[4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay - In-game warning coming in a future build.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 21:57

Alan Phipps wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 19:34
Random idea but you are not both using any sort of smart or interactive map for X4 are you? There was a case in X3 where a 3rd party interactive map was polling game state and conditions in-game and was triggering a modified flag in doing so.
No I do not use any such third party tool. I do have the extractor tools to look at game data files but I do not run that while playing (usually run it once every patch or so to look for changes).

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by furirkeeper » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 08:26

I have around 1000 hours logged in steam for X4 and this has happened once for me in v4.0. I posted about it in this forum. I was never able to conclude why it happened and in the end I made no changes to my system settings.
Bugs/events of this kind which has the potential to destroy everything you have done in the game so far is enough to make me stop playing. I am right now playing other games but am keeping an eye on this forum.

Since this is such a major event, which logically should be very rare. I mean how often does a player decide to go from unmodded to modded, I propose the following.

"In the function that marks the current game play as modified":
prev_state = state;
state = check_if_game_is_modded();
if (prev_state != state)
{
pause_game();
display_full_screen_splash_state_chance();
wait_for_user_confirmation();
}

Finally I would like to note two things, correct me if I am wrong:
1) File corruption is a quite serious error on a system, which could break the whole OS, or particular programs completely.
2) Why is X4 so prone to corruption when no other files for system or other games suffer from this? I mean, if I have a system unstable enough to corrupt X4 files, why am I not seeing the same thing for other programs?

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 13:59

It has to be 'situational' or else it would be happening to everyone. It isn't happening to my vanilla 4.10 used online with Steam, for example.
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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by furirkeeper » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 14:22

Alan Phipps wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 13:59
It has to be 'situational' or else it would be happening to everyone. It isn't happening to my vanilla 4.10 used online with Steam, for example.
Like most unintended behaivor, I suspect this happens when A_1, A_2, ..., A_N is true. It is only that if N is larger than 1 then it can be quite tricky to figure out. I suspect this is what you mean by "situational"?

Since Egosoft quite boldly state that this is not a bug on their part then it is up to each and every one of us users to try and figure out why this happens. I don't really see that happening anytime soon. So in the mean time perhaps Egosoft could be kind and make it super clear exactly when the state change so that users don't waste their time. Also, such a detection could help alot when trying to figure out why this happens since we will know exactly what we did at that time, flying this or that or alt-tabbing, saving etc...

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Tempest » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 14:37

furirkeeper wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 14:22
Alan Phipps wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 13:59
It has to be 'situational' or else it would be happening to everyone. It isn't happening to my vanilla 4.10 used online with Steam, for example.
Like most unintended behaivor, I suspect this happens when A_1, A_2, ..., A_N is true. It is only that if N is larger than 1 then it can be quite tricky to figure out. I suspect this is what you mean by "situational"?

Since Egosoft quite boldly state that this is not a bug on their part then it is up to each and every one of us users to try and figure out why this happens. I don't really see that happening anytime soon. So in the mean time perhaps Egosoft could be kind and make it super clear exactly when the state change so that users don't waste their time. Also, such a detection could help alot when trying to figure out why this happens since we will know exactly what we did at that time, flying this or that or alt-tabbing, saving etc...
an early warning system would be helpful, we have a small safety-net with our 3 autosave slots only. (in my case i lost ~3 hours once over a 2500+ hour steam total, i had manual backups, but i don't think you can expect regular users to be vigilant to this degree imo)

not really in X4's defense, but you must admit it IS a very special case for X4, i love my steam achievements, 29/30 into trade-rank, noone will EVER care, but i do. can't really think of any game this relgious about it's savegame integrity (non MMO's or server-stored client profiles that is)
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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 15:32

