4.0HF3: Turrets not attacking hostiles - Fix in a future build.

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Alkeena
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4.0HF3: Turrets not attacking hostiles - Fix in a future build.

Post by Alkeena » Fri, 14. May 21, 15:50

Hey, figured it might be worthwhile to cross-post this discussion just in case it's not intended behavior.

Basically turrets set to anything but attack all enemies won't consistently attack hostile targets unless you've been attacked by that target (so they basically act in defense mode). Here's a video demonstrating the issue (as well as a workaround-setting a single turret to attack all enemies): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg2BKdrrOc0

If this isn't intended behavior then I can try to get a vanilla savegame together, it will just take some time...let me know if it's necessary.

Original discussion: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=438729&p=5053830#p5053830
jlehtone wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 13:57
Main guns of destroyer focus on target (as much as gimbal allows), when I target small ship, surface element, or station module.
Main guns of destroyer point forward -- no focus, if I target capital ship. Did they do that before 4.0?


I set L Plasma turret to "Attack Capitals" on personal ship. There is hostile capital in range, in view, and even targeted. No action unless the enemy hits us. Like turret was running "Defend".

I set L Plasma turret to "Attack my current target" on personal ship.
* I target surface element. Turrets shoot
* I target the capital ship. Turrets do not shoot

The "Attack all enemies" still fires freely. I have used "Attack all" most of the time, so can't tell whether the other commands were "lazy" before.
I saw "Fixed ..." entries in 3.xx (or earlier) Changelogs. Still incomplete?
...
Alkeena wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 15:34
I've seen this behavior as well when I was testing the turret components of my subsystem targeting mod. It's vanilla behavior and baked into the executable--it presents even if I have all my mods disabled.

I think what might be happening is the turret commands are respecting the normal standings spectrum internally. Meaning it won't shoot hostile warships until standings are -16 and won't shoot hostile civilian ships until standings are -21. I say this because if I recall setting the target hostile via the right click menu or getting shot by the target would get the guns firing--both of those actions effectively alter temporary standings under the hood.

(I say "if I recall" because I last played around with it closely basically right as 4.0 released and since then have been at war with the entire universe, so I could be misremembering)
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Alkeena wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 15:39
Raptor34 wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 15:36
That makes sense, but shouldn't the enemy be respecting relations too?
Also from working under the hood for subsystem targeting: non-player owned ships use a separate catchall command that is not accessible to the player. It's assigned to ALL non-player turrets and acts like attack all enemies but with a bit more logic to attempt to assign appropriate turrets to appropriate targets.

Given it's similarity to attack all enemies I would guess it inherits whatever bypass is keeping attack all enemies working as well.

(coincidentally this is why non-player missile defense still works while the player missile defense is currently broken -- they're two different scripts under the hood)
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Alkeena wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 16:58
jlehtone wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 16:14
KextV8 wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 15:18
Are you running any mods?
Vanilla 4.0 HF3 (nosteam.exe)
Alkeena wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 15:34
I think what might be happening is the turret commands are respecting the normal standings spectrum internally. Meaning it won't shoot hostile warships until standings are -16 and won't shoot hostile civilian ships until standings are -21.
My standing with said "hostile target" faction is -30. That is what you get when you either kill or board every single wave of TER Intervention Corps day in and day out. :twisted:
So I just went back and re-tested because these sorts of things bug me. You're right that it's not standings related. I did discover, however, that if a single turret is set to attack all enemies the other turrets will work as well.

Here's a quick demonstration video (just posted so HD is still processing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg2BKdrrOc0
Last edited by Alkeena on Fri, 14. May 21, 17:25, edited 1 time in total.

Alkeena
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Re: 4.0HF3: Turrets not attacking hostiles

Post by Alkeena » Fri, 14. May 21, 17:24

I updated the original post repeatedly via edits; just wanted to let anyone that might be tracking this that it's changed.
  • Updated header text w/ description and video of the issue
  • Added final blockquote

CBJ
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Re: 4.0HF3: Turrets not attacking hostiles

Post by CBJ » Fri, 14. May 21, 17:27

Alkeena wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 15:50
If this isn't intended behavior then I can try to get a vanilla savegame together, it will just take some time...let me know if it's necessary.
With a complex game such as this it's hard to tell whether or not something is intended without a savegame, so please do. :)

jlehtone
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Re: 4.0HF3: Turrets not attacking hostiles

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 14. May 21, 18:14

Save from vanilla 4.0 HF3, nosteam.exe: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KYI0N ... sp=sharing

* Player Rattlesnake is approaching hostile Okinawa. Okinawa is about to accelerate away (to right).
* Front L turrets have "Attack Capitals", other turrets "Attack fighters"
* Front L turrets do not shoot at Okinawa, once in range

* If any M turret is changed to "Attack all", then front L turrets do shoot
* If Okinawa hits Rattlesnake, then front L turrets start to shoot
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j.harshaw
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Re: 4.0HF3: Turrets not attacking hostiles

Post by j.harshaw » Mon, 17. May 21, 13:51

Thanks for the report. The save with steps was of particular help. Fixed in a future update.

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