X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Ask here if you experience technical problems with X4: Foundations.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by alt3rn1ty » Sat, 4. Jul 20, 00:58

Something new to Win 10 2004 - Requires latest Graphics drivers installed (NVidia or AMD)

Quote from here https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comment ... iscussion/
Driver performance testing

There is a lot to chew up here. The driver itself, when compared to the previous one on the same Windows platform (apples-to-apples so to speak), is not bad at all. Except for a slight loss on Wildlands lower Frame Times, the rest of the metrics are either stable or a bit better than with 446.14. No issues here. But still doesn't catch up with 442.59.

The big feature of this new driver is, of course, the support for WDDM 2.7 and the new Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling (HAGS for short). This feature allows your graphics card to manage its own video memory (VRAM) instead of the operating system. This should improve latency and response times, but also frees up some CPU computing power, in exchange of a bit higher GPU usage. As such, results of this new feature are very CPU/GPU dependant, along with the tested game itself. On CPU limited configurations, and/or CPU hungry games like Wildlands or FC5 (usually DX11 games) the new feature may squeeze some extra performance from your computer. On Dx12/Vulkan games (which are usually much less CPU limited), the new feature seems not that useful.

Arkham Knigth is the black sheep here. Previous reports of HAGS disliking a lot PhysX games seem true, and nVidia driver team has not been able to fix that incompatibility. This game lose a huge chunk of performance with 451.48, and what is worse, it is choppy as hell with heavy stutters.



My recommendation:

If you haven't upgraded your Windows 10 yet to v2004, there are no performance reasons to upgrade. Unless you need some specific bug fixed, 442.59 is still performing a bit better.

If you already have the new Windows 10 v2004 May Update installed, then you should probably upgrade to the new driver (and remember to manually enable HAGS, as it's disabled by default). On DX11 games or if your PC have some CPU bottleneck issues this will probably increase the performance of your games, both in raw framerate and with less stuttering. On the other hand, DX12/Vulkan games won't probably see much improvement though (if any).

Just be aware that HAGS is a new feature, and as such is expected to still have some bugs. If you use this feature, remember to disable as much Gameworks/PhysX options as possible on any game that use them, like Arkham Knight.
------------------------------------------

X4 being a CPU centric game, and using Vulkan, should benefit.

To set HAGS in Win 10 2004 see screenshot .. https://i.imgur.com/0OzT1q7.png

The latest NVidia driver at time of writing v451.48 includes now the updated Vulkan 1.2

YMMV

Also note in the screenshot, if you browse and add game executables to the Graphics Performance list, you can then click them and set High Performance.
I believe this is supposed to be hooked into Windows Focus assist too, which will make windows cool its activities when playing a game.
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by alpha_one_x86 » Tue, 7. Jul 20, 00:27

Changing savegame forma from XML to binary, it's 30x faster, I presume it have lot of bad code like this.
The poor performance on HDD is due to bad data locality far I can see, then resources format improvement will help this.

PS: I have buy GoG version, thanks to publish it on GoG
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Imperial Good » Thu, 30. Jul 20, 19:07

alt3rn1ty wrote:
Sat, 4. Jul 20, 00:58
Requires latest Graphics drivers installed (NVidia or AMD)
It also requires a compatible GPU to take advantage of. From Nvidia only GeForce 10, 16 and RTX 20 cards support this as far as I am aware. I think only the last 2 generations of AMD cards support this as well.
alt3rn1ty wrote:
Sat, 4. Jul 20, 00:58
Also note in the screenshot, if you browse and add game executables to the Graphics Performance list, you can then click them and set High Performance.
I believe this is supposed to be hooked into Windows Focus assist too, which will make windows cool its activities when playing a game.
I think what it does is change the GPU time splicing priority of the application. High performance applications will take preference over lower performance ones and hence get allocated more GPU time. That is what GPU scheduling is all about.