furirkeeper wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 08:26
1) File corruption is a quite serious error on a system, which could break the whole OS, or particular programs completely.
Which is why I doubt it is file corruption. Especially since steam does not find any errors when verifying the files. SSDs even have built in error detection to some extent, so the chance of data corruption on a correctly working, powered every day and young drive is very unlikely.
furirkeeper wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 08:26
2) Why is X4 so prone to corruption when no other files for system or other games suffer from this? I mean, if I have a system unstable enough to corrupt X4 files, why am I not seeing the same thing for other programs?
If it was memory related corruption it could be due to how it accesses memory. Certain access patterns are less stable than others. However if this was the case I would expect other errors and significantly more crashes rather than it just resulting in X4 being known as modified every time. Given what the devs have responded it is more likely that something goes wrong during I/O.
Alan Phipps wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 13:59
It has to be 'situational' or else it would be happening to everyone. It isn't happening to my vanilla 4.10 used online with Steam, for example.
It seems very random when it does happen. The other day I played 4.10 for over 4 hours without problem, still being unmodified by the end. Then yesterday I was playing for just 15 minutes and X4 became known as modified.

So far the only correlation, that ties into what other people are reporting, is heavy space combat. With me all the times it has happened I have been flying an L destroyer shooting up Xenon.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by CBJ » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 15:40

I can assure you that what you are doing in-game has no correlation, so there is no point in continuing to report that.

Didn't we already establish in your case, that part of the problem was that you were using remote file storage? This would almost certainly have a detrimental effect on the game's ability to verify files.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 17:46

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 15:40
Didn't we already establish in your case, that part of the problem was that you were using remote file storage? This would almost certainly have a detrimental effect on the game's ability to verify files.
No we did not. As the entire X4 program files are not touched by OneDrive as I have mentioned previously. X4 is installed on a NVMe drive attached to the motherboard chipset (should not make a difference, like it has not in the past, it is as "remote" as SATA drives which also run through the chipset) with the install folder neither being backed up by cloud storage or being touched by antivirus. Only the documents folder is backed up by cloud storage, and again that has not caused any issues in the past, and if it can now then an explanation would be nice.

The problem still happens very frequently, having happened twice in the course of 3 hours. I have started logging and noticed the following has a correlation with X4 becoming modified.

Code: Select all

Log when first time X4 became modified today.
[General] 264013.00 ======================================
[General] 264015.31 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 264015.31 CheckGzipHeader() not a gzip source buffer, magic bytes don't match!
[General] 264015.31 ======================================
[General] 264016.68 ======================================

Log when second time X4 became modified today.
[General] 264800.70 ======================================
[General] 265135.19 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 265135.19 CheckGzipHeader() not a gzip source buffer, magic bytes don't match!
[General] 265135.19 ======================================
[General] 265135.19 ======================================
It seems as if it is trying to decompress data that is not compressed by gzip or is corrupt? I do not know where these bytes are being sourced or what they are intended for as the logs do not seem to mention it.

I will try to delete the entire X4 install folder and redownload it completely. This will rule out that steam verify is not verifying all the files correctly.

EDIT:
So far it seems to be just a specific file causing the problem.

Code: Select all

[FileIO ] 271361.55 File I/O: Failed to verify the file signature for file '.\extensions\ego_dlc_terran\assets\textures\environments\planets\jupiter_4k_diffhq.gz' (error: 13)
[General] 271361.55 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 271361.55 CheckGzipHeader() not a gzip source buffer, magic bytes don't match!
[General] 271361.55 ======================================
Last 2 times X4 turned modified seem to be due to this file. Although steam verification found no issues I have deleted the entire terran DLC folder and had steam verify redownload it just in case and will be trying to recreate again.

This should mean that OneDrive can be completely ruled out since it is not touching the X4 program files. Neither is antivirus.

It seems the trigger is me doing something in either station or ship editor while on a L ship in combat. If it triggers is still seemingly random with not all uses of those tools causing it. A possible reason why this is so rare is that the player has to explicitly build in Jupiter for it to occur.

Since this is a texture it is sometimes failing on, could it be related to VRAM utilisation changes made by 4.10? My GPU only has 4 GB VRAM which used to be above the minimum requirements but is on the low end by modern GPU standards. Would updating graphic drivers maybe help?

