X4 causing monitor burn-in

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lostboron
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X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by lostboron » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 22:47

Since I reported another bug, I thought I owed to report this one.
X4 4.10 unmodded with all DLC.
It happens in Getsu Fune, with volumetric fog disabled, MSAA enabled, and G-sync enabled. It might not matter, but I was using Kubuntu 21.10 with the latest nVidia driver (using an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070). Also probably unimportant, my monitor is an ultrawide LG 34GP83A-B.
I pause the game. The fog starts blinking. I use escape once to display the X4 menu. I leave the game for a while, come back, and my monitor has the X4 menu imprinted on it even after I restart or shut down my computer. Not cool.
Thankfully the issue was not permanent in my case. Displaying a white screen for hours basically got my monitor back to its normal state. I noticed the issue happening several times, so it is reproducable. I guess the problem could be more permanent with some other monitors.
Last edited by lostboron on Mon, 29. Nov 21, 01:12, edited 1 time in total.

adeine
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by adeine » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 23:35

It's the way your monitor is made, nothing the game can do about it. Image retention with IPS/LCD screens (where it happens) is temporary - it doesn't matter what you do, the ghost image will fade on its own and doesn't adversely affect the screen like with OLED screens where burn in due to static images adds to permanent damage. In my experience a lot of LG screens from this era suffer from this issue, where screens will degrade from the edges inwards (potential for image retention begins at the corners and works its way to the centre of the screen over time/heat cycles).

Expect it to get worse as your screen ages.

lostboron
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by lostboron » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 01:16

adeine wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 23:35
It's the way your monitor is made, nothing the game can do about it.
I don't think so. I have never seen this issue with any other software. I think it happens in this particular case (Getsu Fune with given graphics settings) because of the very rapid blinking, which is clearly a bug. This would not happen if the image was static when the game is paused (as it does normally).

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Xkuka
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by Xkuka » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 02:02

How should a game possibly cause monitor burn ins. What causes monitor burn in are the worn out crystals in your LCD in combination with static objects on the screen for longer durations. My 9yo 55" screen is showing this symtoms too, but it happens with anything that is too long without change on the screen. Like any static game interface, once i even got the YouTube logo burned in...
lostboron wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 22:47
I use escape once to display the X4 menu. I leave the game for a while, come back, and my monitor has the X4 menu imprinted on it even after I restart or shut down my computer.
How long was that "while" and how old is your monitor?
Dont worry too much, LCDs dont burn in permanently unless they are at the end of their life anyways. This usually shows then permanent dead pixels. As long as they can be revived just keep it in mind and dont leave static stuff for too long. Even a quick switch to a different picture once in a while helps preventing it.
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lostboron
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by lostboron » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 02:16

I understand you may be skeptical, I would be too before I witnessed it. But a quick search reveals other games have suffered from the same issue:
Screen Flickering and Monitor Burn-in - https://forums.newworld.com/t/screen-fl ... -in/312714
Possible monitor damage warning (burn in, flickering area) - https://steamcommunity.com/app/235460/d ... 457198542/
The cause of the burn-in is a game bug creating flickering.
Try to pause the game in Getsu Fune with Freesync/Gsync enabled, volumetric fog disabled and MSAA enabled. You might be able to reproduce it.

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Xkuka
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by Xkuka » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 03:47

lostboron wrote:
Mon, 29. Nov 21, 02:16
Try to pause the game in Getsu Fune with Freesync/Gsync enabled, volumetric fog disabled and MSAA enabled. You might be able to reproduce it.
I dont have gsync, my screen is an 9yo dude... And i never had any flickering in this game. Anyhow...
Flickering isnt exactly a game bug but a graphic glitch, in your case appearing only under certain conditions (hardwar-settings combo, ingame location, certainly not intentional game design) and the devs are not really responsible for any compatibility issue that may result of an odd combination of your setup. The sliders in the options are provided to you for a reason... :gruebel:

And you described the static part of the menu burned in temporarily, after leaving the PC for a still unknown period of time. That is a clear hint of what i described above. It might be that those flicker issues can contribute in some strange way, but what your and those cases you have linked have in common:
"extended game play sessions...game HUD seems to burn in rather easily"
"I stepped away from the computer while the character selection screen was showing" <- does not provide anything than the initial report.
"I leave the game for a while...X4 menu imprinted"


I make in return a suggestion, solve the flicker by adjusting the options, then leave the option menu on the screen again and see if it burns in without flickering. :idea:
It might be annoying right now, but i am trained to track down such issues. Go for the obvious commonalities first...

