I remember you gave sizes of the Paranid capitals once when the E came out. Do you keep like a spreadsheet of those you've already measured?
Ship sizes
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Re: Ship sizes
Your absolutely right. X4 takes some rather insane leaps backwards when it comes to realism. Another great example is seeing how many S and M ships fit inside M/L/XL ships. In many cases even if you disassembled the stored ships, and turned the host ship into nothing but a shell, they wouldn't fit inside it. Hell a few of the frigates are so small that even if you MELTED DOWN the stored ships it'd overflow the shell of the frigate.abisha1980 wrote: ↑Tue, 16. May 23, 06:02the problem is that small ships can do to much it carry to much technology for it's size. warp, weapon, shield generatorsChips wrote: ↑Mon, 15. May 23, 22:40Meanwhile, xenon, Khaak, split, boron, paranid races all legit in comparison - as are weapons and drives and shields and...abisha1980 wrote: ↑Mon, 15. May 23, 21:46but they killing it with S ships to small and stupid to really exist in a real universe.
but small ships size unrealistic. Damn - immersion RUINED!
Yes, mocking, gently
i have that problem with all small ships (star wars)(star trek) stuff that do agree with Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica
I know I tend to sing the praises of VRO a bit too much. But if you want fighters brought down to reality in terms of being overpowered fast moving destroyers like they are in vanilla, I strongly recommend VRO. It brings fighters in-line with how the game SHOULD be balanced by default. Fighters can still destroy capital ships, but now they have to be purpose-fit for the role and you need an appropriate number of them.
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Re: Ship sizes
No, not really. The size of S ships isn't the issue, the design usually is. Too thin, bad positioning of weapons/things, spindly connections, too much wasted space for a military fighter, etc..abisha1980 wrote: ↑Mon, 15. May 23, 21:46what i really like about M ships they give the impression of something that really can exist, but they killing it with S ships to small and stupid to really exist in a real universe.
If you want to talk about size, take a look at the M-size forward cannon and compare them to a fighter.
If anything, if feels like the jumps between sizes are too sudden.
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Re: Ship sizes
So I'm curious, is this due to the way the camera work in X game versus say ... a game like Freespace. 'Cause the Orion or the Hacate feel massively bigger than the Shark even though the Shark is supposed to be twice as long (2000m vs 4000m). Like unless you're really far out, you can't get the whole destroyer into view, but even if snuggle up to the surface of a carrier in X they still feel ... somewhat small?j.harshaw wrote: ↑Tue, 16. May 23, 01:18Rough dimensions, so take this with a grain of salt. Shouldn't vary by much, though.@Chips, what's wrong with small ship sizes?Code: Select all
Width (m) Height (m) Length (m) Stork 992 873 1001 Shark 573 418 3986
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Re: Ship sizes
I've never played Freespace, but I had a hunch and did some Googling. From a modding forum where players ran the game on (relatively) modern hardware:Mightysword wrote: ↑Fri, 19. May 23, 04:07So I'm curious, is this due to the way the camera work in X game versus say ... a game like Freespace. 'Cause the Orion or the Hacate feel massively bigger than the Shark even though the Shark is supposed to be twice as long (2000m vs 4000m). Like unless you're really far out, you can't get the whole destroyer into view, but even if snuggle up to the surface of a carrier in X they still feel ... somewhat small?
Freespace's original and intended FoV during gameplay was 60 degrees, which made objects appear a certain size. Modern display hardware interfered with the game's display parameters and effectively increased the game's FoV. Players complained about ships in game seeming to be too small, despite nothing about the ship models changing.That's because -fov 0.75 in Freespace isn't the same as setting FOV to 75 in other games. Most games have a direct correlation between their FOV settting and the actual Field of View in degrees. In Freespace the default 0.75 FOV is actually something else. It's the vertical angle of view, in radians, multiplied by 1.39626348. for some reason.
First, you'd have to convert 0.75 radians to degrees which would be ~43 degrees.
Next you multiply that by 1.39626348 to get ~60 AoV. How this converts to FoV depends on your monitor's aspect ratio, but let's assume you're using a 16:9 widescreen one. Multiply 60 by (16/9) and you get 106.666...
The default Freespace FOV for a 16:9 monitor is actually ~107 degrees, which is quite high and this is why it causes "fisheye" distortions and makes big ships less impressive.
It just goes to show: raw numbers don't mean much, everything is relative. The sense and experience of physical scale in games is a prime example of this.
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Re: Ship sizes
Uh that's the thing, the ships in Freespace 2 are much more imposing than the ship in X to me, because they appears far bigger (not smaller). I know it's something about PoV, but but I would be interested if there is a way to hack the X4 to have the same PoV. Also FS2 has been continously modded and upgrade over years for modern hardware, it's a game I've beening playing on and off for over the last 20 years and the "shock and awe" of capital ship never really go away.A5PECT wrote: ↑Fri, 19. May 23, 04:59Freespace's original and intended FoV during gameplay was 60 degrees, which made objects appear a certain size. Modern display hardware interfered with the game's display parameters and effectively increased the game's FoV. Players complained about ships in game seeming to be too small, despite nothing about the ship models changing.
It just goes to show: raw numbers don't mean much, everything is relative. The sense and experience of physical scale in games is a prime example of this.
Here is a video examples of the game through out the years with the graphic/engine upgrade by the community. The ship you see exploding between 11:30 to 11:43 is the Orion, and it's supposed to be half the length of the Thresher. (I clipped the timestamp in the vid below)
https://youtu.be/woNv-HJ8dN4?t=692
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Re: Ship sizes
Just for reference here is a video comparing ship's size from various games and movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI
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