After looking at it more closely, it just seems to resolve which GPU the application will run on in systems with an integrated GPU intended for use when running on battery and a discrete GPU for performance. For example it can force an application to run on the discrete GPU even when on battery. This likely does not affect X4 due to how the Vulkan API works.
alpha_one_x86 wrote:
Tue, 7. Jul 20, 00:27
Changing savegame forma from XML to binary, it's 30x faster, I presume it have lot of bad code like this.
X4 does not support binary saves. Binary saves would not be much faster since the bottleneck is not XML generation but rather data gathering. The same applies when loading where it is not XML parsing but rather how fast the data graph can be rebuilt. Even compression should not make much of a difference if it is executed in parallel.
alpha_one_x86 wrote:
Tue, 7. Jul 20, 00:27
The poor performance on HDD is due to bad data locality far I can see, then resources format improvement will help this.
This is pointless given that practically every modern gamer should be running their games off a SSD. No amount of archive format improvements and defragmentation can make up for the fact that a HDD is inherently very slow both in terms of seek time and read speed compared to a reasonably modern SSD.

A single 512 GB PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSD like those from Samsung can average over 2.3 GB/sec of ready to use game data accessed randomly while not even reporting activity above 75% or response times higher than 1ms. This is real-life measured speed with my own code when decompressing all the data files from Warcraft III: Reforged. The main problem is that currently few games are designed to actually use such fast read speeds since it is technically challenging to process or even need so much data.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by alt3rn1ty » Fri, 31. Jul 20, 09:06

Imperial Good wrote:
Thu, 30. Jul 20, 19:07
alt3rn1ty wrote:
Sat, 4. Jul 20, 00:58
Also note in the screenshot, if you browse and add game executables to the Graphics Performance list, you can then click them and set High Performance.
I believe this is supposed to be hooked into Windows Focus assist too, which will make windows cool its activities when playing a game.
I think what it does is change the GPU time splicing priority of the application. High performance applications will take preference over lower performance ones and hence get allocated more GPU time. That is what GPU scheduling is all about.
No, adding game executables to the Graphics Performance List was a thing on Win 10 long before GPU Scheduling was added to that part of windows 10 settings.
Aswell as ensuring on laptops that a game exe will use the High Performance GPU (so long as you set it after adding the game to the list) instead of the Intel Integrated GPU, Its tied in with windows focus assist .. I cant put my mouse on a microsoft post I read quite a while ago but its to help windows determine if a game is running (in whatever window / screen mode): By adding the exe of the game to that list you can be sure windows focus assist will cut down on background services interrupting your games performance - Without doing this in some cases focus assist may not recognise a game is running.
Some people turn off Focus assist in win 10, but for gamers its a good thing to have enabled.
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 31. Jul 20, 17:22

alt3rn1ty wrote:
Fri, 31. Jul 20, 09:06
No, adding game executables to the Graphics Performance List was a thing on Win 10 long before GPU Scheduling was added to that part of windows 10 settings.
Sorry I mistook the feature. All the feature does is select which GPU the application will run on. This is intended for laptops and systems running with both discrete and integrated graphic accelerators. It is intended to allow some applications to run on the discrete GPU for better performance while a laptop is running from battery so usually preferring to use the integrated GPU.

Due to Vulkan API requiring that a GPU be explicitly selected, I do not imagine it affecting X4.
alt3rn1ty wrote:
Fri, 31. Jul 20, 09:06
Its tied in with windows focus assist .. I cant put my mouse on a microsoft post I read quite a while ago but its to help windows determine if a game is running (in whatever window / screen mode): By adding the exe of the game to that list you can be sure windows focus assist will cut down on background services interrupting your games performance - Without doing this in some cases focus assist may not recognise a game is running.
Some people turn off Focus assist in win 10, but for gamers its a good thing to have enabled.
From what I can tell, focus assist does not affect computer performance at all. It just stops notifications from interrupting the user. Hence the name "focus assist" since it helps the user focus more. Windows should still process all notifications, just that they will not be shown to the user.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by alt3rn1ty » Fri, 31. Jul 20, 20:00