Btw never believe the clients error report. The problem is in 90% of the cases right infront of the screen, not behind it... professional experience. No offense... :D
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adeine
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by adeine » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 07:17

lostboron wrote:
Mon, 29. Nov 21, 01:16
adeine wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 23:35
It's the way your monitor is made, nothing the game can do about it.
I don't think so. I have never seen this issue with any other software. I think it happens in this particular case (Getsu Fune with given graphics settings) because of the very rapid blinking, which is clearly a bug. This would not happen if the image was static when the game is paused (as it does normally).
While flickering can cause some weird transient effects on some screens (one LG screen I've used will 'ghost flicker' for a bit in the space where a high contrast rapid flickering image was displayed for a while) I don't think it would lead to image retention of other parts of the image. Try leaving the menu on a static background, I doubt it makes a difference.

Xkuka wrote:
Mon, 29. Nov 21, 02:02
How should a game possibly cause monitor burn ins. What causes monitor burn in are the worn out crystals in your LCD in combination with static objects on the screen for longer durations. My 9yo 55" screen is showing this symtoms too, but it happens with anything that is too long without change on the screen. Like any static game interface, once i even got the YouTube logo burned in...
lostboron wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 22:47
I use escape once to display the X4 menu. I leave the game for a while, come back, and my monitor has the X4 menu imprinted on it even after I restart or shut down my computer.
How long was that "while" and how old is your monitor?
Dont worry too much, LCDs dont burn in permanently unless they are at the end of their life anyways. This usually shows then permanent dead pixels. As long as they can be revived just keep it in mind and dont leave static stuff for too long. Even a quick switch to a different picture once in a while helps preventing it.
Leaving static images on LCDs doesn't worsen or even cause this issue in most cases, definitely regarding the LG screen issues mentioned. It's an effect of the panel chemically degrading over time, which is accelerated by heat. The parts of the screen that have become 'lazy' (i.e. prone to image retention) will always have that tendency, regardless of whether you leave static content on or not - you just don't see the issue with moving content.

As time goes on and the panel gets worse, image retention happens quicker and more prominently.

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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by linolafett » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 09:32

I would suggest to create a bug report about the flickering, as this is the original issue.
Please provide the requested information and maybe even a video in which we can see the flickering.
Thats the only way we have a remote chance of finding the issue and fixing it.
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Imperial Good
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 11:38

Wikipedia has a good article on the subject of LCD image persistence. What was reported is entirely normal for LCD display technology and not directly caused by X4. As expected, letting the display relax in one state fixed the issue, and using the screen as normal likely would have also fixed it over time.

The flickering, which might or might not have had an influence on the image persistence, probably is a bug. I recommend supplying the requested information.

Due to the UI colour scheme of X4 I can imagine it being prone to image persistence, especially at high contrast levels or over saturated colours. To avoid image persistence problems in the future I recommend turning off the monitor if you are walking away from the computer for a few minutes. You can also minimize to something more neutral or uniform if you want to keep the display powered during that time. If image persistence does occur, then it should fade naturally over time during normal use. If you really cannot stand it then turning off the display for an extended period or showing a mostly white image, like you did, should fix it.

Alan Phipps
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 12:20

The flickering *might* be associated with this reported issue.
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adeine
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Re: X4 causing monitor burn-in

Post by adeine » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 13:18

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 29. Nov 21, 11:38
Wikipedia has a good article on the subject of LCD image persistence.
The article doesn't really cover what is happening with these displays. It's not really image retention due to static images or individual pixels in the typical sense, but a degradation of the screen as a whole that over time leads to image retention happening in normal use.

Here are some reports with pictures of these issues with LG IPS panels: 1, 2, 3, 4

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