[4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Resolved in riser settings.

Ask here if you experience technical problems with X4: Foundations.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Post Reply
SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

[4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Resolved in riser settings.

Post by SteelCityColt » Sun, 19. Sep 21, 19:01

Finally pulled the plug on X4 but getting very frustrated by the constant crashing to the desktop. Doesn't seem to have specific trigger, and can be 5 mins or a hour into playing. Pure vanilla on the Young Gun (?) start.

Dump file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wJ8_Md ... sp=sharing
DXDIAG: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KvmUWB ... sp=sharing

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 51740
Joined: Tue, 29. Apr 03, 00:56
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by CBJ » Sun, 19. Sep 21, 20:40

The dump file indicates a "lost device" error. There can be a variety of causes for this, but one of the most common is overclocking resulting in Vulkan losing contact with the hardware. Is any part of your system overclocked? If so then please try without the overclock.

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by SteelCityColt » Sun, 19. Sep 21, 20:42

Hi thanks for the info. nothing overclocked ASFAIK but I will double check.

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by SteelCityColt » Mon, 20. Sep 21, 00:19

No overclocks on the system and GPU behaves itself in everything else, including something like Furmark. I did a clean/remove of drivers and reinstalled. Same crashes but now I don't get a DrDump pop up.

Latest Crash Dump: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jkm_pC ... sp=sharing

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by SteelCityColt » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 11:21

CBJ wrote:
Sun, 19. Sep 21, 20:40
The dump file indicates a "lost device" error. There can be a variety of causes for this, but one of the most common is overclocking resulting in Vulkan losing contact with the hardware. Is any part of your system overclocked? If so then please try without the overclock.
When you say a variety of causes, would using a riser potentially be one?

timon37
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri, 14. Dec 12, 11:02
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by timon37 » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 13:21

Hi, the riser could be a problem, although if it was I'd expect other games and likely the os to experience issues as well (e.g. intermittent freezes, screen blanking, reboots).
Certainly worth testing if you can, but you can defer it for later if it's difficult to try.

First thing is that it seems your page-file and likely system memory consumption is a bit high, if you run out of memory the nvidia driver could block long enough to cause this issue.
Can you try identifying what is consuming memory, closing as much as possible then running X4?

Second thing I'd like you to try is in steam, in x4 properties, betas, select the 4.00 version.
Note your current savegames won't be loadable in that version, and if you play a while autosaves will get overwritten!
So preferably backup all saves or make sure to not overwrite the ones you care about, they should be in: Documents\Egosoft\X4\<steamid>\save.

Tempest
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue, 11. Dec 18, 12:23
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Devs on the case.

Post by Tempest » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 15:05

Hi @ OP,

we have somewhat identical machines.

i had occasional CTD's (not at frequent as yours though it seems)

been experimenting the last few days with Linux, and it has the same problem, reverted back to windows 10 again recently, issue remained.

my current stable situation seems to be with a default profile in Ryzen Master ( Default / OC / Auto tab in "easy" mode) (it won't boost past ~4.8GHz ish)
running bios F35 on my x570 Aorus Elite (as im writing this i see F36c available) hesitant to recommend a Bios upgrade, as it is not 0% Risk, so you might want to get help with that if not 100% confident. RAM = coupled mode, my 3800 DDR4 sticks are set to 3600 to match the CPU FCLK 1800 (you can check this in Ryzen master)


my game has been running since late Sunday as of this moment (my Energy company absolutely loves me :) )

i still want to OC at some point and get the most out of the system, but right now it is just too unreliable for daily, prolonged, use. ryzen 5000 is pretty complex, if you want, you can have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/k ... bo_got_me/ fairly detailed info for properly setting PPT/TDC/EDC. (TLDR; lowered voltage will result in higher clocks)
AMD 5800X|Gskill 4x8GB 3800C14 (MCLK:1800 for Coupled mode)|Gigabyte X570 Elite F37|TUF3080|Samsung NVME 980 Pro 250|ASUS PG279QE 2560x1440@144
Image

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by SteelCityColt » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 16:38

timon37 wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 13:21
Hi, the riser could be a problem, although if it was I'd expect other games and likely the os to experience issues as well (e.g. intermittent freezes, screen blanking, reboots).
Certainly worth testing if you can, but you can defer it for later if it's difficult to try.

First thing is that it seems your page-file and likely system memory consumption is a bit high, if you run out of memory the nvidia driver could block long enough to cause this issue.
Can you try identifying what is consuming memory, closing as much as possible then running X4?