Thats what I thought about focus assist too when first reading about it, but I found a link on reddit which led to a post on a Microsoft site where an MVP described it doing more than just limiting notifications .. Wish I could find it again. Oh well, will get back if I ever find it again. Going back in my box :)
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Xkuka » Tue, 4. Aug 20, 16:06

Interesting topic. But its weird that a CPU heavy game is not actually using my CPU. I have an old I5 3570k @stock and CPU usage is about 50-60% on all cores, while the frames are about 20-60 fps depending on the system or activity. On my old System is the CPU clearly the bottleneck in many cases, since i once upgraded the GPU (GTX 760 to 980). And for some games, it helps to improve performance in maxing out graphic settings to get the least workload on CPU side (GTA5 as example, best results with ultra settings, anything lower and FPS decrease. In this case CPU load is always 100% no matter what^^). But this is not working with X4. I would love to find a way to actually use the power of my CPU, and it can take some load, i got a big cooler and with prime95 running it stays at 60° consistently.
My system specs:
I5 3570k stock
16GB DDR3 2400mhz
GTX980
Systemdrive 250GB Samsung Evo basic SSD
Gamesdrive 1TB Crucial mx500 SSD
Resolution FHD

So in general the game isn't running too bad but not quite well either. CPU is never fully used, and the average RAM used while playing X4 is 6GB (got mostly 6GB free). I tried different graphic settings but it seems to me those have no effect on performance (last config ultra, no difference to previous used medium to high setting). And most sad thing is, as soon as i start using some mods like Rise of the Ossian Raider, which does not actually rise the usage of my hardware, but significantly drop the game performance and make it unenjoyable even in early game.
Does have anyone similar experience and found a way to make full use of CPU performance?
***Never not modified***
Specs: I9 9900k, 32GB DDR4, ASUS RTX2060 12GB, Sys drive: 1TB Nvme SSD, Games drive: 1TB Nvme SSD, Win10 pro 21H2

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by CBJ » Tue, 4. Aug 20, 16:51

We've been looking into these reports recently, just to check our suspicions, and can state with some confidence that the CPU utilisation numbers you're seeing are misleading. The game fully utilises one at least core during any given frame, and usually uses at least one more pretty heavily. Other cores are used less heavily. The reason you see lower utilisation numbers with most external tools is that the busiest thread is assigned to different cores during different frame cycles, so over the sampling period those tools use, any given core is sometimes running that busiest thread and sometimes not.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Xkuka » Tue, 4. Aug 20, 22:01

Thats an interesting statement there. I actually use only task manager and on my recent configuration and have no additional tools installed for monitoring performance. After 8 years using this mashine i have no need for all that toys to play with. There is no overclocking, unfortunately the CPU has a fault that makes it impossible without fixed power loads. But otherwise it runs very reliably and on stock values it does as supposed.
But for curiosity, is there a monitoring tool you could suggest that displays the utilisation of the CPU any better than task manager?
When i'm at home again on the weekend i will try to assign the game to just one or two cores and rise the refresh rate of task manager and see what happens. If the threads are just switching cores to quickly to be displayed, this should actually make it possible to catch the thief. :mrgreen:

/edit: note to myself: don't forget to disable the onboard sound device. :idea:
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Berni » Sun, 9. Aug 20, 15:19

alpha_one_x86 wrote:
Tue, 7. Jul 20, 00:27
Changing savegame forma from XML to binary, it's 30x faster, I presume it have lot of bad code like this.
The poor performance on HDD is due to bad data locality far I can see, then resources format improvement will help this.

PS: I have buy GoG version, thanks to publish it on GoG
care to explain how you can change your savegames from xml to binary?

or is this just a suggestion to the Egosoft devs?

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by CBJ » Sun, 9. Aug 20, 15:46

It was a "suggestion", but we've explained on any number of occasions why it's neither practical nor particularly relevant. The time taken to load and save has very little to do with the file format.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by -=SiR KiLLaLoT=- » Fri, 21. Aug 20, 19:50

I changed CPU a few days ago... I went from an i7-6700k to an i9-9900k.