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by furirkeeper » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 09:44

Very interesting find!
If something related to COH textures is the problem that could explain why this happened to me in v4.0 after 900 problem free hours of play in versions before 4.0.
I haven't built anything in Jupiter though. Regarding flying L, I don't know. But I was clearing out Xenon sectors at the time so not impossible I was in an L. And not impossible I at some point was in Jupiter.

For explanations why this happens I cannot offer more than wild guesses, so I am not going to waste anyones time with those.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by CBJ » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 17:00

We have thoroughly checked all the Steam and GOG builds today, and none of them have problems with that file, either in terms of it being invalid or with it not being recognised as unmodified. We've also had someone spend several hours trying to reproduce the problem, without success. I'm afraid that takes us back to the original position, that whatever is causing this is something specific to your PC, be it file corruption or file access issues caused by other software.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by furirkeeper » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 17:15

Thanks CBJ, and Egosoft, for taking the time to investigate this. It seems we need to further narrow this down before we are able to pinpoint why this happens.

These Jupiter textures, are they heavier to load in any sense compared to textures from pre-COH? Is there any chance that this could be due to system load or overloaded system busses not coping with this specific file?

Would a direct popup when the modified tag is detected be difficult to implement? What is Egosofts take on such an indication?

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by peteran » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 17:39

furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 17:15
Thanks CBJ, and Egosoft, for taking the time to investigate this. It seems we need to further narrow this down before we are able to pinpoint why this happens.
Personally I am very interested in drilling down to the root cause of this (even if it doesn't affect me). My gut feeling is that there are more people that are affected and they will mostly find out once ventures are launched in the future.
furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 17:15
These Jupiter textures, are they heavier to load in any sense compared to textures from pre-COH? Is there any chance that this could be due to system load or overloaded system busses not coping with this specific file?
From what I saw, the DDS files aren't different from others. A possibility might be that there's a problem with graphics memory management, but why that would cause signature verification to fail is beyond me.
furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 17:15
Would a direct popup when the modified tag is detected be difficult to implement? What is Egosofts take on such an indication?
I think a popup is a good idea since usually you wan't to revert back to an unmodified state (be that either a manual or auto save). Or at the very least, you're probably not going to play much further with a modified save.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 22:45

I deleted the entire Call of Humanity DLC program files and redownloaded them using steam's verify feature (no other program files were deleted, ~1.7 GB download). This feature previously (before I deleted the files manually) said all the files were correct and did not report any issue. So far the issue appears to have gone away with me being unable to trigger it.

This sort of solution leaves a bitter taste because it still does not explain why it happened in the first place. I verified that all the X4 program files were correct by comparing hashes (SHA) with someone else who did not have the issue, especially those files. Steam verify said they were all correct as well. Samsung's self SMART test detected no issue with the drive. No other games on the drive have issues. It also still is running off the same drive without problems at the moment.

This leaves only two conclusions. The first, which is improbable, is that somehow that one part of that one file would occasionally (not all the time) read incorrectly in a way that both managed to pass the SSD's memory controller's ECC and was consistently repeatable just for that chunk holding that one file. The other, which is more probable, being that there is some condition in X4 that is difficult to meet, possibly with specific hardware such as older 4 GB GPUs like the GTX 760 or 12 core CPUs with multiple chiplets, that causes this error to occur and I just have happened to pass by that condition and been lucky not to meet it since, and might even have been lucky not to meet all the time before.

Due to the random nature of the problem (sometimes happened in under 15 minutes, other time hours were fine), I cannot even conclude that it is solved as I might just be "lucky" and not have encountered it. However I can conclude that this almost certainly has nothing to do with OneDrive backing my documents (not the program data files) and that turning the anti-virus file protection off did not help at all in this case.

