PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

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kmunoz
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PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by kmunoz » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 05:21

Not sure where else to put this, but I figured someone might find it useful.

There is a very common problem with the T.16000M joystick where the twist axis gets possessed and starts activating on its own. This makes it basically impossible to bind the twist axis to anything, since that axis will always be "noisy" even when the deadzone is really wide.

Most fixes described online suggest dismantling the entire stalk, which involves some really fiddly work with button plungers and other tiny parts that fall off when you look at them cross-eyed.

However, I've discovered that the solution offered in the following video works just as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=688J7pf ... ndito70030

The video is sloppy. Really, really sloppy. But it gives you the idea. (He suggests using WD-40 but that's a bad suggestion. Just use isopropyl alcohol, preferably a high concentration, so that it evaporates quickly.)

Here's the basic rundown to fix the jittery/noisy twist axis:

- Tools required: 1x small Philips head screwdriver, 1x Q-Tip, 1x bottle of isopropyl alcohol (you need a tiny amount of alcohol for this, so if you don't have any, don't go and buy a jug of the stuff, unless you need it for other things)

- Remove the handrest. This involves two screws at the very bottom of the stalk, and one just above and between them. Once those screws are out, the handrest comes apart in two pieces.

- Remove the rubber "bumper" on the right side of the stalk. (If left-handed, it's on the left side).

- Remove the single screw in the middle recess behind the right rubber bumper that you've just taken off.

- Remove the left rubber bumper (the thumb rest).

- Remove the screw in the top recess revealed behind the left rubber bumper. (Note that it's very well screwed in. When you go to put it back together, you will need to screw this one in the tightest, because the rubber bumper has a piece sticking out that needs to fit into the recess without getting stopped by the screw.)

- Remove the screw straight down from there, below where the left rubber bumper was. It's on the front side of the stalk, screwed in from the left. (I think the video misses this one.)

- Remove the screw behind the orange index trigger (between the trigger and the stalk). This is NOT the pin that goes through the trigger. You will not have to remove the pin.

- Carefully (but not too carefully) pull the two halves of the stalk apart. You only need to move them about 1/2 an inch at the bottom of the stalk, which reveals about 1/4 an inch about 2/3 of the way up. You are not taking the thing apart, you're just revealing the interior. If you pull to much, either the stalk will break or all of the button plungers will fall out and disappear to wherever socks do after they've been through the dryer. This is the part that most videos "get wrong" - YOU DO NOT NEED TO COMPLETELY SEPARATE THE STALK HALVES.

- You should now see the twist axis sensor, if you peek through the gap you've just made. It's a square plastic plate with a round recess in the top of it.

- Take a Q-tip and squirt/dip some isopropyl onto the cotton. Rub the cotton tip on the top of the sensor. It doesn't require much, all you're really doing to getting rid of the dust that has collected there because Thrustmaster was dumb enough to orient the sensor upwards instead of downwards.

- Close up the stalk and put all the screws back.

- You're done.

I don't know how long it lasts, but since the whole process took me maybe 5 minutes, it's easily repeatable.

Seriously. I'm all thumbs. I have a power supply that I need to put into my computer so it stops shutting down randomly and I do not have the confidence level necessary to unplug things and remember where they go. Trust me, the above steps are dead simple. The only way you can mess up is if you lose a screw or get overzealous and yank the two stalk halves too far apart.
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Skeeter
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by Skeeter » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 05:46

Is it related to this topic?

viewtopic.php?f=180&t=440921

Reason i ask is that you state a issue with axis and you mention a inadequate psu, the psu if its powering the flight stick could be why your getting axis issues as in the thread i linked, it says it needs a solid power draw. And if your having power issues it could be that.
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kmunoz
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by kmunoz » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 06:03

Skeeter wrote:
Sun, 10. Oct 21, 05:46
Is it related to this topic?

viewtopic.php?f=180&t=440921

Reason i ask is that you state a issue with axis and you mention a inadequate psu, the psu if its powering the flight stick could be why your getting axis issues as in the thread i linked, it says it needs a solid power draw. And if your having power issues it could be that.
It's an interesting thought but I don't think it's related, for a variety of reasons. My PSU is definitely underpowered, but the issue with the T.16000M *only* impacts the twist axis. It has no impact on other elements, which is what you would expect if there were power fluctuations involved. Further, the problem with the twist axis, and the general solution (cleaning the sensor) is so well known that there are about a dozen videos on YouTube documenting it. And once the repair is completed (either by removing the whole stalk to clean it, doing the repair as I described, or - in one super nerdy case - replacing the sensor with a different kind entirely), the problem goes away, without any adjustment of the PSU. This is consistent across the board for the people discussing it on YouTube, and it's my experience as well (at least for the past day, since I did the fix.) I replaced my stick once, and the replacement was fine for about a year and then developed the problem. The jittering is noticeable also inside the controller settings control panel in Windows, even when no other programs are running and the processors (GPU, CPU) are not taxing the power supply. And finally, I've been having this problem with the stick (well, the first one, and then the second one) since before the release of X4, and I've only had power issues in the last year. That corresponds to the slow creep of processing power required by newer games (and by X4, with each new DLC) - I'm hitting the limit of my crummy PSU now, whereas 3 years ago I was well within tolerances.
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Submarine
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by Submarine » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 08:54

I am not convinced the PSU has much to do with it TBH, I had the same problems with a high capacity Seasonic PSU and IMHO it is due to the cheap potentiometers Thrustmaster use.