Second thing I'd like you to try is in steam, in x4 properties, betas, select the 4.00 version.
Note your current savegames won't be loadable in that version, and if you play a while autosaves will get overwritten!
So preferably backup all saves or make sure to not overwrite the ones you care about, they should be in: Documents\Egosoft\X4\<steamid>\save.
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but where do I find the page file size, in DXDIAG? I had looked at the setting within Windows and it's ticked to auto manage and a current size of 4864MB. I'll have a check that nothing else is hogging memory and test.

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Devs on the case.

Post by SteelCityColt » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 16:40

Tempest wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 15:05
Hi @ OP,

we have somewhat identical machines.

i had occasional CTD's (not at frequent as yours though it seems)

been experimenting the last few days with Linux, and it has the same problem, reverted back to windows 10 again recently, issue remained.

my current stable situation seems to be with a default profile in Ryzen Master ( Default / OC / Auto tab in "easy" mode) (it won't boost past ~4.8GHz ish)
running bios F35 on my x570 Aorus Elite (as im writing this i see F36c available) hesitant to recommend a Bios upgrade, as it is not 0% Risk, so you might want to get help with that if not 100% confident. RAM = coupled mode, my 3800 DDR4 sticks are set to 3600 to match the CPU FCLK 1800 (you can check this in Ryzen master)


my game has been running since late Sunday as of this moment (my Energy company absolutely loves me :) )

i still want to OC at some point and get the most out of the system, but right now it is just too unreliable for daily, prolonged, use. ryzen 5000 is pretty complex, if you want, you can have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/k ... bo_got_me/ fairly detailed info for properly setting PPT/TDC/EDC. (TLDR; lowered voltage will result in higher clocks)
I was just about to install a dual boot Linux Mint to test so think you've saved me some time there. Thank you :)

I'll double check the the Ryzen settings, if memory serves I initially had an issue with temp control on the CPU as it constantly tried to boost. The only profiles I have are creator/game and one I made when trying to cure the temp issue. I could pick game and default which should stop any overclocking right?

Bit scared to do a BIOS Upgrade, superstitious more than anything!

Tempest
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue, 11. Dec 18, 12:23
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Devs on the case.

Post by Tempest » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 19:25

SteelCityColt wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 16:40
Tempest wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 15:05
Hi @ OP,

we have somewhat identical machines.

i had occasional CTD's (not at frequent as yours though it seems)

been experimenting the last few days with Linux, and it has the same problem, reverted back to windows 10 again recently, issue remained.

my current stable situation seems to be with a default profile in Ryzen Master ( Default / OC / Auto tab in "easy" mode) (it won't boost past ~4.8GHz ish)
running bios F35 on my x570 Aorus Elite (as im writing this i see F36c available) hesitant to recommend a Bios upgrade, as it is not 0% Risk, so you might want to get help with that if not 100% confident. RAM = coupled mode, my 3800 DDR4 sticks are set to 3600 to match the CPU FCLK 1800 (you can check this in Ryzen master)


my game has been running since late Sunday as of this moment (my Energy company absolutely loves me :) )

i still want to OC at some point and get the most out of the system, but right now it is just too unreliable for daily, prolonged, use. ryzen 5000 is pretty complex, if you want, you can have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/k ... bo_got_me/ fairly detailed info for properly setting PPT/TDC/EDC. (TLDR; lowered voltage will result in higher clocks)
I was just about to install a dual boot Linux Mint to test so think you've saved me some time there. Thank you :)

I'll double check the the Ryzen settings, if memory serves I initially had an issue with temp control on the CPU as it constantly tried to boost. The only profiles I have are creator/game and one I made when trying to cure the temp issue. I could pick game and default which should stop any overclocking right?

Bit scared to do a BIOS Upgrade, superstitious more than anything!
Yeah. leave the BIOS alone if not comfortable.

As you said it's mostly superstition (long ago, i always imagined myself tripping over a power cable accidentally mid-flash) but it's not rocket-science, and "our" boards have a fail-safe should something result in a no-boot/POST scenario (you can flash these boards via USB with only a PSU attached)

the local computer store (if there are any left) would likely charge something for a bios flash (unless you bought all your parts there, perhaps)



You already came across your page-file settings if you ticked that "auto manage", it is the same page. the auto setting ~4000MB feels default for 32GB ram, swap file settings are a bit of an ongoing debate, i like to leave it on auto myself, that seems the way software developers prefer it anyways (have something. instead of turning it off completely) normal scenario you would see 8GB something for a freshly started windows running nothing especially heavy. You could also easily tap CTRL+ALT+DEL , taskmanager , memory, and read the "live" settings there.
AMD 5800X|Gskill 4x8GB 3800C14 (MCLK:1800 for Coupled mode)|Gigabyte X570 Elite F37|TUF3080|Samsung NVME 980 Pro 250|ASUS PG279QE 2560x1440@144
Image

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Devs on the case.

