51
I see unfinished stations even inside xenon sectors sometimes. They are owned by xen, they do have plenty of resources, and I am using DA fill mod so they will never be short on resources, but still xenon’s refuse to build stations sometimes. In some test starts I did satellite coverage in xenon sectors, and was watching the process. What I found is that sometime miners just roam around this problematic stations and doing nothing. And sometimes there is no miners and this station is completely ignored.
That's interesting, thanks for sharing that!

Is this observation from 5.1 or already 6.x - if the latter it would lead to an issue of "prioritization" of the trader as I can observe station-traders, running the "auto-trade" script, ignoring one of two sellable wares (example: Supply Factory - End-Products: Food and Meds - they overdeliver Food and ignore Meds)... if this is somehow related to the "auto-mine" of the Xenon supply vessels, this would explain why they oversupply one ware and don't bother the second (Ore/Silicon).

Don't get me wrong, I am still in the early stages to get more into X4's innards and am still more or less "illiterate" in reading scripts - so take this as (un-)educated guess with a grain of salt!

As a sidenote:
I have tried to circumvent this issue with "Isse0's Cheat Menu" from the Workshop and unfortunately, while it works fine for Commonwealth and Terran build storages, it doesn't work for Xenon (Cheat->Stations->Storage->BuildStorage->SetCargo->Full).
So if anyone has an alternative or an idea/suggestion I also would be very thankful!

Cheers,
Nilus

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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Wed, 10. May 23, 11:23

Casishur wrote:
Wed, 10. May 23, 04:17
it was quite a long time ago...
I was busy building the xenon up until this point, when it stopped working...
Hey Casishur,

Thanks for the heads-up!
While going through this post (and the linked additional ones) I don't see any official statement of what/how/why and if it's even on Ego's Radar as "issue".

The strange behaviour in terms of not expanding into some sectors already got a lot attention in your and Semira's Twitch community about a year ago, as far as I remember correctly.

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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Xenon_Slayer » Wed, 10. May 23, 11:26

I've had a quick look and the stations are indeed waiting for ore to be delivered. I'll have to dig a bit deeper to figure out where the miners are and what they're doing. These stations should still be destructible in this state. If you are having issues shooting one, please provide a save of that situation.
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Wed, 10. May 23, 12:01

Xenon_Slayer wrote:
Wed, 10. May 23, 11:26
I've had a quick look and the stations are indeed waiting for ore to be delivered. I'll have to dig a bit deeper to figure out where the miners are and what they're doing. These stations should still be destructible in this state. If you are having issues shooting one, please provide a save of that situation.
Greetings Owen,

Actually, most participants here right now don't want to destroy them, but save them ... :lol: ..."Resettle Xenon Initiative" so to say.
That said, there is something weird going on with the trade scripts in general, maybe a sideeffect of a sideeffect which wasn't anticipated with the latest changes.

Cheers,
Nilus

Hannan1996
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Re: [#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Hannan1996 » Thu, 11. May 23, 22:27

Checked Xen build storages for unfinished defense platform in my save, for me there is only energy cells, no silicon, no ore. So silicon might have same problem with not being delivered

Nitecom
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Re: Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Nitecom » Fri, 12. May 23, 21:08

Xenon_Slayer wrote:
Wed, 10. May 23, 11:26
I've had a quick look and the stations are indeed waiting for ore to be delivered. I'll have to dig a bit deeper to figure out where the miners are and what they're doing. These stations should still be destructible in this state. If you are having issues shooting one, please provide a save of that situation.
There is a Shipyard and Wharf in Tharka's Ravine XXIV which are indestructable at the moment, you can target them but they are invisible and my shots pass through them, both stuck at 14% hull, saved game attached to my original post, they've been there for a few days now.

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Re: [#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 12. May 23, 23:35

If you want to peek an another save, then here is one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEU_D9 ... sp=sharing
Game 6.00 HF4 with SV, CoH, and ToA.

XEN Station in Litany of Fury IX. It has appeared there already in 5.10 HF3.
It gets ECells almost instantly. The buy offer for Silicon did disappear very recently, not immediately after update to 6.00.
It is still missing Ore.
There seems to be a XEN S Energy Supplier loitering next to it.

I did destroy similar stations from practically same spot several times during 5.10 HF3; all they ever had was ECells.
I also saw XEN S Mining fly from Emperor Mines towards Matrix #598 (during 5.10 HF3).


My hypothesis is that the supply priorities have an issue. Could it be due the number of nearby XEN Shipyards?

Since my example has had the issue already in 5.10, the phenomenon is not entirely "new in 6.00" (unless they are
separate bugs). In fact, the apparent delivery of Silicon makes 6.00 look "improved".
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Re: [#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Sat, 13. May 23, 13:00

Greetings everyone,

I've tried some changed settings for the miners as you can see here...

Code: Select all

<!-- xenon_free_miner_m_mineral
    <quota galaxy="56" cluster="8"/>
  -->
	<replace sel="//job[@id='xenon_free_miner_m_mineral']/quota/@galaxy">168</replace>
	<replace sel="//job[@id='xenon_free_miner_m_mineral']/quota/@cluster">24</replace>
...and while it had a good impact on general Xenon activity it still seems the Wharfs and Yards are main priority and new building sites are somewhat ignored. Energy distributors are way quicker and almost instant to deliver.

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Re: [#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by Hannan1996 » Sat, 13. May 23, 13:30

It would be cool if there will be subgroup of miners, about 8-10 per cluster, with blacklisted shipyards and wharfs, so they don’t bring resources there. That would solve problem I guess. Tho I have no idea how hard it would be to implement.

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Re: [#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

Post by NilusBavarius » Sat, 13. May 23, 17:45

Hannan1996 wrote:
Sat, 13. May 23, 13:30
It would be cool if there will be subgroup of miners, about 8-10 per cluster, with blacklisted shipyards and wharfs, so they don’t bring resources there. That would solve problem I guess. Tho I have no idea how hard it would be to implement.
I personally would avoid to add an extra mechanic/job to cope with a misaligned one.

While thinking about possible "easy" and compatible solutions I was thinking more about the auto-mine/auto-trade logic in general...

As far as I understand, those work with supply and demand logic, also for the Xenon [buy cheap - sell high -> first sell to highest (most demand) then the rest]... so how do we get the "ore traders" to supply the build storage in any case, even if the wharf and shipyard is crying.
Maybe a flat bonus on the price for build storage wares or a % provision, so it seems more lucrative, compared to the normal demand of a yard or wharf.
Not sure about volume, tho... I mean, if it is part of the calculation?
:gruebel:

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