I had three T16000Ms, one green and two amber iterations and each broke in its own way.

The last had twist jitter after a year which got worse when I tried the alcohol cleaning method and it only registered half the twist range, while the first lost use of its slider as the control knob broke off and the second trigger switch would not work much of the time; all three had problems with not zeroing XY never mind Z.

I salvaged two to fix one but after trying a Logitech 3D Pro which worked OK but also did not zero, decided you get what you pay for and splashed out for a Virpil WarBRD base with Constellation (alpha) grip and have found it satisfactory.

It is a lot of money and I am not trying to advertise for them, just reporting my findings. Its in the order of 10x the price but if I tot up the amount spent on cheap joysticks which broke I think in the long term it will be a saving and the ease of use, good zeroing and reliability is incomparably better and freedom from irritation is worth it IMHO. I switched it over to a cosmosim soft center detent cam set which gives easy even control for the space sim environment and still zeros reliably. And so many buttons!

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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by furirkeeper » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 14:49

I have had this problem with my T16000 hotas for a long time. Both the z-axis on the joystick and the z-axis on the throttle.
I am able to work around it by "exercising" the z-axis just before I start playing. My thought is that this helps spread the lubrication and possibly rubs off anything that prevent good contact.
My joystick have been like this since the release of X4 and I can still play without problem if I do this before each time.
I have never opened this specific part of the joystick.

Also if I anyway get som jitter I have found that simply disconnecting and reconnecting the joystick while in-game helps. But I have not done this many times.

kmunoz
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by kmunoz » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 17:20

furirkeeper wrote:
Sun, 10. Oct 21, 14:49
I am able to work around it by "exercising" the z-axis just before I start playing.
And in my case I had the opposite problem. The longer I used the axis, the worse the problem got.

It's unfortunate that this stick has such a defect. I really love the feel of it overall, both the stick and the throttle. (And I've had problems with the z axis paddle on the throttle too.) But it's just not very well built internally.

At some point I'm going to replace it with a different HOTAS entirely, but I'm going to miss the very comfortable feel of the T.16000M.
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by Submarine » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 20:44

kmunoz wrote:
Sun, 10. Oct 21, 17:20
furirkeeper wrote:
Sun, 10. Oct 21, 14:49
I am able to work around it by "exercising" the z-axis just before I start playing.
And in my case I had the opposite problem. The longer I used the axis, the worse the problem got.

It's unfortunate that this stick has such a defect. I really love the feel of it overall, both the stick and the throttle. (And I've had problems with the z axis paddle on the throttle too.) But it's just not very well built internally.

At some point I'm going to replace it with a different HOTAS entirely, but I'm going to miss the very comfortable feel of the T.16000M.
Yes the T16000M is an ergonomic size and its true that the Virpil combination is a bit tall for desktops by comparison but a few mats under my elbow fixed it.

I want to argue that cheap and unreliable components are a false economy but I expect they sell a lot of them and it will probably save them money until a better competitor turns up. I was definitely put off getting a higher tier Thrustmaster by the experience of three T16000Ms' components failing though so there is the reputation angle.

I used my Microsoft Sidewinder for years, until the plug interface went obsolete. They dont make them like they used to!
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kmunoz
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by kmunoz » Mon, 11. Oct 21, 01:29

Submarine wrote:
Sun, 10. Oct 21, 20:44
I used my Microsoft Sidewinder for years, until the plug interface went obsolete. They dont make them like they used to!
Nothing has ever come close to the Atari 2600 joystick... ;) You could throw that thing across the room and it wouldn't even notice.
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sirprosik
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Re: PSA: For players with jittery twist axis on T.16000M stick

Post by sirprosik » Tue, 12. Oct 21, 03:36

A Microsoft Precision pro became jittery. Then I bought a Logitech Wingman extreme which lasted quite a while.
Bought two t16000m both had issues with the z-axis twist upon receipt from Amazon while playing X3.
Still have a great Sidewinder 3d pro but have yet to buy one of these ...
http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?f=8& ... &start=280

Finally got tired of buying cheap and lasting only a few years when the price explosion of joysticks
started with the release of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. At one point t16000m's were 150 bucks
at Amazon. Found https://vkbcontrollers.com

These are a bit more expensive than Thrustmaster however much better designed and reliable.

Currently using a Gladiator NXT premium without issues especially with the z-axis twist :)

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