Post by SteelCityColt » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 22:02

I've done some more poking but no real progress. Oddly enough I was somewhat mistaken about the overclocking situation in that the CPU was slightly underclocked. I've reset all settings via Ryzen Master to default.

Kept on an eye on Task Manager during play and it's not maxing anything out. RAM usage is circa 10GB, GPU gets up to around 50%, CPU about 40%.

I also managed to get a slightly different error message:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuxunI ... sp=sharing

Latest dump file that generate that error message:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12CofTE ... sp=sharing

I've now rolled back to 4.0 and got a fairly long session (circa a hour) before crashing out with the same message as above. However it didn't generate a dump file?

There doesn't seem to be any trigger for it. Sometimes it's in combat, sometimes just sat in the pause menu. Sometimes it crashes within a second of loading, other times I get a false sense all is well and then it crashes again.

timon37
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri, 14. Dec 12, 11:02
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop - Devs on the case.

Post by timon37 » Thu, 23. Sep 21, 13:01

Hmmm, if you're not comfortable with this please don't do it but:

Probably the TDR timeout is what's causing the lost-device, however we can't be sure without changing one registry entry.
Specifically the TdrDelay https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... istry-keys
Using regedit change it to 9 (feel free to ask for more detailed instructions if you need them).
Then restart and play the game.

There are 2 possible outcomes of this:
1. everything works fine though sometimes (as often/rarely as the crashes) you may have the game/os hiccup for 2-9 seconds.
2. at some point everything will hang for about 9 seconds and afterwards you'll get the lost-device crash

Panos
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat, 25. Oct 08, 00:48
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by Panos » Thu, 23. Sep 21, 15:24

SteelCityColt wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 11:21
CBJ wrote:
Sun, 19. Sep 21, 20:40
The dump file indicates a "lost device" error. There can be a variety of causes for this, but one of the most common is overclocking resulting in Vulkan losing contact with the hardware. Is any part of your system overclocked? If so then please try without the overclock.
When you say a variety of causes, would using a riser potentially be one?
Is your riser cable pcie 4.0 certified or 3.0 certified?
If you do not know, go to BIOS set the PCIe to 3.0 not 4.0 or Auto. See how things going.

SteelCityColt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 17:12
x3ap

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by SteelCityColt » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:32

Panos wrote:
Thu, 23. Sep 21, 15:24
SteelCityColt wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 11:21
CBJ wrote:
Sun, 19. Sep 21, 20:40
The dump file indicates a "lost device" error. There can be a variety of causes for this, but one of the most common is overclocking resulting in Vulkan losing contact with the hardware. Is any part of your system overclocked? If so then please try without the overclock.
When you say a variety of causes, would using a riser potentially be one?
Is your riser cable pcie 4.0 certified or 3.0 certified?
If you do not know, go to BIOS set the PCIe to 3.0 not 4.0 or Auto. See how things going.
Bingpot! I think we have it. You're right in that the riser is only 3.0 and the MOBO was auto selecting PCI 4.0. Manually set to 3.0 and no crashes since. I managed a solid 3 hours of gameplay which is by the longest so far. Next time I drain my loop to clean I'll take the riser out.

Thank you everyone for your help. It's also forced me into getting round to updating my MOBO BIOS and getting rid of an underclock on the CPU so wins all round :D

Panos
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat, 25. Oct 08, 00:48
x4

Re: [4.1] Constant Crashes to Desktop

Post by Panos » Sat, 25. Sep 21, 18:13

SteelCityColt wrote:
Sat, 25. Sep 21, 09:32
Panos wrote:
Thu, 23. Sep 21, 15:24
SteelCityColt wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 11:21


When you say a variety of causes, would using a riser potentially be one?
Is your riser cable pcie 4.0 certified or 3.0 certified?
If you do not know, go to BIOS set the PCIe to 3.0 not 4.0 or Auto. See how things going.
Bingpot! I think we have it. You're right in that the riser is only 3.0 and the MOBO was auto selecting PCI 4.0. Manually set to 3.0 and no crashes since. I managed a solid 3 hours of gameplay which is by the longest so far. Next time I drain my loop to clean I'll take the riser out.

Thank you everyone for your help. It's also forced me into getting round to updating my MOBO BIOS and getting rid of an underclock on the CPU so wins all round :D
You are welcome :)
Is common issue when riser cables are mentioned since pcie4.0 became standard.

If you had said you get just black screens only and not total disconnect, would have asked to look at the DP/HDMI cables. You need DP 1.4 or HDMI 2.0 rated cables these days. Those cheap crap DP1.1 and HDMI 1.x coming with the monitors are causing issues at high resolutions and when Freesync/Gsync is used :D

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations - Technical Support”