I still recommend for future updates that a notification dialog (or some sort of message) be presented should the game fail to verify a file and change to be marked as modified, including which file it failed to verify or at least the source of that file. Not only would this have saved players like myself a considerable amount of play time by knowing the instant the issue occurred (not when I next checked Esc and even noticed it had happened to begin with), but it might also allow more relevant advice targeting where the problem happened. It also does seem strange that many people have ended up with modified saves without using mods, at least that I have seen on discord, but I cannot rule out other causes for their cases. For now I will keep checking every 15 minutes or so of playing the menu if X4 becomes marked as modified and I would advise other people playing not modified games to also check for the modification flag before saving in case they run into a similar problem.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by furirkeeper » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 23:09

As I might have said before I am no expert on these things. Is it possible that a corrupted version of the file could be stored in RAM and that the cached version is the source for the missmatch? I guess RAM is cleared every time you reboot? Maybe a bad RAM module?
I am just guessing wildly. Why else would the files on disc all be ok? Or maybe the process of reading the file is flawed somehow?

Anyway keep us updated. Either you have found a viable workaround or you or you have just showed that the file integrity on disc is not the issue.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 23:50

furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 23:09
Is it possible that a corrupted version of the file could be stored in RAM and that the cached version is the source for the missmatch?
Should not be possible as X4 does not even cache the data files to the file cache last I checked (back in 1.XX). It used read through mode. This also has got me thinking since not many other games (none I own...) use read through mode for I/O...
furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 23:09
guess RAM is cleared every time you reboot?
Yes restarting flushes RAM. It even flushes the drivers in Windows, something normal shutdown does not do (that pages out the drivers for fast start).
furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 23:09
Maybe a bad RAM module?
I ran RAM check, which implicitly forces a restart. No errors were detected so if it was then it would need to be some very rare or extreme error that is hard/unreliable to trigger.
furirkeeper wrote:
Fri, 24. Sep 21, 23:09
Or maybe the process of reading the file is flawed somehow?
I am unsure of the exact cause sequence. If the signature failed verification because the file failed decompression (so it could not hash the file to get a signature) then that could be caused by anything that makes the file fail decompression, including read requests failing, incomplete reads, the read memory being overwritten, the read memory suffering from a race condition with another thread, or since it uses read through mode even memory misalignment, e.t.c. Given that X4 reads thousands of files all the time while playing its read process works as good as all the time. I ranked up over 1,200 hours since 1.00 with X4 installed on 3 different drives during that time period, including a mechanic drive, and only that file in those cases reported above seemed to have had problems being read reliably.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 07:01

After further testing this is not fixed. Just had the same error with the same file occur costing me at least 15 minutes of game time.

Code: Select all

[FileIO ] 308480.74 File I/O: Failed to verify the file signature for file '.\extensions\ego_dlc_terran\assets\textures\environments\planets\jupiter_4k_diffhq.gz' (error: 13)
[General] 308480.74 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 308480.74 CheckGzipHeader() not a gzip source buffer, magic bytes don't match!
[General] 308480.74 ======================================
This is after having played for 4 hours without problem (and luckily making many saves!), having completely redownload that file, having that file excluded from anti virus and not having any X4 program files backed up by cloud storage. This time I think it triggered while flying an Asguard.

What is this texture anyway? As a guess it is the diffuse for Jupiter as seen in the background of the Jupiter sector? During that 4 hours I entered Jupiter dozens of times and Jupiter looked fine as well. If this is the case it would mean that sometimes it fails for some reason. What is special about that file? Is the texture larger than average? Or is it handled differently due to being a planet texture?

My only conclusion so far must be that either X4 has some very obscure compatibility issue with my hardware that occasionally occurs, or the trigger is extremely convoluted and something most people are unlikely to encounter and I am just unfortunate to be frequently stumbling into it (large base of operations in Jupiter).

Something I did notice this time was that I enabled the logical overview graphs to look at various station statistics. I wonder if it is an interaction with that, the stations being in Jupiter and loading Jupiter for the background while heavy combat is occurring nearby in an L or XL ship.

