Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

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KalisaFox
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Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by KalisaFox » Wed, 7. Jun 23, 22:54

I know you dont need cargo drones for trading as long as the station has them, but do ships even use more then 1 cargo drone if trading with someone that has no drones? i only seem to ever see 1 drone active for that ship, does more just function as backup or is it a passive effect to increase the speed of the trade?

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KextV8
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by KextV8 » Wed, 7. Jun 23, 23:05

0. Because they try to go collect loot drops and lead to bad AI waiting for drone behavior.

KalisaFox
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by KalisaFox » Wed, 7. Jun 23, 23:11

KextV8 wrote:
Wed, 7. Jun 23, 23:05
0. Because they try to go collect loot drops and lead to bad AI waiting for drone behavior.
this is why i tend to keep them set to collect marked only, or disabled, even disabled they seem to still use them in trading

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by GCU Grey Area » Wed, 7. Jun 23, 23:16

I give my L freighters 6 cargo drones each, along with 4 repair drones (although the latter is largely a holdover from when explosive asteroids were rather abundant). Sometimes more than one drone is required to move the cargo of an L freighter, a newly built station may not yet have it's full complement of drones & they're also essential in order to trade with build storage.

KalisaFox
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by KalisaFox » Wed, 7. Jun 23, 23:18

is there any information anywhere to know what the optimal amount is, i assume it would be based on cargo capacity being moved, like say 1 drone moves 5k at a time or something?
i just notice my erlking with its large cargo hold never seems to use more then 1, i guess i could do more testing and see, timing exactly how long it takes to load and unload a full cargo with different amounts of drones.

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Val Comdriver
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by Val Comdriver » Wed, 7. Jun 23, 23:33

I believe you need at least one to trade with construction storage. And usually I buy two drones to trade with my own stations which are still in the process of building their own drones.
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Admiral Sausage
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by Admiral Sausage » Thu, 8. Jun 23, 20:20

I just tried doing a trade with the Erlking, on which I put 5 cargo drones, transfering wares in both directions with a station that has its own cargo drones. Zooming in on the map (while standing on the ship, otherwise the drones are not visible), I saw all 5 of the Erlking's cargo drones pop out of its nose, and a further 10 cargo drones simultaneously emerge from the station. All the drones made one round trip each.

I then removed the cargo drones from the Erlking (tricky, since you can't just dump them into space like normal wares) and tried again. This time, I saw a single cargo drone travel from the station to the ship to take wares from ship -> station (clearly 5 weren't needed for this the first time, and were only sent so they could get cargo from the station). Only after that drone had finished did I see 14 further drones emerge to take wares from station -> ship.

So, at least in the case where wares are transferred in both directions at once, it's faster if both the station and the ship have their own drones. Furthermore, a ship with a cargo hold the size of the Erlking needs up to 14 drones to fill it in one round trip.

blackphoenixx
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by blackphoenixx » Thu, 8. Jun 23, 21:56

It's 4000m³ of cargo per drone. So for traders and supply ships you ideally want 1 cargo drone per 4000m³ of cargo space to always transfer wares as fast as possible.
For L miners the optimal amount is 0 because less mining drones means slower mining. It's not worth permanently crippling your income on the off-chance that the buyer has a pier but no drones.
Combat ships generally do fine with 0 (or 1 if you really feel the need, but it doesn't come up often in my experience).

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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 8. Jun 23, 23:37

I give my fight capitals just 1 cargodrone each so that they can always exchange wares/deployables with a ship that cannot dock with them, and so that I can remotely ask them to pick up nice nearby loot drops that they might have caused that I fancy keeping without having to teleport aboard and vacuum them all up nor need to send another ship instead.
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by CulunTse » Fri, 9. Jun 23, 09:48

I pick 5 cargo drones for my L traders, and ensure my stations have at least 5 per docking slip (e.g. 15 per E-dock).
Combat L ships get 0,1,2 depending on my mood at the time. (I prefer repair drones and defence drones there, but I do like when they collect drops).
L-miners get 0 cargo drones if I assign them to my own stations (put them on the station instead, to maximize mining drones) , and 2 for unassigned autominers, so they don't fail their to trade with drone-less AI stations.