The previous CPU worked at 4.2 ghz, while the new one normally runs at 4.8 and then reaches 5.0 on the single processor.
I have always used the main menu of the game as a sort of "benchmark" and, keeping the exact same settings, I went from 76 to 81 fps thanks only to the higher frequency of the CPU.
In a 600 hour playtrough I have seen much improved performance, especially when controlling many ships from the map.

I also deactivated 4 physical cores from the bios to see the difference in performance, making the new CPU much more similar to the old one (both 4 core 8 threads), and the loss was only 1 fps.

So from my experience I can confirm that the higher CPU frequency gives quite a tangible advantage.
HW Spec:
CPU: Core i9 9900k @ 5.0Ghz - MOBO: MSI Z390-A PRO - RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix MAX DDR4 4400Mhz CL19 - GPU: nVidia RTX 3070 FE - M.2: Samsung 980 512GB - SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - Sandisk Plus 240GB – HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB – WD Caviar Blue 1TB – WD Caviar Black 2TB - PSU: Enermax Liberty 82+ PRO 620w - CASE: iTek Iron Soldier - MONITOR: 27” Acer ED270UP - Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - KEYBOARD: Logitech G11 – MOUSE: Red Dragon Perdition
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 21. Aug 20, 20:18

-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote:
Fri, 21. Aug 20, 19:50
So from my experience I can confirm that the higher CPU frequency gives quite a tangible advantage.
Was the 9900k using the same memory as the i7-6700k? If not then there are two variables. It has already been proven that memory speed is a lot more important than clock speed when it comes to X4 on modern CPU architectures.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by -=SiR KiLLaLoT=- » Sat, 22. Aug 20, 02:47

Imperial Good wrote:
Fri, 21. Aug 20, 20:18
-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote:
Fri, 21. Aug 20, 19:50
So from my experience I can confirm that the higher CPU frequency gives quite a tangible advantage.
Was the 9900k using the same memory as the i7-6700k? If not then there are two variables. It has already been proven that memory speed is a lot more important than clock speed when it comes to X4 on modern CPU architectures.
I actually forgot to mention the memory change. The manufacturer, model and quantity are the same, but the frequency has changed from 2400 to 3200mhz (XPM mode active)
Could this be the real reason for the change?
HW Spec:
CPU: Core i9 9900k @ 5.0Ghz - MOBO: MSI Z390-A PRO - RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix MAX DDR4 4400Mhz CL19 - GPU: nVidia RTX 3070 FE - M.2: Samsung 980 512GB - SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - Sandisk Plus 240GB – HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB – WD Caviar Blue 1TB – WD Caviar Black 2TB - PSU: Enermax Liberty 82+ PRO 620w - CASE: iTek Iron Soldier - MONITOR: 27” Acer ED270UP - Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - KEYBOARD: Logitech G11 – MOUSE: Red Dragon Perdition
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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 22. Aug 20, 07:25

-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote:
Sat, 22. Aug 20, 02:47
Could this be the real reason for the change?
Yes, most of the performance gains could be from that alone.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Gavrushka » Tue, 8. Sep 20, 09:12

Just a silly question which, after reading this thread, I'm still not sure whether impacts the performance of my game. - I use a mechanical hard drive, and accept that leads to slow load and save times, but does it also impact the performance in-game? I guess gubbins must be loaded from the disc at some point, but if there is an impact, how big is it?

And as I'm due to replace my PC (8th generation I7 8700) with a 10th generation I9, what is the likely bottleneck I need to watch out for in speccing such a system? (I intend to buy from Palicomp.)