Moving forward I will update my graphic driver, motherboard BIOS and chipset drivers in case those help. However I do not see how that could fix it failing for just that specific file.

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by alt3rn1ty » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 08:26

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 26. Sep 21, 07:01
What is this texture anyway? As a guess it is the diffuse for Jupiter as seen in the background of the Jupiter sector?
@Egosoft

Has Egosofts Graphic artists looked into the textures formats for CoH.

Reason I ask is at one time I looked into X4 Foundations textures and there were some (just a couple) of Planet / Asteroid textures which were pretty unusual DDS formats in there.

So unusual that Photoshops new Intel DDS plugin (Intel Texture Works) at the time, could not load them correctly. I sent privately details of the unusual files formats to the developers of Intel Texture Works and DirectXTex and eventually they resolved being able to load them. The reason they gave for a few of the formats not being included was because very few games these days used them.

The resulting updates to the open source project for that has also had knock on effects on other software (even Paint.NET with its new included DDSFileTypes plugin by null54) can now load the same ..

TLDR: So I wonder if CoH has any of these unusual DDS formatted textures, which some graphics drivers (or even the games engine itself) maybe cant handle properly?.

Edit: And apologies I can't provide any more detail of the unusual format or files involved, its a few years ago now since I was looking into them (aiming to reduce the size of some of the biggest game textures for laptops challenged in the GPU department, which were planet / asteroid type textures), and the Intel Texture Works problem was thereafter resolved, I cant find anything else where I mentioned them specifically in public (I didn't want to potentially publicly embarrass Egosoft so kept mention of them to a minimum).
I assume the game engine handles its own textures in whatever unusual format of DDS chosen by the graphics artist, but after reading this topic .. Maybe it doesn't handle all of them graciously (there are many different DDS format combinations possible).
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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 15:47

alt3rn1ty wrote:
Sun, 26. Sep 21, 08:26
TLDR: So I wonder if CoH has any of these unusual DDS formatted textures, which some graphics drivers (or even the games engine itself) maybe cant handle properly?.
If this was the case then this would likely be a bug with X4 since if the GPU fails to ingest the texture it should still pass signature verification as the file should still be correct. Unless a shader is used to verify the texture without CPU fallback?

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Thu, 30. Sep 21, 04:40

Updated my graphic drivers. Has not helped.

However this time a different file failed. Again the file type seems similar, but this time for Mercury. It must have triggered when I went to construction view of my solar power station there.

Code: Select all

FileIO ] 338578.23 File I/O: Failed to verify the file signature for file '.\extensions\ego_dlc_terran\assets\textures\environments\planets\mercury_4k_diffhq.gz' (error: 13)
[General] 338578.23 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 338578.23 CheckGzipHeader() not a gzip source buffer, magic bytes don't match!
[General] 338578.23 ======================================
I wonder if the file is failing to load for some other reason, and because it did not load the signature check fails. The file seems to be a cloud layer of sorts as it loaded mostly transparent for me?

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Re: [4.10] X4 "Modifying" Itself During Gameplay.

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 3. Oct 21, 05:12

Happened again after 3 hours of play, resulting in 10 minutes lost. There is a very strong correlation between me opening the station plan build window and this error occurring. Specifically with the planet texture, or at least that is what has been observed so far.

Code: Select all

FileIO ] 358459.75 File I/O: Failed to verify the file signature for file '.\extensions\ego_dlc_terran\assets\textures\environments\planets\jupiter_4k_diffhq.gz' (error: 13)
[General] 358459.75 ======================================
[=ERROR=] 358459.75 CheckGzipHeader() not a gzip source buffer, magic bytes don't match!
[General] 358459.75 ======================================
This time it was me modifying my Silicon Carbide factory. As I opened the window it must have triggered... I know this because I have been saving frequently before opening that window and that was the last thing I opened involving Jupiter.

Given that it is due to loading a planet's texture, I would not be surprised if it is caused by the new sector background view feature. I will try turning it off for most of my edits to see if it makes a difference.

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