I'm not sure about the low-attention mechanics, but my own experiences while being present match what Admiral Sausage saw with the Erlking.
After docking, cargo drones will automatically, and simultaneously, come from both ends, and keep going back and forth until all stuff is transferred.
At the end there is one final round where the empty drones return to their starting side. (Those sneaky Teladi stations are always trying to "accidentally" keep my brand new drones on their side, leaving me their battered old drones, but I'm not falling for it!)

I actually enjoy observing this (external cam!) when I ride along with my captains, it immerses me, and the small details like this really hammer home how BIG my empire is.
On that note, I can also recommend a space-suit excursion through a hull-plate fab. Look at all those conveyor belts and welding arms!

adeine
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by adeine » Fri, 9. Jun 23, 14:47

For AI ships I generally give miners 2 cargo drones and 8 collection/mining drones and transports 8 cargo drones and 2 repair drones.

I might give combat ships repair drones, but sometimes I forget to disable them before I am in sector with them or fly them personally. Very good way to either get stuck on the drone as it launches or have AI pilots get separated from the drones and wait for subordinates indefinitely. It's safest just to not give combat ships drones at all.

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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 9. Jun 23, 14:51

".. but sometimes I forget to disable them [repair drones] before I am in sector with them ..." How do you disable them anyway (in vanilla)?
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Imperial Good
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 9. Jun 23, 15:17

My personal recommendations...
  • L miners -> 0 cargo drones. Rely on my stations to provide all cargo drones. This allows them to go full mining drones which gives optimal mining speed. If you really want cargo drones on your miners, such as if they trade with NPCs, then you will want at most 1, with the rest being mining drones to get as close to optimal mining speed as possible. If you want a repair drone on your miners, then again, only 1, more mining drones is better.
  • L destroyers -> 0 cargo drones. Maximum repair drones so that any damage they take is hammered out as soon as possible. Instead of defence drones, rather use S fight ships.
  • L traders -> 9 cargo drones, 1 repair drone. Technically 9 cargo drones is probably excessive as they might not all end up used but this is a blanket just work configuration. If going optimal (exactly the number of cargo drones to match ware capacity) then you will want to fill the rest of the drones with defence drones. 1 repair drone is recommended because L traders are prone to pirate attacks, and the drone will help hammer out any dings as a result.
  • L cutter -> 10 build drones. Its only purpose is to cut up stations and larger ships so optimise around that. Could throw in a repair drone if you think it may see combat damage, however this sort of ship should not attract much agro and not be near the front line.
  • XL battleships -> 20 repair drones. Combat heavy ships, hammer out dings as fast as possible, e.t.c.
  • XL carriers -> 19 repair drones, 1 cargo drone. Combat heavy ships so same as above but they also need to take on supplies, so at least 1 cargo drone to service AI L traders which might lack them.
  • XL auxiliary -> 10 repair drones, 10 cargo drones, 80 defence drones. These ships have a silly number of drone slots and should not see heavy combat anyway. Optimised for resupplying, repairing any damage from combat they do see and if they enter combat becoming a drone carrier.
  • XL builder -> 40 construction drones. 10 repair drones, 50 defence drones. Their entire purpose is building so maximise for that. Remaining slots are a balance of self repair if they somehow see damage and being able to act as a drone carrier for self defence.
  • Civilian stations -> 5 cargo drones per L/XL pier. Some larger traders/miners might want more cargo drones but it is unlikely all piers will be used at the same time anyway. 80 construction drones per S/M ship building, 20 per L ship building and 40 per XL ship building. Rest fill with a balance of repair drones and defence drones.
  • Military stations -> 1 cargo drone as these do not see much throughput and only deal with L traders which should already have cargo drones. Rest is filled with a balance between repair drones and defence drones.

KalisaFox
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by KalisaFox » Fri, 9. Jun 23, 15:53

Thanks for all the great responses, ya was just trying to find the best balance for my freighters mostly since i noticed them taking very long times espically with build storages, that 4k cargo per drone i will probably use as a judge most of the time for what i go with on the ships.
Sounds like i was also going really excessive on my stations, was doing 10-20 drones per pier.

adeine
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Re: Effecient amount of cargo drones for ships?

Post by adeine » Fri, 9. Jun 23, 15:56

Alan Phipps wrote:
Fri, 9. Jun 23, 14:51
".. but sometimes I forget to disable them [repair drones] before I am in sector with them ..." How do you disable them anyway (in vanilla)?
True, for repair drones the only trick/way to do so is temporarily giving them to another ship or dump them off at a station in vanilla.

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