I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post, but I'm reckoning it's a technical question, and I could sure do with a little support.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by CBJ » Tue, 8. Sep 20, 10:15

Gavrushka wrote:
Tue, 8. Sep 20, 09:12
Just a silly question which, after reading this thread, I'm still not sure whether impacts the performance of my game. - I use a mechanical hard drive, and accept that leads to slow load and save times, but does it also impact the performance in-game? I guess gubbins must be loaded from the disc at some point, but if there is an impact, how big is it?
It shouldn't affect performance in general, but it may mean the occasional stutter and/or assets "popping" in occasionally, especially when you enter a new area. Note that we're working on improvements that should reduce the latter.
Gavrushka wrote:
Tue, 8. Sep 20, 09:12
And as I'm due to replace my PC (8th generation I7 8700) with a 10th generation I9, what is the likely bottleneck I need to watch out for in speccing such a system? (I intend to buy from Palicomp.)

I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post, but I'm reckoning it's a technical question, and I could sure do with a little support.
It's not; hardware recommendations belong in the off-topic forum. But as a simple answer, raw CPU core speed is more important than number of cores, and it should be paired with fast memory if possible.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by BloodHunter2004 » Sat, 10. Oct 20, 17:46

Imperial Good wrote:
Fri, 21. Aug 20, 20:18
It has already been proven that memory speed is a lot more important than clock speed when it comes to X4 on modern CPU architectures.
I am wondering if there are any hard facts / benchmarks for this statement? Currently I have a Ryzen 3600xt with 64gb DDR4-3200 CL16 and wondering how much more performance i could get out of faster ram with better timings? The map is quite laggy when a lot is going on.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 11. Oct 20, 00:24

Gavrushka wrote:
Tue, 8. Sep 20, 09:12
Just a silly question which, after reading this thread, I'm still not sure whether impacts the performance of my game. - I use a mechanical hard drive, and accept that leads to slow load and save times, but does it also impact the performance in-game? I guess gubbins must be loaded from the disc at some point, but if there is an impact, how big is it?
SSD does not make much of a difference with save/load times. Most of the difference is with frame rate consistency and pop-in due to shorter asset stalls. Most noticeable when entering sectors at a high speed (when game cannot pre-load) and when teleporting.

This aspect might see improvement in future versions. However some of these benefits may be more significant on SSD based systems.
BloodHunter2004 wrote:
Sat, 10. Oct 20, 17:46
ondering if there are any hard facts / benchmarks for this statement? Currently I have a Ryzen 3600xt with 64gb DDR4-3200 CL16 and wondering how much more performance i could get out of faster ram with better timings? The map is quite laggy when a lot is going on.
People have posted their frame rates of the same scene at various memory settings. Most of the tests were done on Intel which showed timings and memory speed mattered a lot more than overclocking core clocks. I recall some were also done with Zen2 CPUs (Ryzen 3000 series desktop) showing similar gains from tightened memory timings after using Ryzen DRAM calculator. In any case the performance between a Ryzen 5 3600 and Ryzen 9 3950X will be small and dominated by memory performance.

If you already have memory it is not worth getting new memory as you will be paying full price for a smallish differential gain. This is more something for people making new build systems to consider since a little more or a correct choice at the same price could yield a few more percent performance.

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Re: X4 Performance Troubleshooting Suggestions

Post by Gavrushka » Sun, 11. Oct 20, 08:17

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 11. Oct 20, 00:24
Gavrushka wrote:
Tue, 8. Sep 20, 09:12
Just a silly question which, after reading this thread, I'm still not sure whether impacts the performance of my game. - I use a mechanical hard drive, and accept that leads to slow load and save times, but does it also impact the performance in-game? I guess gubbins must be loaded from the disc at some point, but if there is an impact, how big is it?
SSD does not make much of a difference with save/load times. Most of the difference is with frame rate consistency and pop-in due to shorter asset stalls. Most noticeable when entering sectors at a high speed (when game cannot pre-load) and when teleporting.

This aspect might see improvement in future versions. However some of these benefits may be more significant on SSD based systems.
Teleporting does cause me a 3-5 second grumble, but that's something I've always expected. - Is there also an 'asset stall' when approaching stations, as that is a far more pervasive and irritating stutter? Even though I'd reported the issue many times back in the early days, I don't recall it ever being answered definitively? (I remember there were performance issues around using GPU sound facilities, and made the suggested changes, but the problem has always been there when approaching to dock.)
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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